To Protestants: HAPPY REFORMATION DAY

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Peter_J said:
So you can’t go back to Constantinople?
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No, you can’t go back to Constantinople.
Been a long time gone, Constantinople.
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That’s nobody’s business but the Turks. 😃
 
Ghoti said:
No, you can’t go back to Constantinople.
Been a long time gone, Constantinople.
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That’s nobody’s business but the Turks. 😃
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Even old New York
Was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can’t say,
I guess they liked it better that waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy…
 
Richard_Abanes said:
**AG: **So, the Holy Spirit is leading an guideing the Catholic What’s actually laughable is that you would allow sinful others, who CLAIM to be led by the Holy Spirit, to make decisions FOR you. And tell YOU what the Bible says. And run YOUR spiritual life. And determine what YOU should eat on Fridays and how YOU should and shouldn’t have sex…

Wait, that’s not laughable at all. :crying:
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Richard, in your quest for charity in this thread, could you stop laughing or crying for a moment, and please join us in another thread to discuss interpretation, and we can try to leave this thread on topic to celebrating Happy Protestant Day.
 
JonNC said:
That’s not my understanding. My understanding is this was a regular practice, to spread a message or spark a dialogue, perhaps not unlike this board. Luther was, afterall, a theologian.
He was a Catholic monk, and professor in Wittenburg. It was his church. Your scenario implies he was egging his own house.

Jon
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It must also be remembered that only 36 of Luther’s 95 theses were ever condemned as heretical. A more humble man could have returned to Germany with a mandate of 59 heretical practices to be purged from the Church, surely more than a lifetime’s work for any saint.
 
Richard Abanes;4368544 said:
RA:
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Yes, remind me of the beliefs about Mary that I said I had learned as a Roman Catholic that are/were wrong. As far as I can see, I only noted what I believe about Mary now.

And I only alluded to what I had been taught about Mary as a Roman Catholic in my statement, “Sorry, Mary died just like everyone else.” But I explained this, as follows:

I said, “Mary died just like everyone else.” The last I checked we all do not die an get assumed into heaven with body and soul intact. So, no, it is not RCC teaches that Mary died just like all of us, which is why I am saying to you that she died “just like everyone else.” Her body saw corruption and she is waiting for the resurrection like everyone else who has died (Yesterday, 8:55 pm).

So, again, please do remind us all of my false beliefs about Mary that I said I learned as a RC and I quoted here on this board.

RA

RA. Second, you must remember I am NOT RC. I am an evangelical who sees her as blessed above all women, as scripture says. But I also accept what she herself stated in her beautiful magnificant – i.e., that she, like all of us was in need of a SAVIOR: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” (Luke 1:46-47).

You need a savior when you are a sinner. And Mary, was a sinner, like all of us. That is my view from scripture.** And I say this as an ex-Catholic, so i know the difference.**

Mary was never given a special place of honor in scripture, even by Jesus. And the Bible makes it fairly clear that Jesus had half-brothers and sisters (and for the record, there is NOTHING ultra-uber-special-holy about not having sex). Moreover, obviously, there is not even a HINT of Mary’s bodily assumption.

Third, I am going to assume with Mary what I assume with anyone else – unless told otherwise by God. And God hasn’t said anything about Mary being ascended. So, there you go.

None of this statements of yours were ever Catholic beliefs by your view negative or positive. To get an understanding of Mary’s immaculate conception, you first should understand what original sin is? as far as biblical references to the doctrines I would be happy to entertain you, So please leave your opinon as opinion not christian belief unless you care to add a name from antiquity who believe as you do.

Also I hope as to not engage in a he said, she said dialogue. All I hope to express here is that you dont claim Catholic status unless you correctly explain what Catholics believe about Mary. IF you care to express your view with credence, then add authority of scripture or a Sacred Traditional teachings. It would be hard to accept a name from the 20th century as your view of Christianity to carry any weight, as far the reformers, you have no one in agreement with you there either, except protest 2000 years of Catholic Chrisitan belief and Tradition.
 
gabriel: etc etc etc.

**RA: **Sorry, your post was very confusingly written. Please list one by one – 1. 2. 3. 4. etc. - EXACTLY what RC teaching I alleged about Mary that I was taught that was wrong. Sorry, chalk it up to me being dense – but i can’t understand your points as written.

R.A.
 
Richard_Abanes said:
**Gab: **14 million aztecs converted to Catholicism by the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. God always has a remnant saved.

RA: Yeah, the Aztecs, and many other peoples, had all kinds of pagan goddesses. Such apparitions were common – and still are in some areas. The RCC said, “Hey, that’s Mary. if you become RC we won’t kill all of you.”

Historian William B. Taylor recounted that Guadalupe has also been “acclaimed goddess of the maguey [agave]” and *pulque *was drunk on her feast day. A 1772 report described the rays of light around Guadalupe as maguey spines.

Yup. RC + paganism strikes again. 😦 Just a thought. (I’m assuming you are probably referring to Our Lady of Guadalupe).

RA
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Cynicism is the opposite of faith. Who is the opposite of Christ?
 
po18: Cynicism is the opposite of faith…

RA: Well, that was a clever dig, I’ll say that.

But I’m not being cynical at all. And cynicism isn’t the true opposite of faith. Disbelief/doubt is, which is actually different than being cynical. And even then, disbelief/doubt isn’t bad if what you doubt is worthy of doubt.

