To my Non-Catholic Christian friends: What if the Holy Spirit is guiding me to the RCC?

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4Squarebaby said:
There are different peoples, cultures and languages. A brother or sister working with and a member of the AoG, the SDA, the Catholic Church, etc can go places and reach souls that their brother can not.
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but shouldn’t the Word of God be the same for all people, cultures and languages? I’m understanding why there would be some differences. For example, in one culture, bowing would be a sign of the greatest respect, whereas in another culture, maybe it would be kneeling, while in another it might be standing.
That makes total sense to me.
And of course there would be language and culture barriers, to be sure. But doesn’t the Word of God transcend all of that? Doesn’t the Holy Spirit transcend all of that?
Again, I’m just thinking out loud here, and your (name removed by moderator)ut on this matter is greatly appreciated.
To use the example I used in the previous post - my protestant acquaintances tell me that the idea of Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry, which will send me to Hell. According to the RCC, this is a beautiful and pious form of worship and will help me get to Heaven. I truly believe my Protestant friends love the Lord, and want only to please him. I also believe that the many Catholics who go to eucharistic adoration are faithful and also only want to please the Lord. Moreover, these people are my peers. They are not of different cultures, times or languages. Shouldn’t we be on the same page?
How can I sort out between the two who is truly right? Are they both right? How could that be?
Again, I trully appreciate any insight you have.
Your sister in Christ,
r
 
rwillenborg said:
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear in my initial post as to what my point is.
Actually, your post kind of makes my point.
The Holy Spirit led your father AWAY from the Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit is leading me TOWARDS the Catholic Church. How can that be? Why would the Holy Spirit lead one person to one set of doctrines and lead another to another set of doctrines when both people were simply asking to be led towards the Truth?
I guess, after floating around in the la-la land of agnosticism for so long, I’d really like to find the Truth and I’m getting so many comflicting views from so many angles. I simply want to do God’s will and be in His Church.

I’m seeking the Truth, whatever that might be, and I don’t understand how there could possibly be conflicting truths.

Does that clear up my point at all?
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this might help you a little. ** Marcus Grodi and david Anders. **

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=the+journey+home
 
rwillenborg said:
How funny! I’m listening to marcus grodi right now! He’s talking with an atheist.
I’ll listen to the david anders one next. Thanks!
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you are welcome. you will love David anders story.

God bless.
 
First off, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit? I simply ask that as you claim to have been unacquainted with said Spirit for a long period of time. Given this, how did you acquire the ability to identify the Spirit and interpret His leading?

(I’m suggesting that you might want to be wary of subjective “feelings” and such-mormons claim a burning in the bosom is the spirit’s confirmation of their truth-can you prove that your experience is somehow more “right” than theirs? If not, you should tread lightly on it.)

What you want to do is spend a good bit of time in the Gospels and Acts and see how Jesus described Himself and how the Apostles described Him. Then look at the various churches and the Jesus they preach-match up the two and you are well on your way!

Next you might want to look at how the church worshiped in Acts and compare it to churches today-that will weed out a few others.

Finally, take a look at what Jesus and the Apostles command believers to do and then look at what the remaining church candidates ask members to do and that should give you a very short list to work from.

God Bless!
 
rwillenborg said:
it’s sister. 🙂
And thanks. It’s good to be home. I just keep praying that I’m in the RIGHT home! 🙂
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In that case welcome home sister 🙂

My best advice durring this process, is do your best to empty your self of your own expectations and desires. Pray constantly, and pray specifically to be filled with the wants and desires of Chrsit. If you can manage this, I certainly believe you will soon discover that you are indeed ni the right home.

Congratulations again 🙂
 
Non_Serviam said:
First off, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit? I simply ask that as you claim to have been unacquainted with said Spirit for a long period of time. Given this, how did you acquire the ability to identify the Spirit and interpret His leading?

(I’m suggesting that you might want to be wary of subjective “feelings” and such-mormons claim a burning in the bosom is the spirit’s confirmation of their truth-can you prove that your experience is somehow more “right” than theirs? If not, you should tread lightly on it.)

