But it does matter. External criticism is more difficult to swallow, especially from quarters where self-examination is long overdue.
“B’fore you 'cuse me…take a look at yorself…”No arguement there.
Well then it seems that we agree that mistreatment of prisoners is wrong and should not be tolerated, and our disagreement comes from how the issue is raised and framed. So then the question is how do we talk about this in a way that doesn’t degenerate into partisan wrangling? How would you as a conservative frame the issue?Philip P:It shouldn’t matter whether a Republican or Democrat or other makes the point.
**Miguel:**But it does matter. External criticism is more difficult to swallow, especially from quarters where self-examination is long overdue.
1: Demand that any/all American personnel (keeping in mind my personal belief there really hasn’t been any torture to speak of–I’ve seen drunk plebes treated worse at frat parties than the folks at AbuGhraib & in America, that’s known as hazing, not torture) accused of torture be investigated and if probable cause is found, have there case adjudicated in the proper court.
thestickman said:1: Demand that any/all American personnel (keeping in mind my personal belief there really hasn’t been any torture to speak of–I’ve seen drunk plebes treated worse at frat parties than the folks at AbuGhraib & in America, that’s known as hazing, not torture) accused of torture be investigated and if probable cause is found, have there case adjudicated in the proper court.
And when we do discuss this issue publically, always do so in a manner that respects the morale of the troops in the field FIRST! They and their familes deserve nothing less.
- Accept the reality there are a few bad eggs in every basket and this includes the military. Some are going to behave in an unprofessional manner and when they do, see #1.
- Discuss the issue all you want, but do so in a way that never has a chance to affect the morale of the troops in the field. Durbin and Co forgot this recently and they should be ashamed. If someone in the Congress wishes to raise the issue, do so in a secure setting as they do with intelligence briefings and such. Issues of national security, including investigations are done and have been done this way for years.
Finally, cease using all inaccurate and historical comparisons between Bush and the Nazi’s unless a valid instance/event that warrants such a comparison actually appears. The term nazi has been misused so often the left and the MSM are going to soon make the term meaningless–which IMO is more dangerous than they seem to know.
That’s a portion of what I would suggest. I have to fix lunch now
I don’t have much more to add to this, except that before we can seriously talk about torture, someone needs to produce the evidence. It’s very easy to sit around and condemn it. Convincing people that it exists, that it’s widespread and systematic, and the direct result of administration policy is another matter. BTW, my instinctive conservative mistrust of government keeps me from having blinders on here.
I think this is a valid point. If they were seriously interested in prisoner abuse, they would be attacking things like homosexual rape in the prison system. But focusing on that doesn’t further anyone’s political objectives. (Besides, it might embarrass the gays.)
thestickman said:
Again, I agree, but it needs to be swift.
A little more responsible rhetoric on both sides would be helpful. It’s absurd for Republicans to call Democrats traitors whenever they criticize the administration, and intoducing Nazis into debate is just, well, stupid. It never works or accomplishes anything of any value in conversation.And when we do discuss this issue publically, always do so in a manner that respects the morale of the troops in the field FIRST! They and their familes deserve nothing less.
- Discuss the issue all you want, but do so in a way that never has a chance to affect the morale of the troops in the field. Durbin and Co forgot this recently and they should be ashamed. If someone in the Congress wishes to raise the issue, do so in a secure setting as they do with intelligence briefings and such. Issues of national security, including investigations are done and have been done this way for years.
Finally, cease using all inaccurate and historical comparisons between Bush and the Nazi’s unless a valid instance/event that warrants such a comparison actually appears. The term nazi has been misused so often the left and the MSM are going to soon make the term meaningless–which IMO is more dangerous than they seem to know.
That’s a portion of what I would suggest. I have to fix lunch now
Hahahaha! That’s a funny one, for sure. Fallacious, but very funny.
LOL!! What a mess of spin. Time for you to answer a simple question. Do you want the troops to meet all their objectives in Iraq?
What exactly do you mean by full and open? What should these investigations include?
I wouldn’t go that far. Sometimes bringing up the lessons of history is warranted, especially when accurate comparisons can be drawn, like numbers of murdered, etc. Personally, I reserve the right to compare the Supreme Court’s de-humanization of the unborn with the Nazis de-humanization of Jews. In both cases, the door was opened to mass slaughter. Democrats (and some Republicans) may not like to hear that. But it is absolutely accurate.
I agree with you on this point. Along these lines, Sean Hannity was pigeon-holing as liberal, anyone who didn’t get on his Iraqi war bandwagon. As a conservative opposed to this war, I resented that. You can support the troops with strong defense budgets and by not putting them in harms way unless absolutely necessary. The hyping of WMDs that preceded this war raised red flags in my mind. Clinton did the same thing in Kosovo. And the fact that we’re now in a protracted guerilla war is not surprising either. What did they expect? When faced with overwhelming military superiority, guerilla war has proven time and again to be an effective resistance. But now that we’re in there, I hope we leave it better off than we found it. And the jury is still out on that one.
Marvelous. I suspected that it wasn’t just us liberals who either opposed or had reservations about the war, but I presumed that strong peer pressure had prevented concerned conservatives from breaking ranks with the Administration. Thank you for your expressed opinion.
You’re welcome. But don’t count on me breaking ranks in the voting booth. I vote against Democrats every chance I get. And I do that because of the baby killing.
I would never do so. Your vote (and mine) are our votes, and we should be the only judges of those votes. If you find it impossible to vote for Democrats, I respect your decision.
Hey, you have to justify your decision to vote for these people to God, not me. Good luck.
Something we each must do when we vote for any candidate, to be sure.
I think this calls for a prayer (for each other).
Amen! People who equate negotiable issues with non-negotiable issues are just trying to justify their anti-Catholic vote.
Please give me any quote from a Republican politician where they referred to a Democrat (or Democrats) as traiters for criticizing the administration.
Another “extremist” pro-life Catholic you are.
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