R.A
 
Richard_Abanes said:
**CW: **Yeah, the Aztecs, and many other peoples, had all kinds of pagan goddesses. Such apparitions were common – and still are in some areas.

**RA: **This is a viable, completely charitable view from someone who does NOT believe that Mary appeared to the Aztecs. What would you have me say as an evangelical who doesn’t accept Marian apparitions? I’m not going to gush, “Oh, wow! yes, it was really her, which goes completely against what I see in scripture, what i believe in my heart, and what makes sense to my mind.”

Look, you must leave room for disagreeing and also for alternative explanations from a non-RC position. As for my comment, “RC + paganism strikes again,” it is documented worldwide that in various third world countries RC has merged its beliefs, ceremonies, and social/communal activities with rural folk magick, the occult, and traditional paganism.

At least I have not said anything like, “Hey let’s get back on topic: Why do Roman Catholics hate Jesus?”

R.A.
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Wow-the horror- :eek: Christmas is Christianized saturnalia,The Christmastree(Martin Luther loved it) was a pagan symbol christianized-there are literally hundreds of merges that happened-most we aren’t even aware of. Converting people to a new way of believing has to be done with a certain amount of respect for the previous culture which you are altering.You don’t want to lose the previous culture.Catholics from the past have been accused of messing with culture. We are more sensitive to that now- to lose the culture is to lose the people.fortunately we are not llike some missionaries who want everyone to be little white Americans with three piece suits and KJBible and pushing the Protestant Work Ethic making everyone Happy Protestant Capitalists. By the way Mexico moved closer to the church after Guadalupe but the culture of Mexico with the image of a suffering god(Xipe Totec) the flayed god, made it easy for Catholics to talk about Jesus, and for them to grasp it.:rolleyes:
 
Richard_Abanes said:
po18: Cynicism is the opposite of faith…

RA: Well, that was a clever dig, I’ll say that.

But I’m not being cynical at all. And cynicism isn’t the true opposite of faith. Disbelief/doubt is, which is actually different than being cynical. And even then, disbelief/doubt isn’t bad if what you doubt is worthy of doubt.

R.A
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It’s not a dig, It’s the truth. Was your post a dig? You are not Catholic, so why do you come here and pluck our beards with your doubts and cynicism? You are free to believe or disbelieve anything at all. I find it rather provocative, that’s all.
 
Julia: You don’t want to lose the previous culture.Catholics from the past have been accused of messing with culture. We are more sensitive to that now- to lose the culture is to lose the people.fortunately we are not llike some missionaries who want everyone to be little white Americans with three piece suits and KJBible and pushing the Protestant Work Ethic making everyone Happy Protestant Capitalists.

RA: Please don’t make it seem as if I have out of hand dismissed all aspects of paganism that have been used to help communicate the gospel, or traditions that have been adapted/adopted and turned to truth: Do I need to list them beginning with Christmas, Easter, the sun-rise service, labyrinths…well, you get the point.

But taking a symbol of a culture and imbuing it with Christian meaning in order to help communicate the Gospel and help save culture is not the same thing as taking a symbol and still keeping aspects of that symbol that so closely mirror the original pagan elements that the the pagans don’t hardly see much difference accept in name – and side issues.

We are both looking at the issues from completely different angles. Therefore, we will disagree.

Po18: You are not Catholic, so why do you come here and pluck our beards with your doubts and cynicism?

RA: I’ve done for more than that on this board. In some places I have defended RCs. In other places I have disagreed with the RCC. In some places I have joined RCs to assist in refuting Mormonism. In another place I actually recommended that a Mormon RETURN to the Roman Catholic Church that he unfortunately left. To verify please do a search and spend some time reading.

What am I doing here? I thought I was fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ – even though we disagree in various places. What are you doing here?

RA
 
Richard_Abanes said:
What am I doing here? I thought I was fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ – even though we disagree in various places. What are you doing here?

RA
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Keeping an eye out for trolls, cynics, and beard pluckers. 😉
 
Richard_Abanes said:
Po18: You are not Catholic, so why do you come here and pluck our beards with your doubts and cynicism?

RA: I’ve done for more than that on this board. In some places I have defended RCs. In other places I have disagreed with the RCC. In some places I have joined RCs to assist in refuting Mormonism. In another place I actually recommended that a Mormon RETURN to the Roman Catholic Church that he unfortunately left. To verify please do a search and spend some time reading.

What am I doing here? I thought I was fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ – even though we disagree in various places. What are you doing here?

RA
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Well, maybe a simple change to a questioning format instead of a statement format. Ask, we’ll answer. But, it remains the Holy Spirit Who does all converting. Our words will mean nothing to you without the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

Amen.
 
RA,
You don’t want to believe the Marian Apparitions, that’s fine. Your choice. Was the Catholic Church blameless during the Age of Exploration and the Reformation? Far from it. But to come on a Catholic website and celebrate the reformation…don’t tell me you don’t see a problem with this.
 
juliamajor said:
fortunately we are not llike some missionaries who want everyone to be little white Americans with three piece suits and KJBible and pushing the Protestant Work Ethic making everyone Happy Protestant Capitalists.
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Well, at least you’re not bitter. 😉
 
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