To Protestants: HAPPY REFORMATION DAY

[Richard_Abanes]

Guan: Keeping an eye out for trolls, cynics, and beard pluckers.

RA: Understood.

**Po18: **Well, maybe a simple change to a questioning format instead of a statement format. Ask, we’ll answer. But, it remains the Holy Spirit Who does all converting. Our words will mean nothing to you without the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

RA: Maybe you misunderstand. I’m not at all interested in converting. LoL. No, I am an ex-Catholic. been there. Done that. And I know plenty about the RCC. That’s not why I’m here either.

CW: But to come on a Catholic website and celebrate the reformation…don’t tell me you don’t see a problem with this.

RA: It is a RC board with Protestant posters plenty. great topic for conversation if you ask me.

RA

 

[guanophore]

RA: Maybe you misunderstand. I’m not at all interested in converting. LoL. No, I am an ex-Catholic. been there. Done that. And I know plenty about the RCC. That’s not why I’m here either.

RA: It is a RC board with Protestant posters plenty. great topic for conversation if you ask me.

RA

Catholicism is not “Roman”. The purpose of CAF is to answer sincere questions from those who have a genuine inquiry. It is not a venue for you to spew your anti-Catholic bias and ignorance.

It is not here for you to “fellowship” and rejoice over wounds to the Body.

However, I agree, the Reformation, or as some here are fond of calling it, the Deformation, is a good topic for discussion.

 

[adstrinity]

Catholicism is not “Roman”. The purpose of CAF is to answer sincere questions from those who have a genuine inquiry. It is not a venue for you to spew your anti-Catholic bias and ignorance.

It is not here for you to “fellowship” and rejoice over wounds to the Body.

However, I agree, the Reformation, or as some here are fond of calling it, the Deformation, is a good topic for discussion.

One topic of the deformation is why did the Deformers hate Jesus? And, do we believe, though we can’t really have proof, that the Deformers are in hell right now? Should I say prayers for the Reformers tonight when I go to the Mozart Requium Mass?

 

[Richard_Abanes]

Guan,

Then I suggest you write a formal complaint to the moderators and let them ban me if that is there desire. I will abide by their decision. Please do make the results of your complaint public and let me know when a formal complaint has been filed. I eagerly await the decision of the moderators and Admins about whether or not my purpose here is acceptable.

As I posted elsewhere:
I am here to talk. Listen to how others express themselves – and enjoy seeing how people think and express why they believe what they believe. I’m a professional religion journalist – I like doing research, reading, talking, probing, investigating, learning.

This is, as I see it, fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ. It’s too bad you seem to think that the Internet is Northern Ireland.

RA

 

[Richard_Abanes]

ADS: One topic of the deformation is why did the Deformers hate Jesus?

RA: I take it then that your answer is NO, you are not going to apologize for such a hateful, lie-based remark.

It’s sad to see Roman Catholics represented so shamefully. But it reminds me a lot of the people I grew up with. TY for bring back great memories.

R.A.

 

[Soutane]

For me the happiest Reformation Day will be the first one Lutheran and Catholics can once again share the Sacrament of the Altar together.

Jon

Amen

 

[adstrinity]

Alright, Richard, I’ll bite, why should I apologize for telling the truth?

And why are you letting this upset you? They hated Jesus and now they are dead. They don’t care what I say.

I will pray that you do not dwell on this as it cannot be good for your spiritual relationship with your fellow brothers and sisters and it takes you away from loving God.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

JON:For me the happiest Reformation Day will be the first one Lutheran and Catholics can once again share the Sacrament of the Altar together.

RA: Ain’t gonna ever happen with comments like this: “One topic of the deformation is why did the Deformers hate Jesus” That’s pure hate-filled, confrontational, mean-spirited, nastiness that is begging for a fight. (ADStrinity needs to go to confession.)

RA

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that **those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. **

Something tells me the “Reformers” don’t celebrate Reformation Day in Heaven.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

adstrinity,

If you at all truly think that the Reformers ***HATED ***Jesus Christ, God in Flesh, perfect and holy, who died on the cross for their sins and by whom they were saved and teh personal Lord and Savior they sought to follow with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength ---- then you have a reality problem that I cannot even begin to deal with, and I won’t bother trying.

I pray that a RC comes along and lovingly counsels you.

Any conversations between you and I are over because that kind of warped, twisted, and hateful remark shows a mindset that is not open to talking lovingly, openly, and honestly.

R.A.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

From Phoenix Preacher Blog…

Today we celebrate the birth of the Protestant Reformation, the day Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenburg church. Luthers objective was not to split the church or start a new movement, but to reform that which was already in place.

