To Planten or any other Muslim

[inJESUS]

I reject the “born again” business evangelicals preach,

you can reject anything you like, but not the content of the passage. Nicodimos maybe thought as you, what, should i go back to my mothers womb? Jesus corrected his misunderstanding or at east his explamatory question by explaining that He is paralleling SPIRIT and FLESH. The passage has absolutely nothing to do with humans dying and resurrecting in other wombs…this teaching is an innovation alien to scriptures.

 

[inJESUS]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, **and the Word was God. **

He was in the beginning with God.

All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be

through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

the Word created all things, including human race to which David belonged.

The Word (Jesus) can never be the son of the one He created, aka David. He is His Lord and creator and without Him David wouldn have been created.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

agree, and the Word is not human as well. It took a second nature as human.

Where did God’s Word take this human nature from, was it lying on the side of the road?

Or did God create a man called Jesus with a human body and a human spirit and a human nature, then go to dwell in him so that Jesus could speak God’s Word as God’s Prophet?

God sent the Quran to cut through all this mystical magical jargon so we could see the true story, since God knows hardly anyone can really make sense of Trinity no matter how hard they try to explain it.

I mean, do you ever hear such debate over how God spoke through Moses so that he ruled over people as God, not really being a God himself? Of course not.

I rail on Jews a lot over their doctrines but I can’t entirely blame them for not accepting Jesus since when scrutinized, no one can get past all the contradictions in Trinity, you either have to throw up your hands and say “it’s just a mystery!” or look at it in a different way.

 

[inJESUS]

Where did God’s Word take this human nature from, was it lying on the side of the road?

none of our business.

Or did God create a man called Jesus

 

[FaithofAbraham]

none of our business.

If God’s Word had to take on a human nature, it must have got it from somewhere. Don’t human natures usually come from humans that God created?

Jews do not refuse Jesus because of the Trinity. Jews do not say the Word of God is created, Jews do not believe the Holy Spirit is an angel. the Jews simply deny that Jesus is the Messiah, or that He is the Eternal Word.

Trinity is idolatry in Judaism, though many authorities say a partnership of gods is allowed for Gentiles as long as it includes the God of Israel as the highest. Aside from the Messiah issue.

 

[inJESUS]

If God’s Word had to take on a human nature, it must have got it from somewhere.

God does not need to fetch for created things when He decides to come as a human. It’s easy for Him remember? so its of little use to ponder how God did it.

Don’t human natures usually come from humans that God created?

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

Thank you for providing a definition of a miracle. I think you won’t mind if I provide a more elaborate definition of a miracle, as we Ahmadi peaceful Muslim understand it.

Please read your post carefully.

Something happened in Mary which gave that child a miraculous birth, without a man having touched her.

So the Ahmaddi believe the birth of Jesus is miraculous.

And they will not be dissuaded:

It is the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief that this is exactly what happened. Our case is unshakeable because no scientist can dismiss it as nonsensical or opposed to the known laws of nature.

So, back to the question. Why did God make this miracle?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[zerinus]

The problem is misunderstanding what God’s Word means in John 1:1. God’s Word is just what God says.

---

It means God put His Word in the human Jesus, then Jesus speaks it making Jesus to be God’s Word to the people. God’s Word made flesh. But still a human prophet.

That is not what the scripture says, and that is now how Christians have traditionally understood it. I will repeat it here for you again, since you seem to have already forgotten it. Unbelievers have a short memory!

John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

---

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Do you think you could somehow try to remember that, so that I don’t have to keep repeating it over and over again?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No problem with that at all. Paul also said this about Jesus:

Colossians 1:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Hebrews 1:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Do you think you can try to remember that too? I really don’t want to have to repeat them all over again.

zerinus

 

[FaithofAbraham]

And they will not be dissuaded:
So, back to the question. Why did God make this miracle?

Sincerely,

De Maria

I’m just replying because I want to go back to the primary need, which also addresses the issue with Trinity.

I would just ask if Jesus was God from the start and that was the reason for needing a virgin birth, why did it take him 30 years to start notably talking about God in a ministry? And why did he only do it after he received the Holy Spirit at baptism, was deemed Son of God, then was led to the wilderness by the Holy Spirit? Recalling:

Romans 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Was God’s Word just taking a 30-year break? Or is it that God simply dwelled in Jesus after his baptism?

