To My Liberal Friends

[jlw]

From www.wizbangblog.com

(re: Dems reply to Rove)

You know guys, sometimes life really is simple.

When Dick Durbin called our soldiers Nazis, Harry Reid supported him. Reid only found his misplaced sense of outrage when Rove called Dems whims.

Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi says we should stop this whole fighting the terrorists thing and instead focus on how we bad americans might have hurt those terrorists’ feelings. [Panties on the head and a stuck air conditioner ain’t abuse, get over it)

Dozens of Dems who didn’t mind our soldiers being called Nazis a few days ago are now outraged at Rove.

So you can blather all you want about how we really are worse than the Nazis and how panties on the head really is the same as killing 12 million people… You can blather all day long about how evil Bush and Rummy are…

But when you wake up after losing the next election and you wonder why you lost… Don’t worry about voter fraud… Don’t worry about suppressing the minority vote… Don’t worry about exit polls.

When you guys lose the next election --and make no mistake at the rate you are going, you will lose the next election-- when you wonder why you lost, remember this day.

This is why you will lose the next election. Until you guys figure out that protecting America is actually more important to the American people than protecting terrorists, we won’t trust you with the keys.

*It really is that simple.

What Rove said? nytimes.com/2005/06/23/politics/23rove.html?ei=5090&en=be050f4c6a1d0259&ex=1277179200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

 

[jlw]

Related post:

hughhewitt.com/#postid1734

 

[Philip_P]

jlw:

From www.wizbangblog.com

(re: Dems reply to Rove)

You know guys, sometimes life really is simple.

When Dick Durbin called our soldiers Nazis, Harry Reid supported him. Reid only found his misplaced sense of outrage when Rove called Dems whims.

Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi says we should stop this whole fighting the terrorists thing and instead focus on how we bad americans might have hurt those terrorists’ feelings. [Panties on the head and a stuck air conditioner ain’t abuse, get over it)

Dozens of Dems who didn’t mind our soldiers being called Nazis a few days ago are now outraged at Rove.

So you can blather all you want about how we really are worse than the Nazis and how panties on the head really is the same as killing 12 million people… You can blather all day long about how evil Bush and Rummy are…

But when you wake up after losing the next election and you wonder why you lost… Don’t worry about voter fraud… Don’t worry about suppressing the minority vote… Don’t worry about exit polls.

When you guys lose the next election --and make no mistake at the rate you are going, you will lose the next election-- when you wonder why you lost, remember this day.

This is why you will lose the next election. Until you guys figure out that protecting America is actually more important to the American people than protecting terrorists, we won’t trust you with the keys.

*It really is that simple

.

What Rove said? nytimes.com/2005/06/23/politics/23rove.html?ei=5090&en=be050f4c6a1d0259&ex=1277179200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Of course, there is another interpretation…that both the ultra right and ultra left are raving, frothing lunatics whose holy outrage threatens to destroy us all.

Both parties are significantly farther to the respective left and right than the majority of the country. Election reform, anyone? We could start with competitive congressional districts that make it easier for moderates to win and harder for hard-liners.

 

[Philip_P]

jlw:

…Panties on the head and a stuck air conditioner ain’t abuse, get over it …

BTW, as long as people are going to keep on bringing up Durbin, why not actually give entire quotes? Everyone keeps talking about the air conditioning, but conveniently ignores the chaining of detainees “hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water.” and “left there for 18-24 hours or more.” Comes right before the air conditioner comments, but not quite as much fun to ridicule, huh?

And btw, I think the criticism of Rove is overrated, as much as that of Durbin was. This partisan extremism is stupid, and dangerous.

 

[miguel]

Philip P:

Of course, there is another interpretation…that both the ultra right and ultra left are raving, frothing lunatics whose holy outrage threatens to destroy us all.

Moral equivalence…a liberal trademark.
Philip P:

Both parties are significantly farther to the respective left and right than the majority of the country. Election reform, anyone? We could start with competitive congressional districts…

…one of the propositions in the upcoming California special election, and a great idea to wrest control of the state from the Democrats who are ruining it.
Philip P:

…that make it easier for moderates to win and harder for hard-liners.

Actually, it’s designed to prevent incumbents from having a lock on the outcome. Can’t see that it will have much affect on moderating the parties. BTW, the term moderate is a code word for pro-choice…ain’t nothing moderate about that.

 

[yochumjy]

Philip P:

BTW, as long as people are going to keep on bringing up Durbin, why not actually give entire quotes? Everyone keeps talking about the air conditioning, but conveniently ignores the chaining of detainees “hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water.” and “left there for 18-24 hours or more.” Comes right before the air conditioner comments, but not quite as much fun to ridicule, huh?
.

Well if that was all the Nazi’s did, then I guess all Durbins accusations were right on the mark.

