To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

[DARichards]

sparks:

I didn’t realize how much error the RC taught until I actually learned about it and compared its teachings to scripture. Same goes for LDS teachings.

I understand what the RC teaches, and it is because of this understanding that I will never join it. And of course they will say I have the “wrong” understanding, but I don’t. I’ve studied Catholicism for eight years now. I’ve read the Catechism and the Catholic Encyclopedia to find out more about their beliefs, comparing them to Scripture, instead of relying on “anti-Catholic” material. I would encourage you to do the same, but don’t be surprised if you reach the same conclusion as I did.

I agree. There is error being passed off as truth in both faiths.

Before that happens, I would hope you have at least read up on their teachings. Then again, studying is what is keeping me out of the Catholic church…and LDS for that matter. I can only hope you do the same.

Sparks,

With all due respect, what we believe or don’t believe about Scripture is not left up to our discretion. (Proverbs 3:5-6). Scripture must be read in its entirety for a total view of how it should be interpreted. I have been on the earth for only a short time and there is no way that I can pick up the Bible and understand the correct interpretation of what was written over 2,ooo years ago. That would reflect total arrogance on my part. The proper way to use the Bible is to defer to the ones who established the Church, the ones who were discipled by the Apostles themselves, how did they interpret and put Scripture to use. If the Bible was to be the sole and final authority in our faith, why did Jesus not command anyone (except for John in the writing of Revelation) to write or compile books that would be used as a sole foundation of Scripture? Why did Paul tell Timothy that the Church was the “pillar and foundation of the Truth” (1Timothy 3:15). The only reason that you have the Bible that you have now is due to the fact that in the 3rd and 4th century the Church (Catholic, mind you) wanted to protect the Truth and therefore canonized the books of Scripture that they deemed (by the leading of the Holy Spirit) to reflect the fullness of the teaching of the Christian Church. (Read up on the Council of Nicea, Council of Carthage).

We don’t and can’t understand it all in and of our selves… That is why we run to the Church for refuge and safety in our teachings… It’s not all about us…

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

Sad state of affairs for the “Church of Christ”.

Every once in a while, a vein of bitterness surfaces in your posts. This saddens me.

 

[Mickey]

sparks:

I didn’t realize how much error the RC taught until I actually learned about it and compared its teachings to scripture.

Watch your charity level. :tsktsk:

 

[Mickey]

sparks:

Then again, studying is what is keeping me out of the Catholic church…

I don’t think that studying is what keeps you out of the Catholic Church.

 

[Mickey]

sparks:

Infant baptism for one. Not a word, nor even a concept of it in scripture. That makes it unscriptural.

You have already provided some of theScriptural proof of infant baptism. Entire households being baptized–Let the little children come to me. When Mary visited Elizabeth, John the baptist leapt in the womb. He didn’t need to reach an “age of reason” to know that he was in Jesus’ presence. Adult beleiever’s baptism was a revisionist invention of the reformers. The original reformer, (Luther), even believed in infant baptism. Do you care to show us where in Scripture it says that children must reach “the age of reason” before they can be baptized?

So why baptise a baby when it doesn’t know yet what is happening? Why not wait for the baby to grow and believe in Christ and ask for baptism? If we were to follow this line of reasoning, we wouldn’t inoculate the baby against diphtheria until he grows up and asks for it! But we know better. Baptising infants before they know what is going on is an expression of God’s great love for us. It shows that God loves us and accepts us before we can ever know and love Him. It shows that we are wanted and loved by God from the very moment of our birth. Nothing shows the nature of God’s grace more than infant baptism.

 

[JSmitty2005]

sparks:

Prove that they baptized infants, or that the household even had a single infant, and you’ll have a case. Speculation is not proof.

Ditto to you. You haven’t proven that infants were not baptized, so I guess we have to look to what the Early Christians believed.

Irenaeus

“He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age” (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

“‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]” (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).

Hippolytus

“Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen

“Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous” (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).

“The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit” (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

 

[DARichards]

Doreen:

Not to sound harsh, but…Away from me, Satan!