We seek to walk in that well worn path with a heart for reforming and rebuilding, not just dividing and tearing down. Remember our heritage today…it should be a special day for all of us in Protestant and Lutheran traditions.
…

Oh Happy Day!!! :extrahappy: :dancing: :extrahappy:
ra

Kyrie eleison.
Christe eleison.
Kyrie eleison.

Mr. Abanes, I’m afraid that you, like myself, were one of the millions of poorly catechized. I pray that your coming here to CAF will help you learn what the Catholic Church truly teaches, as opposed to the misconceptions you seem to now hold.

Love is Patient

 

[adstrinity]

adstrinity,

If you at all truly think that the Reformers ***HATED ***Jesus Christ, God in Flesh, perfect and holy, who died on the cross for their sins and by whom they were saved and teh personal Lord and Savior they sought to follow with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength ---- then you have a reality problem that I cannot even begin to deal with, and I won’t bother trying.

I pray that a RC comes along and lovingly counsels you.

Any conversations between you and I are over because that kind of warped, twisted, and hateful remark shows a mindset that is not open to talking lovingly, openly, and honestly.

R.A.

Yes, I truly think that they legitimately hated Jesus (except poor Martin Luther, where there are extenuating circumstances), because they clearly cared more about themselves then about God.

God said, “Whoever hears you, hears me,” to His Apostles. The Reformers did not listen to Jesus.

God said, “Why are you persecuting me?” when it came to Saul persecuting His Church. The Church is the body of Jesus.

God said, “Not all who says, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter Heaven.” The Reformers said all one needs is not works.

This is the religion of man. Man says leave what God has done. Some man said I wish to divorce, some man said, some are predestined and it doesn’t matter. God did not do that. Only somebody who hates God and loves himself does that.

I can see why this makes you uncomfortable.

Well, even if you don’t read this, or communicate back, I hope that this has shed some light for the lurkers.

As a matter of fact, maybe they didn’t hate Jesus. Maybe they didn’t even KNOW Jesus enough to hate him. …Perhaps they were so ignorant, they didn’t know what they were doing, because they certainly got their message wrong. Hmmmm…maybe they just didn’t know.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

**Love: **I pray that your coming here to CAF will help you learn what the Catholic Church truly teaches, as opposed to the misconceptions you seem to now hold.

RA: Interesting.

Please tell me what apparent false notions I have of the RCC that would indicate I was “poorly catechized.”

Also bear in mind that I am a professional religion journalist recognized in the area of religion research. So, basically, not that I mind, but your remark is tantamount to saying to me – if I were a plumber – that I have poorly taught with regard to a certain system of home piping systems.

So, again, I ask that you enumerate EXACTLY, point by point, what I have stated here at CAF that indicates I was poorly catechized. Thank you. (Such point, of course, must have nothing to do with my studies post-leaving the RCC).

I am most interested to know, in fact, how you’re even going to do this, since you weren’t there when I was catechized and I’ve never listed everything I learned through my catechism classes.

R.A.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

**Love: **I pray that your coming here to CAF will help you learn what the Catholic Church truly teaches, as opposed to the misconceptions you seem to now hold.

RA: Interesting.

Please tell me what apparent false notions I have of the RCC that would indicate I was “poorly catechized.”

Also bear in mind that I am a professional religion journalist recognized in the area of religion research. So, basically, not that I mind, but your remark is tantamount to saying to me – if I were a plumber – that I have poorly taught with regard to a certain system of home piping systems.

So, again, I ask that you enumerate EXACTLY, point by point, what I have stated here at CAF that indicates I was poorly catechized. Thank you. (Such point, of course, must have nothing to do with my studies post-leaving the RCC).

I am most interested to know, in fact, how you’re even going to do this, since you weren’t there when I was catechized and I’ve never listed everything I learned through my catechism classes.

R.A.

RA,

I will have an answer for you shortly. It will take time for me to go through your posts. Please be patient with me.

Love is Patient

 

[Richard_Abanes]

ADS,

My final word to you because you win the prize. I’ve never heard a RC say something so egregious, hateful, ignorant, and divisive in a public forum. :sad_yes:

I have copied your statement and, since it is a matter of pubic record, I will be using it in print at some point to show the extreme views that can be taken by Roman Catholics who express ungodly animosity for non-Roma Catholics. :tiphat:

Your counterpart in the evangelical world are those Fundamentalists who spew all manner of hatred toward Roman Catholics, call priests servants of Satan, and point to every Pope who has ever lived as a minion of demons.