 

[Philip_P]

miguel:

Moral equivalence…a liberal trademark.
…one of the propositions in the upcoming California special election, and a great idea to wrest control of the state from the Democrats who are ruining it.
Actually, it’s designed to prevent incumbents from having a lock on the outcome. BTW, the term moderate is a code word for pro-choice…ain’t nothing moderate about that.

No equivocating - I think extremists are bad. Evil people? How would I know, I’m not God. But bad for the nation? Most definitely.

As far as the California proposition, I think it’s a good idea, and hope other states follow it’s lead.

And as far as “moderate” being code for pro-choice, that’s complete and utter bunk. That’s the problem with single-issue voting, perspective gets so narrow it begins to distort even commonly understood words.

 

[miguel]

Philip P:

BTW, as long as people are going to keep on bringing up Durbin, why not actually give entire quotes? Everyone keeps talking about the air conditioning, but conveniently ignores the chaining of detainees “hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water.” and “left there for 18-24 hours or more.” Comes right before the air conditioner comments, but not quite as much fun to ridicule, huh?

And btw, I think the criticism of Rove is overrated, as much as that of Durbin was. This partisan extremism is stupid, and dangerous.

He wasn’t ridiculed for those statements. He was ridiculed for equating this to the mass murdering Nazis and Communists. How ironic for a Senator from the party that defends baby killing to the tune of 1.5 million a year.

 

[swampfox]

Philip P:

BTW, as long as people are going to keep on bringing up Durbin, why not actually give entire quotes? Everyone keeps talking about the air conditioning, but conveniently ignores the chaining of detainees “hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water.” and “left there for 18-24 hours or more.” Comes right before the air conditioner comments, but not quite as much fun to ridicule, huh?

And btw, I think the criticism of Rove is overrated, as much as that of Durbin was. This partisan extremism is stupid, and dangerous.

The Horror. The Horror.

 

[miguel]

Philip P:

…And as far as “moderate” being code for pro-choice, that’s complete and utter bunk…

You need to pay attention. Every time that word is used by the main stream media to describe a politician, that politician is pro-choice. You haven’t noticed?

 

[Celia]

Philip P:

BTW, as long as people are going to keep on bringing up Durbin, why not actually give entire quotes? Everyone keeps talking about the air conditioning, but conveniently ignores the chaining of detainees “hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water.” and “left there for 18-24 hours or more.” Comes right before the air conditioner comments, but not quite as much fun to ridicule, huh?

And btw, I think the criticism of Rove is overrated, as much as that of Durbin was. This partisan extremism is stupid, and dangerous.

:clapping:

 

[gilliam]

You might recall this post from The New Editor linked yesterday. Tom Elia had found a rather disappointing reference in the Washington Post:

"One year ago: Islamic militants beheaded Kim Sun-il, a South Korean hostage who’d pleaded for his life in a heart-wrenching videotape; he was the third foreign hostage decapitated in the Middle East in little over a month."Come on. Those who would viciously chop off another’s head and tape it for all the world to see are not “militants” … they are terrorists.​

Today we find this example from the AP: BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) – Suspected Islamic separatists beheaded a man at a teashop Wednesday and then left his head in a sack on the side of the road, the latest in a series of bold attacks across southern Thailand defying government attempts to restore peace.At least they get credit for not writing “Suspected Islamic separatists alledgedly beheaded a man at a teashop Wednesday”. But even if they refuse to use “terrorist” I think a better term than “separatist” could be found for someone who beheads a fellow human being. (And yes - I know separatist is a political term.)

Maybe the AP thought their word choice was funny.

(Also see this)

hat tip

you still want to talk about handcuffing?

 

[gnjsdad]

Philip P:

Of course, there is another interpretation…that both the ultra right and ultra left are raving, frothing lunatics whose holy outrage threatens to destroy us all.

Or that both parties are the two wings of the same predatory bird of prey. The Democrats speak for the welfare state; the Republicans the warfare state.

Both parties now champion big, limitless government.The Democrats want to expand the welfare state; the Republicans want to expand the warfare state.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Those who equate current US activities with the Nazis and Gitmo to a gulag obviously have no concept of what Nazis or gulags were really about.

That being said, holding people who have not been convicted of any crime for an indefinite period of time is wrong (not to mention illegal). If you think that it is not too bad then maybe you should think about how you would feel if you were held incognito for 3 years and maybe perhaps occasionally chained to a chair until you soiled yourself……then we can talk.

As far as I know Habeas Corpus has not been revoked. If these people did something than accuse and try them. If the information related to their crime is too sensitive then bring it before a judge and then seal the record for 10 or 20 years. BUT we cannot let a single branch of government decide these matters

miguel:

You need to pay attention. Every time that word is used by the main stream media to describe a politician, that politician is pro-choice. You haven’t noticed?

no, not really. Would you say that a pro-life Democrat like Casey isn’t called a moderate?

 

[miguel]

Steve Andersen:

Those who equate current US activities with the Nazis and Gitmo to a gulag obviously have no concept of what Nazis or gulags were really about.

