To Planten or any other Muslim

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planten said:
This is not the Muslim belief. Gabriel is an angel and angels do not do any mischief or sin. Muslims do not believe ( like the christians also do not believe) that any one impregnated Mary for the birth of Jesus.

Ibn Kathir wrote:

<And We breathed INTO IT (PRIVATE PART) through Our Ruh,> meaning, THROUGH THE ANGEL JIBRIL. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded HIM TO BLOW INTO A GAP OF HER GARMENT and that BREATH into her womb through her private part; THIS IS HOW ‘ISA WAS CONCEIVED.

Al-Tabari wrote:

When the angel spoke thus, she submitted to the divine decree, and he breathed into HER BOSOM. Then he left her, and she filled her pitcher.

According to Muhammad b. Sahl b. ‘Askar al-Bukhari- Isma’il b. ‘Abd al-Karim- ‘Abd al-Samad b. Ma’qil, the son of the brother of Wahb- Wahb: When God sent **Gabriel **to Mary, he appeared to her as a shapely man. She then said, ‘I take refuge in the All Merciful from you, if you fear God!’ Then **he **breathed into the opening of her garment, THE BREATH REACHED HER WOMB, and she conceived Jesus

The claim that Gabriel breathed into Mary would logically make Gabriel the speaker in S. 21:91 and 66:12:

“And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We (Gabriel!)breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.” 21:91

“And Mary the daughter of Ìmrán, who guarded her chastity; and We (Gabriel!) breathed into it of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).” S. 66:12

If the Quran is the word of Allah, and Allah is the one speaking in Quran, the previous ayas make Gabriel Allah!

This also means that Gabriel has a Spirit that he uses to create life. This would make Gabriel the Creator, which is Shirk with Allah according the this aya:

But when He giveth them a goodly child,** they ascribe to others a share in the gift they have received**: but Allah is exalted high above the partners they ascribe to Him. Do they indeed ascribe to Him as partners things that can create nothing, but are themselves created?"
That was a good news man. The angel appeared in the form a most suitable man when he passed the news to Mary. There is no harm in that. And Mary was also right when she said: “I seek refuge with The Lord from you if you are also a pious person”
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inJESUS said:
Booklover;3150786:
as a matter of fact, some do believe it was Gabriel who breathed into Mary’s “private parts” ! which gives the impression it was Gabriel who gave life!..i do not see it in any different way.
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That is wrong and if any foolish Muslim is believeing like that (That Gabriel impregnated Mary) then it is no use to any one. Let us stay here on forum, if any one on the forum is saying like that. If not then the remarks must be ignored as an accusation which is not proved. It may be the idea of InJesus only,

The breathing of the spirit was not by the angel. It was done by Allah and not by the angel. It will be explained later. In the meantime, I ask the christian friends here about Jesus being a god. When did he actually become god?? At birth or much later?? Please tell exactly when did Jesus become god??
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planten said:
That is wrong and if any foolish Muslim is believeing like that (That Gabriel impregnated Mary) then it is no use to any one. Let us stay here on forum, if any one on the forum is saying like that. If not then the remarks must be ignored as an accusation which is not proved. It may be the idea of InJesus only,
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Ex-Muslims believe that and so do other translators. Can you explain why ex-
Muslims have a different interpretation of this? Planten, please use a bigger typestyle, (font) since your posts are hard to read.
The breathing of the spirit was not by the angel. It was done by Allah and not by the angel. It will be explained later. In the meantime, I ask the christian friends here about Jesus being a god. When did he actually become god?? At birth or much later?? Please tell exactly when did Jesus become god??
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That’s not what the quote that InJesus posted said. Jesus has always been God, even before he was born of Mary. He is and always has been the second person of the Blessed Trinity, one God in three persons. That’s why he said once “Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God…The Word was made flesh, he lived among us, and we saw his glory, the glory that is his as the only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Vickie
 
Why Jesus is called the **Word of God **and **the Word from God **in the Quran. And why not Mohammad? If Jesus is an ordinary human, why he was born of a virgin without a human father. Who is greater then, Jesus or Mohammad? Somebody, especially Muslims please help.

Thanks.
 
Reuben_J said:
Why Jesus is called the **Word of God **and **the Word from God **in the Quran. And why not Mohammad? If Jesus is an ordinary human, why he was born of a virgin without a human father. Who is greater then, Jesus or Mohammad? Somebody, especially Muslims please help.
Thanks.
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Hi

This “born without a father” is not a thing in which Jesus took pride in. Kindly mention if he did.

Thanks
 
Hi

I would like to paste here two posts posted by me on another thread, which have a relationship here also.

Quote:
Code: 
Originally Posted by **episcogirl ** 
I don't want to be disrespectful, it's just I don't know much about this subject, so I tread lightly.

But, I was taught that the God of Abraham and the God of Ishmael are the same God.

Therefore, Allah would have to love humans as he created them.