Back to David, how could his promise of having a son from his own bowels to always be on the throne with no break in an everlasting kingdom be fulfilled, since that hope flew out the window with Solomon’s line?

So as I said, that’s the need for a virgin birth.

 

[inJESUS]

I would just ask if Jesus was God from the start

 

[De_Maria]

I’m just replying because I want to go back to the primary need, which also addresses the issue with Trinity.

I would just ask if Jesus was God from the start and that was the reason for needing a virgin birth, why did it take him 30 years to start notably talking about God in a ministry? And why did he only do it after he received the Holy Spirit at baptism, was deemed Son of God, then was led to the wilderness by the Holy Spirit? Recalling:

Romans 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Was God’s Word just taking a 30-year break? Or is it that God simply dwelled in Jesus after his baptism?

That is simply a mystery. God acts in His own time. You could very well ask, why did God wait until 2000 years ago for this to happen? Why not 3000 years ago? Or 4000?

According to tradition, Jesus was 33 years old when He was crucified. The number 33 has Trinitarian symbolic value. Perhaps that is why God waited.

Back to David, how could his promise of having a son from his own bowels to always be on the throne with no break in an everlasting kingdom be fulfilled,

From his bowels or from his line?

since that hope flew out the window with Solomon’s line?

Obviously it did not fly out the window since the Jews were wating and are still waiting for that son.

So as I said, that’s the need for a virgin birth.

Since there were and there remain many Jews of the Davidic line that is not true. There was no real need for a virgin birth. God chose to be born of a virgin of His own Will and to fulfill the prophecies:

1. the seed of the woman. Genesis 3
2. born of a virgin. Isaiah.
3. God with us .Isaiah

And obviously, the Virgin Birth is a sign to us of Jesus’ Divine origins.

But in Islam, if Jesus is supposedly a regular Joe, why was He born of a virgin?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[FaithofAbraham]

you can try to find any other solution other than saying Jesus is the biological son of David because Jesus created David and his son. Jesus is David’s Lord, not his son.

You agree that God’s Word existed eternally as God, so it would be God’s Word that did the creating.

You also agree that the human spirit and nature of Jesus did not exist eternally as God, God’s Word took it on at some point.

In order to do that the human spirit and nature had to be created as a human for God’s Word to be clothed with it.

If David needs an immediate son to pass his throne to in order for God to keep His promise of an unbroken and everlasting kingdom, there is only one solution. That human spirit and nature was created as David’s son and resurrected into Mary’s womb.

David will also see Jesus as God on earth. But Messiah still has to be descended from David, so there is still the problem you propose whether it is right from David or many generations down to Mary.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

From his bowels or from his line?

Bowels, right from David’s body.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Obviously it did not fly out the window since the Jews were wating and are still waiting for that son.

Since there were and there remain many Jews of the Davidic line that is not true. There was no real need for a virgin birth. God chose to be born of a virgin of His own Will and to fulfill the prophecies:

1. the seed of the woman. Genesis 3
2. born of a virgin. Isaiah.
3. God with us .Isaiah

And obviously, the Virgin Birth is a sign to us of Jesus’ Divine origins.

But in Islam, if Jesus is supposedly a regular Joe, why was He born of a virgin?

Jews hope for no Jesus, I know that much. But they ignore that Solomon lost the promise for taking other gods so only David had it again, and it needed to go to an immediate son for the promise to be fulfilled.

1. Mary is symbolic there. But also the seed of the woman is Jewish Kingdoms, the seed of the Serpent is Gentile Kingdoms. Seed of Man, Seed of Beast mentioned in Jeremiah and Daniel, mingled but not cleaving.
2. Almah is young woman but I agree it is still about Mary.
3. Whichever way we see it, God incarnated as a human or God dwelling in a human, God could have simply been born into a baby conceived of sex putting His own spirit into a fetus. There is still need for real flesh from David, whether it came from sex with her husband or God cloned it from Mary’s tissue. So I don’t think any of that requires a virgin birth either.

Only the fulfillment of David’s promise for a son that would have an everlasting kingdom would require virgin birth.

 

[De_Maria]

Bowels, right from David’s body.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

That was fulfilled in Solomon. He is the son of David’s bowells who took his throne and built the house for God.