What you want to do is spend a good bit of time in the Gospels and Acts and see how Jesus described Himself and how the Apostles described Him. Then look at the various churches and the Jesus they preach-match up the two and you are well on your way!

Next you might want to look at how the church worshiped in Acts and compare it to churches today-that will weed out a few others.

Finally, take a look at what Jesus and the Apostles command believers to do and then look at what the remaining church candidates ask members to do and that should give you a very short list to work from.

God Bless!
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You make excellent points.
I question that myself. Often. I mean, reallly, how would I know it’s the Holy Spirit guiding me? It’s hard to pull out what’s really ‘me’ guiding me, what’s the influence of friends and family, what’s the influence of the culture we live in, and, lastly, I always wonder what’s the influence of other, possibly not-so-nice forces. Really, how would I know? Here’s a hint, though, for me. So far, this ‘coming to Christ’ or whatever it’s called, well, it sucks. I’m not gonig to make any bones about it. It sucks. Back when i thought you just ended up as food for worms, everything was all well and good. Now that I realize that I will actually have to be ACCOUNTABLE for this life here on earth…oh boy. In short, generally, if I come to a conclusion that I don’t like, I can at least assume that one didn’t come from ‘me’, as it were.
And, again, I wonder because I know there are people who love the Lord and still end up in all sorts of difference churches. So, is the Holy Spirit really guiding all of them? How do they know?
I couldn’t agree with you more on avoiding basing anything on feelings. Heck, I ‘felt’ like I loved the man I was dating, got married, and NOW look what I got myself into! 🙂 (I kid, I kid, he’s wonderful)
But, seriously, I am wary of anything heavily emotional. I think that’s a warning for ALL aspects of life!
i really like your system of looking at scriptures. I will try to apply it. Thanks so much for the advice. I really appreciate it.
 
Non_Serviam said:
First off, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit? I simply ask that as you claim to have been unacquainted with said Spirit for a long period of time. Given this, how did you acquire the ability to identify the Spirit and interpret His leading?

(I’m suggesting that you might want to be wary of subjective “feelings” and such-mormons claim a burning in the bosom is the spirit’s confirmation of their truth-can you prove that your experience is somehow more “right” than theirs? If not, you should tread lightly on it.)

What you want to do is spend a good bit of time in the Gospels and Acts and see how Jesus described Himself and how the Apostles described Him. Then look at the various churches and the Jesus they preach-match up the two and you are well on your way!

Next you might want to look at how the church worshiped in Acts and compare it to churches today-that will weed out a few others.

Finally, take a look at what Jesus and the Apostles command believers to do and then look at what the remaining church candidates ask members to do and that should give you a very short list to work from.

God Bless!
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Better yet - go back 500 years or so and weed out every single Church that started after the 15th century. They were ALL established by flawed men - every single one of them.

Then - go back to the beginning and see how many Churches Christ built. You need only go to Matt. 16:15-19 to see that he only established one.
1 Tim. 3:15 says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Nowhere does it say that there were multiple pillars.
 
rwillenborg said:
You make excellent points.
I question that myself. Often. I mean, reallly, how would I know it’s the Holy Spirit guiding me? It’s hard to pull out what’s really ‘me’ guiding me, what’s the influence of friends and family, what’s the influence of the culture we live in, and, lastly, I always wonder what’s the influence of other, possibly not-so-nice forces. Really, how would I know? Here’s a hint, though, for me. So far, this ‘coming to Christ’ or whatever it’s called, well, it sucks. I’m not gonig to make any bones about it. It sucks. Back when i thought you just ended up as food for worms, everything was all well and good. Now that I realize that I will actually have to be ACCOUNTABLE for this life here on earth…oh boy. In short, generally, if I come to a conclusion that I don’t like, I can at least assume that one didn’t come from ‘me’, as it were.
And, again, I wonder because I know there are people who love the Lord and still end up in all sorts of difference churches. So, is the Holy Spirit really guiding all of them? How do they know?
I couldn’t agree with you more on avoiding basing anything on feelings. Heck, I ‘felt’ like I loved the man I was dating, got married, and NOW look what I got myself into! 🙂 (I kid, I kid, he’s wonderful)
But, seriously, I am wary of anything heavily emotional. I think that’s a warning for ALL aspects of life!
i really like your system of looking at scriptures. I will try to apply it. Thanks so much for the advice. I really appreciate it.
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just a little advice, look for the Kingdom. the Church must look like the Kingdom of David. remember the King and his Kingdom when reading the Bible. how a kingdom operates. does it have a King? does it have a prime minister? does it have a cabinet? does it have the judges, the courts? does it have the people?