Congratulations.:clapping:

And BTW, it doesn’t surprise me that you would be so vicious in your words. As I said earlier, you reminded me of those whom I grew up with and who were filled with all manner of contention, anger, misinformation, lovelessness, and an un-Christ-like spirit.

Then, I noticed your location. CHICAGO, ILL.

I had to smile. I am from just outside Chicago. Yes, I see that the kind of Roman Catholicism I grew up with is still alive and well back home. You confirmed so much for me. I thank you. It’s wonderful to be free.

I wish you all the best, and pray for you to be healed by the loving physician of all who seek him – King Jesus.

R.A

 

[JonNC]

JON:For me the happiest Reformation Day will be the first one Lutheran and Catholics can once again share the Sacrament of the Altar together.

RA: Ain’t gonna ever happen with comments like this: “One topic of the deformation is why did the Deformers hate Jesus” That’s pure hate-filled, confrontational, mean-spirited, nastiness that is begging for a fight. (ADStrinity needs to go to confession.)

RA

I think, pray, believe it can and will happen, in part, because the leadership of Rome believes it can.

In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church/I272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Toward unity

820 “Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, **and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time.”**277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

821 Certain things are required in order to respond adequately to this call:

• a permanent renewal of the Church in greater fidelity to her vocation; such renewal is the driving-force of the movement toward unity;280

• conversion of heart as the faithful “try to live holier lives according to the Gospel”;281 for it is the unfaithfulness of the members to Christ’s gift which causes divisions;

- prayer in common, because “change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name 'spiritual ecumenism;”'282

• fraternal knowledge of each other;283

• ecumenical formation of the faithful and especially of priests;284

• dialogue among theologians and meetings among Christians of the different churches and communities;285

• collaboration among Christians in various areas of service to mankind.286 “Human service” is the idiomatic phrase.

822 Concern for achieving unity "involves the whole Church, faithful and clergy alike."287 But we must realize “that this holy objective - the reconciliation of all Christians in the unity of the one and only Church of Christ - transcends human powers and gifts.” That is why we place all our hope "in the prayer of Christ for the Church, in the love of the Father for us, and in the power of the Holy Spirit."288

As for how we respond to our brothers and sisters in Christ, I often remember Luther’s treatment of the 8th Commandment thus:

The Eighth Commandment.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

I may not always succeed in this, but I do try.

Jon

 

[cfrancis]

RA: ***Did you forget about sin? The Holy Spirit guides sinners. And sinners sometimes get things wrong. ***That includes you, me, your co-worker, those leading the RCC, those leading the Anglicans, my own pastor, other pastors, members of the EO, my Protestant neighbor, etc. I factor sin into the equation.
R.A.

How consistent are you with your position highlighted above?

BTW, I enjoyed your books Harry Potter, Narnia, And The Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter and the Bible: The Menace Behind the Magick . You gave voice to my thoughts re: the distinction b/n Tolkein/Lewis and Harry Potter

 

[Richard_Abanes]

**cfrancis: **How consistent are you with your position highlighted above?

RA: I try to be as consistent as I can be as a sinner myself.

RA

P.S. Thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help.
Tolkien is my hero – and he was a RC!!!

 

[cfrancis]

**cfrancis: **How consistent are you with your position highlighted above?

RA: I try to be as consistent as I can be as a sinner myself.

I understand about being a sinner if I was speaking of “in practice.”
More specifically, I’m asking how intellectually consistent you are with the principle you provided:
"Did you forget about sin? The Holy Spirit guides sinners. And sinners sometimes get things wrong."

P.S. Thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help.
Tolkien is my hero – and he was a RC!!!

I certainly recognized, by your writing, that you harbored no ill-will or anti-Catholic biases.
I am surprised to find you were born, baptised, and raised Catholic; based on my experience as a born, baptised, and raised Catholic who stopped practicing the faith and attempted to leave the Church, yet returned to the faith the more I read the Bible and studied history, poor catechesis was a large part of my struggles.

 

[adstrinity]

(ADStrinity needs to go to confession.)

RA

Now this is rather telling. Could this be Richard’s inner Catholic speaking out, wanting to get out? That is, this is a rather odd thing for somebody who has left the Sacrements. Could it be that deep down Richard knows that God is present in His Sacraments and Richard really wants to come back to them? Hmmm?

Richard, I say something that offends you and instead of trying to find out where I’m coming from, you decide to insult me and stop speaking to me? …I could swear I have heard this happen sometime within history…

That’s okay. I’ll still pray for you.