Note that the Davidian covenant was conditional concerning the everlasting Kingdom

3 Kings 8
25 Now therefore, O Lord God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father what thou hast spoken to him, saying: There shall not be taken away of thee a man in my sight, to sit on the throne of Israel: yet so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked in my sight.:

In other words, if David’s line does not remain faithful to God, the Kingdom would be stripped away. And that is what happened as well.

3 Kings 11
33 Because he hath forsaken me, and hath adored Astarthe the goddess of the Sidonians, and Chamos the god of Moab, and Moloch the god of the children of Ammon: and hath not walked in my ways, to do justice before me, and to keep my precepts, and judgments as did David his father. 34 Yet I will not take away all the kingdom out of his hand, but I will make him prince all the days of his life, for David my servant’s sake, whom I chose, who kept my commandments and my precepts. 35 But I will take away the kingdom out of his son’s hand and will give thee ten tribes:

Jews hope for no Jesus, I know that much.

But they hope for the Messiah:
…The belief in the coming of the messianic era belongs to that latter kind of hope. No less a part of Jewish tradition than kosher food or bris milah, (circumcision), faith in the coming of the Messiah is a central pillar of Judaism.
But they ignore that Solomon lost the promise for taking other gods so only David had it again, and it needed to go to an immediate son for the promise to be fulfilled…
jewishmag.com/33MAG/messiah/messiah.htm

1. Mary is symbolic there. But also the seed of the woman is Jewish Kingdoms, the seed of the Serpent is Gentile Kingdoms. Seed of Man, Seed of Beast mentioned in Jeremiah and Daniel, mingled but not cleaving.

No. The Seed of the Woman is Jesus. And the Seed of the Woman is those who keep the Commandments of God.

The Seed of the Serpent is those who disobey God. The Seed of the Serpent is also the AntiChrist. In fact, Mohammed, the denier of the Divinity of Christ is a member of this seed.

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.

1. Almah is young woman

And in that culture, young women were virgins.

but I agree it is still about Mary.

Correct.

1. Whichever way we see it, God incarnated as a human or God dwelling in a human, God could have simply been born into a baby conceived of sex putting His own spirit into a fetus. There is still need for real flesh from David, whether it came from sex with her husband or God cloned it from Mary’s tissue. So I don’t think any of that requires a virgin birth either.

Yet the Quran describes a virgin birth. Why? After all, there is no need for a virgin birth in the Quran since to Muslims, Jesus is a simple and ordinary man.

Only the fulfillment of David’s promise for a son that would have an everlasting kingdom would require virgin birth.

And that Kingdom would be Christian. As we have in the Church. Not Mohamedan. So why does Islam have Christ being born of a Virgin?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[FaithofAbraham]

That was fulfilled in Solomon. He is the son of David’s bowells who took his throne and built the house for God.

It wasn’t fulfilled, that house was destroyed, another Temple built, and that destroyed too. Solomon’s throne wasn’t established forever, it died with Babylon. Only Jesus has a throne established forever, and Jesus builds a house for God.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Note that the Davidian covenant was conditional concerning the everlasting Kingdom

In other words, if David’s line does not remain faithful to God, the Kingdom would be stripped away. And that is what happened as well.

Not David’s line, Solomon’s line. David had one promise, Solomon had another. Solomon lost his, David still has his.

jewishmag.com/33MAG/messiah/messiah.htm

Yeah they are looking for a human Messiah from Solomon’s line, not a God or Jesus though. And a lot of them say all Jews themselves are Messiah too.

No. The Seed of the Woman is Jesus. And the Seed of the Woman is those who keep the Commandments of God.

The Seed of the Serpent is those who disobey God. The Seed of the Serpent is also the AntiChrist. In fact, Mohammed, the denier of the Divinity of Christ is a member of this seed.

From Jeremiah and Daniel the seed of woman are Jews the faithful of which represented by Jesus; the seed of the Serpent are all the Gentile kingdoms of the Beast that rule over Jews, like Rome. So we are both correct in that, but symbolisms apply differently according to later prophecies.

However the Quran says Jesus is Messiah, which means Christ, so the Quran is not Antichrist. There is only one religion in the whole entire world that allows its members to enjoy every type of belief there is, except for belief in Jesus as Christ, and that would be Judaism.

22 Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.