God bless.
 
rwillenborg said:
You make excellent points.
I question that myself. Often. I mean, reallly, how would I know it’s the Holy Spirit guiding me? It’s hard to pull out what’s really ‘me’ guiding me, what’s the influence of friends and family, what’s the influence of the culture we live in, and, lastly, I always wonder what’s the influence of other, possibly not-so-nice forces. Really, how would I know? Here’s a hint, though, for me. So far, this ‘coming to Christ’ or whatever it’s called, well, it sucks. I’m not gonig to make any bones about it. It sucks. Back when i thought you just ended up as food for worms, everything was all well and good. Now that I realize that I will actually have to be ACCOUNTABLE for this life here on earth…oh boy. In short, generally, if I come to a conclusion that I don’t like, I can at least assume that one didn’t come from ‘me’, as it were.
And, again, I wonder because I know there are people who love the Lord and still end up in all sorts of difference churches. So, is the Holy Spirit really guiding all of them? How do they know?
I couldn’t agree with you more on avoiding basing anything on feelings. Heck, I ‘felt’ like I loved the man I was dating, got married, and NOW look what I got myself into! 🙂 (I kid, I kid, he’s wonderful)
But, seriously, I am wary of anything heavily emotional. I think that’s a warning for ALL aspects of life!
i really like your system of looking at scriptures. I will try to apply it. Thanks so much for the advice. I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Well said, Wisdom is revealed in your comments here. To worship God is not an emotional roller coaster ride, or falsely labeling the result of an enlightenment to an emotional rush as a Spirit, be careful here, because the evil one lurks here, disguised as an angel. Learn to distinguish the mysteries of God from the Sacramental life given us from Jesus Christ and his Apostles, from those invented by men. God does not entertain you, nor are we to entertain God as if each were an audience to one another. In the Catholic Church, we are the “children of God”, we commune with the blessed Trinity as one family on earth as it is in heaven. The Catholic Church reveals in mystagogy the difference between being in the "True presence of God through Jesus (flesh) body, blood, soul and divinity, where we commune with God in all of our senses.

The following scripture reveals how one can discern the True Spirit, who ever confesses Jesus come in the flesh as Catholics have practiced and believed since the resurrection;

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2
**This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God, **3
and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus 2 does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4
You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5
**They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them. **
6
**We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit. **

Peace be with you
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rwillenborg said:
So, I spent a VERY long time away from anything related to Christian thinking, spending all my adult life as an atheist and, on my better days, agnostic. My familiarity with the Christian faith growing up was very limited, so I’m kind of looking at this with new eyes.
I pray to the Holy Spirit daily. I read Scripture daily. I really try to let the Holy Spirit guide me. My protestant acquaintances assure me that the RCC is NOT the place for me, but how can that be possible if that’s where Scripture and the Holy Spirit are leading me? The Catholic ideas of purgatory, and honor to Mary and especially the Eucharist all jump out at me from Scripture.
I really want to follow the Lord’s will for me, and the pull to the RCC is overwhelming. How could this be wrong?
I ask this with a charitable spirit and hope to get answers of the same. Thanks in advance for your time!
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If the Holy Spirit leads you to the Catholic Church, by all means you *must *go there. I am certain that His word and sacraments are there, to bless and sustain you into eternal life.

Jon
 
T_More said:
How funny, after reading the OP, this came to mind as well. I DVRed this and have watched 3 times now. I can find no fault in his conclusions. Anders story is fantastic.
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yes, he is an amazing witness. very knowledgeble.