Absolutely. It was an incredibly stupid and offensive thing to say.
Steve Andersen:

That being said, holding people who have not been convicted of any crime for an indefinite period of time is wrong (not to mention illegal).

Come on. They’re prisoners of war. Different rules apply. As long as our military considers them to be enemy combatants, they have every right to lock them up. Taking and holding prisoners is not a new concept in warfare. It’s more humane than shooting them isn’t it?..another thing the Nazis were good at.
Steve Andersen:

If you think that it is not too bad then maybe you should think about how you would feel if you were held incognito for 3 years and maybe perhaps occasionally chained to a chair until you soiled yourself……then we can talk.

No, I wouldn’t like it. But how is that relevant? What prisoner of war ever likes being a prisoner?
Steve Andersen:

no, not really. Would you say that a pro-life Democrat like Casey isn’t called a moderate?

It’s not what I would say that counts. It’s what the main stream media would call him. From what I can tell, they don’t even know pro-life Democrats exist. And why would they? There aren’t that many out there. The Democrats wouldn’t even let Casey speak at the '96 convention. To them, he was an extremist.

 

[Tom444]

Regardless of what anyone thinks “moderate” means, look at how the term is used in the media. A pro-choice Republican would be referred to as a “moderate Republican.” On the other hand, a pro-life Democrat is a “conservative Democrat,” even though he’s still probably left of the center on most issues. The former term is used positively, the latter negatively.

 

[Philip_P]

Well, here’s some use of the term “moderate” in reference to politics, from the New York Times, a leading newspaper of the allegedly “liberal” media.

First, on Republicans:

Stolberg. Congress Passes Budget With Cuts In Medicaid Growth and in Taxes, 4/29/05:

“Some moderate Republicans, led by Senator Gordon H. Smith of Oregon, agreed, and the resulting dispute over Medicaid threatened to derail the entire budget process. When the budget passed the Senate last month, Mr. Smith led a successful effort to eliminate any spending reductions on Medicaid and instead create a bipartisan commission to study the future of the program.”

The Center Can Hold; [Editorial], 6/12/05:

“The bipartisan ‘'gang of 14’ that struck a deal to save the filibuster could start to be a powerful force for centrism on the most divisive issue on Capitol Hill – judicial nominations. But for that to happen, moderate Republicans like Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Lincoln Chafee and John McCain need to do two things: stick to their promise not to allow the filibuster to be eliminated and vote against the worst of President Bush’s judicial nominees.”

And on Democrats:

Ending the Gerrymander Wars (Editorial) 5/30/05:

“It is no surprise that the bill’s sponsor, Mr. Tanner, is a moderate Democrat from Tennessee.”

*Lambert. “Suozzi Calls for ‘Common Ground’ on Reducing Abortions” 5/11/05: *

“The Nassau County executive, Thomas R. Suozzi, proposed a plan yesterday to reduce abortions, delivering a speech that he called an attempt ‘‘to find some common ground’’ on a divisive issue…Mr. Suozzi, who is said to be interested in running for governor, might benefit in a Democratic primary against Attorney General Eliot Spitzer by positioning himself as a moderate Democrat.”

Now except in the example of Mr. Suozzi, moderate was not used in reference to abortion. And in the case of Mr. Suozzi, moderate was used to indicate a backing away from unrestricted “abortion on demand” and a desire to see fewer, not more, abortions.

Among those referred to as moderates in these citations, some may very well hold “pro-choice” views, but it is not for these views that they are being referred to as moderates.

---

 

[Penny_Plain]

miguel:

Come on. They’re prisoners of war. Different rules apply. As long as our military considers them to be enemy combatants, they have every right to lock them up. Taking and holding prisoners is not a new concept in warfare.

When was war declared?

 

[thestickman]

Penny Plain:

When was war declared?

Congress hasn’t offically declared we are in a state of war. However, an act of war was committed against American on 9/11

 

[miguel]

Philip P:

…Among those referred to as moderates in these citations, some may very well hold “pro-choice” views, but it is not for these views that they are being referred to as moderates…

How naive. But I could cut you some slack here. Maybe since you’re a Democrat (and probably totally brainwashed by the NY Times), you don’t notice the way this term is used as much as a Republican would. But within the Republican party, the term “moderate Republican” is synonymous with “pro-choice Republican.”
Here’s a short list of “moderate” Republicans:
Arnold Schwarzenegger (pro-choice)
Pete Wilson (pro-choice)
Colin Powell (pro-choice)
Dick Reardon (pro-choice)
John McCain (pro-choice)
Rudy Guiliani (pro-choice)
Michael Bloomberg (pro-choice)
George Pataki (pro-choice)
Christie Todd Whitman (pro-choice)

Unless you just fell off the turnip truck, you know what the term “moderate” means. Here’s a typical example of how the term is used by the media:
msnbc.msn.com/id/5899871/site/newsweek