Yet the Quran describes a virgin birth. Why? After all, there is no need for a virgin birth in the Quran since to Muslims, Jesus is a simple and ordinary man.

And that Kingdom would be Christian. As we have in the Church. Not Mohamedan. So why does Islam have Christ being born of a Virgin?

No one seems to know why it HAS to be a virgin except me I guess. That I’ve ever met, anyway. Just one of those mysteries…

 

[De_Maria]

It wasn’t fulfilled, that house was destroyed, another Temple built, and that destroyed too.

Yes, it was. Read it again.

Solomon’s throne wasn’t established forever, it died with Babylon.

Again, David’s covenant was conditional. As long as his children and grandchildren obeyed God, they would remain on the throne.

Only Jesus has a throne established forever, and Jesus builds a house for God.

I’m glad that you a Muslim recognize this. Now recognize that the House which Jesus built is the Catholic Church. And it remains forever.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Again, I am glad you recognize that Jesus body is the Temple of God. Note that the Church is recognized as the Body of Christ.

Not David’s line, Solomon’s line. David had one promise, Solomon had another. Solomon lost his, David still has his.

Solomon is of David’s line. It is very clear that Solomon is allowed to remain on the throne because of God’s covenant with David. But then after Solomon dies, God takes the Kingdom from David’s line and gives it to the 12.

Read it again.

Yeah they are looking for a human Messiah from Solomon’s line, not a God or Jesus though. And a lot of them say all Jews themselves are Messiah too.

Way off topic. The question here is why is Jesus born of a Virgin in Muslim theology when they consider him a mere human?

From Jeremiah and Daniel the seed of woman are Jews the faithful of which represented by Jesus; the seed of the Serpent are all the Gentile kingdoms of the Beast that rule over Jews, like Rome. So we are both correct in that, but symbolisms apply differently according to later prophecies.

However the Quran says Jesus is Messiah, which means Christ, so the Quran is not Antichrist. There is only one religion in the whole entire world that allows its members to enjoy every type of belief there is, except for belief in Jesus as Christ, and that would be Judaism.

22 Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.

Yet Islam denies the Father and the Son. They do not consder God the Father nor God the Son. So, it seems to me they are antiChrist according to Scripture.

No one seems to know why it HAS to be a virgin except me I guess. That I’ve ever met, anyway. Just one of those mysteries…

I thought that Islam was so simple as to have solved all mysteries?

Anyway, I think you and I have exhausted this topic. I will respond if you have anything further to say.

Before I bid you adieu, I’d like to mention that I enjoy your style. In my opinion, you are the only Muslim on this board who actually addresses the questions.

And I admire your knowledge of Scripture. Although you err because you don’t consider the Catholic Teaching, I believe your efforts are sincere.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Yes, it was. Read it again.

Again, David’s covenant was conditional. As long as his children and grandchildren obeyed God, they would remain on the throne.

David’s promise wasn’t conditional. There are two aspects to David’s promise.

2 Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Solomon’s throne and kingdom weren’t established forever, it fell partially with the split from Israel, then altogether with Babylon.

2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

David’s throne would be established forever no matter what. So if David’s throne is established forever starting with David, and David will never fail to have a man on the throne, the next one to take it is his own son, and in Jesus it is established forever.

I’m glad that you a Muslim recognize this. Now recognize that the House which Jesus built is the Catholic Church. And it remains forever.

The Church will fall with Islam and all the other religions when Jesus returns. This is the body and Temple of Jesus and the true House that Jesus builds:

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Again, I am glad you recognize that Jesus body is the Temple of God. Note that the Church is recognized as the Body of Christ.

The church as such is all believers, not some denomination of Christianity. Or Islam, or any other religion. They are all too corrupted to remain forever, these religions are the poopy diaper we baby believers make a mess in for a while until Jesus comes to make everything clean. Then they are thrown out.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Solomon is of David’s line. It is very clear that Solomon is allowed to remain on the throne because of God’s covenant with David. But then after Solomon dies, God takes the Kingdom from David’s line and gives it to the 12.

Well God leaves only Judah for Solomon then that also is taken away with Babylon. Only David has promise of a kingdom.

Way off topic. The question here is why is Jesus born of a Virgin in Muslim theology when they consider him a mere human?

You posted the Jewish link, I was addressing their beliefs.