Amen.
 
rwillenborg said:
I’m guessing an AG church is very different from a Catholic one, is that right? I simply don’t understand how two people (you and me in this example) could both ask the Holy Spirit for truth, and we receive different answers!! There’s one truth. That’s what I don’t understand.
My Protestant friends say that the Eucharist is idolatry, for example! (Again, not sure if that’s what AG believes). So, on the one end, are people who say I’m going to Hell for believing that the Eucharist is the body of christ, and then the Catholics say that will help me get to heaven.
You can understand, I’m sure, that I’d really like to make sure that I get this one right!! This is my eternal soul that’s on the line here!!
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We have a responsibility not only to be aware of the promptings of the Holy Spirit, but also to discern. One thing I love about the Catholic Church is that the deeper I look into its history, Apostolic succession, the witness of the early Church Fathers, the sacraments, the more convinced I am of the truthfulness of its claims. It is the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. No other on the face of the earth can come close to claiming this status. The beauty lies in the fact that it is not just a hollow claim of the Church, but can be demonstrated through historical documentation.

My point is to look at the entire picture which I think will help convince you of the correctness of your decision. Not only is the Holy Spirit pulling you in this direction, but it makes sense from the standpoint of reason also. Truth does not conflict with truth.

I’m happy for you.
 
wisdomseeker said:
just a little advice, look for the Kingdom. the Church must look like the Kingdom of David. remember the King and his Kingdom when reading the Bible. how a kingdom operates. does it have a King? does it have a prime minister? does it have a cabinet? does it have the judges, the courts? does it have the people?

God bless.
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Would you mind expounding on that point a bit? That the Church must look like the Kingdom of David? I’m very intrigued, as this is not something I’ve heard about before.
Why must the Chursh look like the Kingdom of David? Can you tell me which books specifically I could look in to see how the Kingdom of David was set up? I really appreciate it! I’d do the legwork myself on this, but I’m betting you have the answer at your fingertips.
Thanks, and like I said, I hadn’t heard this before and I am intrigued! I am always learning new things here!!
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Well said, Wisdom is revealed in your comments here. To worship God is not an emotional roller coaster ride, or falsely labeling the result of an enlightenment to an emotional rush as a Spirit, be careful here, because the evil one lurks here, disguised as an angel. Learn to distinguish the mysteries of God from the Sacramental life given us from Jesus Christ and his Apostles, from those invented by men. God does not entertain you, nor are we to entertain God as if each were an audience to one another. In the Catholic Church, we are the “children of God”, we commune with the blessed Trinity as one family on earth as it is in heaven. The Catholic Church reveals in mystagogy the difference between being in the "True presence of God through Jesus (flesh) body, blood, soul and divinity, where we commune with God in all of our senses.

The following scripture reveals how one can discern the True Spirit, who ever confesses Jesus come in the flesh as Catholics have practiced and believed since the resurrection;

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2
This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God, 3
and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus 2 does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4
You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5
**They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them. **
6
**We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit. **

Peace be with you
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This is a wonderful reply, and really hits on the head what I was asking before, how would I know that I was encountering the Holy Spirit versus, well, any other spirit.
Thank you!!
 
T_More said:
How funny, after reading the OP, this came to mind as well. I DVRed this and have watched 3 times now. I can find no fault in his conclusions. Anders story is fantastic.
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I listened to half of it, and then had to go. 😦 I’ll get the rest tomorrow, but, so far, his story is incredibly compelling.
 
JonNC said:
If the Holy Spirit leads you to the Catholic Church, by all means you *must *go there. I am certain that His word and sacraments are there, to bless and sustain you into eternal life.

Jon
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Thank you for the encouragement. 🙂
I really appreciate it!! 🙂
 
rwillenborg said:
Would you mind expounding on that point a bit? That the Church must look like the Kingdom of David? I’m very intrigued, as this is not something I’ve heard about before.
Why must the Chursh look like the Kingdom of David? Can you tell me which books specifically I could look in to see how the Kingdom of David was set up? I really appreciate it! I’d do the legwork myself on this, but I’m betting you have the answer at your fingertips.
Thanks, and like I said, I hadn’t heard this before and I am intrigued! I am always learning new things here!!
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JL: Here is what I have there is more of course, but I have this handy:

DN 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGODM which shall never be destroyed and THE KINGDOM shall not be left to other people but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and IT SHALL STAND FOR EVER,

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST and the Lord GOD SHALL GIVE unto HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID 33 And HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER and OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END.