I don't know if I am right in this. I don't want to offend. But, if I am wrong, I would appreciate a correction in this matter.
Code: 
Quote:
Originally Posted by **ShortyLaRock_82  **
I don't mean to nit-pick:

The God of Abraham, ISAAC, and Jacob.
Response from paarsurrey

Hi

I think episcogirl was taught the right concept, which is not racial.

Ishmael was also a promised son of Abraham and included in the Covenant, that is why he was circumcised, which is one of the signs of Covenant.

Could anyone please clarify how the following prophecy was fullfilled:

Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
Genesis 17:26
Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that same day.

Thanks
 
Re: Does Allah Love Humans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chellow
.
My understanding is that Ishmael descendents are the Muslims.
Genesis 17:20
.
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Response from paarsurrey:

Hi

So, you undestand like me that a DivineReligion has to be broad minded, and Ishmael was also part of the Covenant. When Jesus was born without a father ( according to the primitive customs, sons and daughters were ascribed to the male members) that meant that after the fullfillment of the prophecy about Isaac for a long time; it was a warning to Jews that due to the Jews’ planning an **attempted murder of Jesus **( in line with their attempts to kill other Jewish ProphetsMessenger) now the time had come for a change of hands from Isaac to the descendants of Ishmael.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

This “born without a father” is not a thing in which Jesus took pride in. Kindly mention if he did.

Thanks
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this answer, am afraid, is irrelevent to the fact that He was born to no father. The Quran as well stresses this fact as something done by Allah, not a “natural” thing since Allah sent an angel specifically to tell Mary about it…so why did Allah make a miracle that was neither seen nor proved by anyone?
 
CTA1967, on the topic of virgin births, I believe that Paarsurrey is correct. A couple of years back, I remember hearing on EWTN a priest with a medical background state that there are occurrances of virgin births, however the babies born are always female and never male. He gave a name for this anomaly, but I wasn’t able to write it down at the time. Maybe there is someone who reads this who can respond with the technical term or at least more information.
 
Sorry, but I just finished reading all the posts in this thread and wonder if the sutblities of the Christian concept of Jesus conception aren’t lost on our Muslim readers or for that matter why Jesus had no earthly father. We who are Christians do not use the term Jesus was “created” but “begotten.” When man or anything is created by God, we become his creature or creation and in no way can ever be considered God but only his handiwork. However, we do not use the term created in referring to Jesus for he was"begotten and not made" we allude to the fact that Jesus is the son of the Father and as a son has all the divine attributes that come with being the second person of our Divine Trinity. This is the reason if you who are Muslims wonder why Jesus can refer to himself in a secondary positiion to God the Father and yet consider himself equal to God, it is because of the fact that having been begotten he still retains all the qualities of a son to a father which still make him God though he went through the process of being Incarnated as man. I can only hope that this post gives some clarity to what has gone earlier in this thread.
 
Hi

Some friends here want to know as to why Jesus was born without a father?

There could be several answers to this “why?”
  1. This was a warning to the Jews that their part in the Covenant was finished, due to their continuous antagonism for the ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH; no more ProphetsMessengers from their off-springs would come. They (the Jews )would only witness wrath of GodAllahYHWH and destruction to them and their city Jerusalem; and that is what happened.
  2. **The Jews **were a male dominant people; they were now symbolically told that they were destined **not to father any ProphetMessenger **of GodAllahYHWH. Now the time had come for a change of hands from Isaac to the descendants of Ishmael.
That is what I understand; others could differ if they opt to.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
  1. **The Jews **were a male dominant people; they were now symbolically told that they were destined **not to father any ProphetMessenger **of GodAllahYHWH. Now the time had come for a change of hands from Isaac to the descendants of Ishmael.
That is what I understand; others could differ if they opt to.

Thanks
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As I understand it, whether you are Jewish or not is decided by whether you have a Jewish mother. Also, just because no more prophets would be born to the Jews, it does not mean that any would be born to the descendants of Ishmael.

God Bless

Peter
 
Why Jesus is called the **Word of God **and **the Word from God **in the Quran. And why not Mohammad?

Thanks. 🙂
 
paarsurrey said:
  1. This was a warning to the Jews…no more ProphetsMessengers from their off-springs would come.
1- Mary was a Jew
2- Joseph, who raised Him, and who was thought to be his father, was a Jew.
3- Jews was known to all Jews as a Jew.

result : number 1 is a wrong, non-historical argument.
  1. **The Jews **
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dolphinlove said:
inJESUS;3165279:
If they answer this with a realistic answer, i will become a muslim!
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And I still have my questions.

And many more which I have not disclosed yet, out of respect for our friend paarsurrey.

And yes, I, too, will consider converting, if I get the right answers.
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Reuben_J said:
dolphinlove;3165685:
And I still have my questions.

And many more which I have not disclosed yet, out of respect for our friend paarsurrey.

And yes, I, too, will consider converting, if I get the right answers.
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And to say that, I know im VERY confident in my faith for them to unable to give a logical answer. I know i wont have to convert
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