Yet Islam denies the Father and the Son. They do not consder God the Father nor God the Son. So, it seems to me they are antiChrist according to Scripture.

The Quran doesn’t deny Jesus is Christ, it just denies that God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus and make Mary the third of the Trinity.

I thought that Islam was so simple as to have solved all mysteries?

I’ve been critical of Islam all along here.

Anyway, I think you and I have exhausted this topic. I will respond if you have anything further to say.

Before I bid you adieu, I’d like to mention that I enjoy your style. In my opinion, you are the only Muslim on this board who actually addresses the questions.

And I admire your knowledge of Scripture. Although you err because you don’t consider the Catholic Teaching, I believe your efforts are sincere.

Ok thanks.

 

[inJESUS]

You agree that God’s Word existed eternally as God, so it would be God’s Word that did the creating.

yes

You also agree that the human spirit and nature of Jesus did not exist eternally as God, God’s Word took it on at some point.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

yes, that’s what i know. and this happened loong time after the creation of David’s son by the Word. The point is at the Incarnation of Jesus.

 

[De_Maria]

Ok, I guess my goodbye was premature. I thought the verses I presented were clear.

David’s promise wasn’t conditional.

Yes, it was.

There are two aspects to David’s promise.

And one of them is conditional.

2 Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

But we don’t interpret Scripture in a vaccuum. God had more to say concerning David’s kingdom:

14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son: and if he commit any iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men. 15 But my mercy I will not take away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before my face.

Note the “if clause”. Now let us see what God said He would do when Solomon committed iniquity. Note also that Solomon is repeating the covenant as it was taught him by King David:

3 Kings 8
25 Now therefore, O Lord God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father what thou hast spoken to him, saying: There shall not be taken away of thee a man in my sight, to sit on the throne of Israel: yet so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked in my sight.

In other words, if King David’s children walk before God, they will remain on the throne.

Then when King Solomon committed iniquity, God left him on the throne to keep his promise to King David and took the Kingdom from Solomon’s son also to keep the promise he made to King David:

3 Kings 11
33 Because he hath forsaken me, and hath adored Astarthe the goddess of the Sidonians, and Chamos the god of Moab, and Moloch the god of the children of Ammon: and hath not walked in my ways, to do justice before me, and to keep my precepts, and judgments as did David his father. 34 Yet I will not take away all the kingdom out of his hand, but I will make him prince all the days of his life, for David my servant’s sake, whom I chose, who kept my commandments and my precepts. 35 But I will take away the kingdom out of his son’s hand and will give thee ten tribes:

36 And to his son I will give one tribe, that there may remain a lamp for my servant David before me always in Jerusalem the city which I have chosen, that my name might be there.

Solomon’s throne and kingdom weren’t established forever, it fell partially with the split from Israel, then altogether with Babylon.

2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Again, you skipped over 2 Sam 7:14 which explains what God will do if they commit iniquity.

In addition, you are under the impression that 2 Sam 7 contains the entire covenant. Yet it is clear that Samuel only revealed a portion of it. The rest of it was revealed by Solomon in the verse I presented.

David’s throne would be established forever no matter what. So if David’s throne is established forever starting with David, and David will never fail to have a man on the throne, the next one to take it is his own son, and in Jesus it is established forever.

Again, you are interpreting according to your understanding. But Scripture says,

Proverbs 3
5 Have confidence in the Lord with all thy heart, and lean not upon thy own prudence.

God has always provided leaders to whom we are to go for interpretation and explanation of His Word:

Exodus 18
15 And Moses answered him: The people come to me to seek the judgment of God.

So, lets interpret it correctly:

8 And now thus shalt thou speak to my servant David:

God is instructing Nathan what he is supposed to tell David.

• Thus saith the Lord of hosts: a I took thee out of the pastures from following the sheep to be ruler over my people Israel: *

God selected David from* following sheep to ruling His People.*

9 And I have been with thee wheresoever thou hast walked, and have slain all thy enemies from before thy face:

All that has been credited to David has been God’s doing.

• and I have made thee a great man, like unto the name of the great ones that are on the earth. *

And God has made David great among men

10 And I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and I will plant them, and they shall dwell therein, and shall be disturbed no more: neither shall the children of iniquity afflict them any more as they did before,

God shifts from speaking about worldly good to eternal good.

CONT’D