[Lk22:29 And I APPOINT unto YOU A KINGDOM, AS MY FATHER hath APPOINTED unto ME; 30 THAT YE MAY EAT AND DRINK AT MY TABLE IN MY KINGDOM, and SIT ON THRONES JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL. 31 And THE LORD SAID, Simon, SIMON, behold, SATAN HATH DESIRED TO HAVE YOU, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU AS WHEAT: 32 But I HAVE PRAYED FOR **THEE, that THY FAITH FAIL NOT: and WHEN thou art CONVERTED, STRENGTHEN THY BRETHREN.

The apostles sit on thrones judging, they also eat and drink at Christ’s table in his kingdom. Catholics are gathered in union with our bishops around the table of the Lord where we eat and drink at every mass.

When Peter is converted his faith will never fail, he is to strengthen all the brethren as Universal Pastor. Christ said Satan wanted to sift all the apostles (you plural) as wheat, but Christ prayed that only (you singular) Peter’s faith fail not, this was said in the presents of the other apostles. Christ promised Peter’s faith alone would not fail, implying all must be in union and agree with the faith of Peter. Those not in union with Peter’s faith even though they have apostolic secession can teach error. My Bishop or any number of Bishops can teach error if not in union and agreement, with the successor of Peter.

JN 21:14-17 Jesus asked Peter three times, “do you love me more than these” [THESE, would be the other apostles. After being asked three times and replying three times, “yes”. Christ said to Peter, the first time, “feed MY lambs”, the second time, “feed MY sheep”, the third time, “feed MY sheep”. Peter is to feed ALL the sheep in Christ’s flock, not some, but ALL the sheep Christ has purchased with his blood.

[Acts2:41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED: AND the same day there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED stedfastly IN THE APOSTLES’ **DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREADKING OF BREAD, and in PRAYERS.] Breaking of Bread is another term for mass.

The successor of Peter is the bishop of Rome, and holds the keys of the Davidic kingdom a type or foreshadowing of the regenerated and restored spiritual kingdom of Israel in the new covenant (Mt 19:28). Christ the Son of David is king in David’s line, who will build a house for God, (2Sam 7:12-14). Peter is the first minister (prime minister)

[Isa22:19 I will drive you from your station 20 I will call my servant Eliakim 21 I will commit your government to his hand he shall be a father to the people of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay on his shoulder so he shall open and none shall shut he shall shut and none shall open] Eliakim will be the new Prime Minster and called father of Jerusalem, in the Davidic Kingdom, he will succeed Shebna. So in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of David, of which Christ is now king, Peter is will be appointed Prime Minister and called father=pope in the new Jerusalem=Church. The keys indicate the holder has authority over the other royal ministers (or apostles) as they do not receive keys, also indicates the head office has successors.

When the office is vacant it is filled by the King in David’s line, who is Christ, with another by giving of the keys. Jesus alluded to this passage when giving the keys to Peter, Mt 16. Incidentally if Christ is King in David’s line, his mother, which all generations will call blessed, is Gebirah (Queen Mother) 1Kings 2:19. From Solomon the son of David, who built a house for God, there was an office of queen mother in the Dividic Kingdom, the type and foreshadowing of the regenerated spiritual Kingdom. The king Christ, the Son of David, is building a habitation for God of living stones.

My God Bless you, I will pray for your and yours.
 
rwillenborg said:
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear in my initial post as to what my point is.
Actually, your post kind of makes my point.
The Holy Spirit led your father AWAY from the Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit is leading me TOWARDS the Catholic Church. How can that be? Why would the Holy Spirit lead one person to one set of doctrines and lead another to another set of doctrines when both people were simply asking to be led towards the Truth?
I guess, after floating around in the la-la land of agnosticism for so long, I’d really like to find the Truth and I’m getting so many comflicting views from so many angles. I simply want to do God’s will and be in His Church.

I’m seeking the Truth, whatever that might be, and I don’t understand how there could possibly be conflicting truths.

Does that clear up my point at all?
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Well you’re out of agnosticism and at least in a Christian church. Praise God you believe, I couldn’t care less of which church, as long as it’s orthodox.
 
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