We CAN conquer sin…and to believe otherwise is to have Christ die in vain. We are to be “new creations in Christ”…and if we would ever truly trust in Him as He commands, we’d find ourselves living righteous lives in “this present age!”

"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Saviour, who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen."
Jude 24

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these are the final words of the Bible prior to the Revelation.

Things that make ya go…Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

To live in the cycle of sinning and repenting is to live without the POWER of the Spirit. And it is to say that Christ couldn’t actually accomplish what He came to do…to conquer sin and death…to overcome…to save us to the uttermost!

We limit God…and our experience is thus limited.

We trust and fully submit to Him and He becomes the animating force within us, motivating us toward righteousness and keeping us from evil.

Why do we recite these prayers over and over? Do we say “deliver us from evil” and then not believe that He can do it?

Think about it, friends. He is a mighty God. We are limited man.
But I can do all things THROUGH HIM that gives me strength.

Praise God!

Doreen,

I think that you and St. Eric are on the same page. In and of ourselves, we cannot conquer sin. Paul makes it clear that we are bound and slaves to sin in our state of Original Sin. (Which, by the way is the absence of the Sanctifying Grace of our Lord.) At baptism, the stain of original sin is removed and we are reunited in Grace of our Lord. If we were to die at that time, we would be immediately with the Lord. The problem is we continue to sin in our lives with “actual sin”. That is why we come to the table of our Lord at the Eucharist. To gain strength from His Body and His Blood and by renewing our covenant with Him is our strength against sin. In Him, by Him, and through Him…in the unity of the Holy Spirit, All glory and honour is Yours, both now and forever…Almighty God…

 

[St.Eric]

sparks:

Prove that they baptized infants, or that the household even had a single infant, and you’ll have a case. Speculation is not proof.

And one could also say, prove that Christ is God, and then maybe you would have a case for Christianity.

 

[St.Eric]

Doreen:

Not to sound harsh, but…Away from me, Satan!

We CAN conquer sin…and to believe otherwise is to have Christ die in vain. We are to be “new creations in Christ”…and if we would ever truly trust in Him as He commands, we’d find ourselves living righteous lives in “this present age!”

"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Saviour, who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen."
Jude 24

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these are the final words of the Bible prior to the Revelation.

Things that make ya go…Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

To live in the cycle of sinning and repenting is to live without the POWER of the Spirit. And it is to say that Christ couldn’t actually accomplish what He came to do…to conquer sin and death…to overcome…to save us to the uttermost!

We limit God…and our experience is thus limited.

We trust and fully submit to Him and He becomes the animating force within us, motivating us toward righteousness and keeping us from evil.

Why do we recite these prayers over and over? Do we say “deliver us from evil” and then not believe that He can do it?

Think about it, friends. He is a mighty God. We are limited man.
But I can do all things THROUGH HIM that gives me strength.

Praise God!

Hmmm. Thank you. Christ told me I would be persecuted for keeping his commandments. You validated this prophesy. Again, thank you for increasing my faith. Only Christ conquers sin, we do not. Without the grace of Christ we are all doomed. We do not merit it for ourselves. Without the original grace of Christ, all is lost. If we are incapable of sin once we are children of Christ, why would we be warned like this:

Matthew 26:41 NIV •
“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”

Mark 14:38 NIV •
Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

We CAN conquer sin…

**Do not be surprised that you fall every day, do not give up, but stand your ground courageously. And assuredly, the angel who guards you will honor your patience. While a wound is still fresh and warm, it is easy to heal; but old, neglected and festering ones are hard to cure, and require for their care much treatment, cutting, plastering and cauterization. Many from long neglect become incurable, but with God all things are possible. **
St. John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent

 

[believers]

St.Eric:

Hmmm. Thank you. Christ told me I would be persecuted for keeping his commandments. You validated this prophesy. Again, thank you for increasing my faith. Only Christ conquers sin, we do not. Without the grace of Christ we are all doomed. We do not merit it for ourselves. Without the original grace of Christ, all is lost. If we are incapable of sin once we are children of Christ, why would we be warned like this:

Matthew 26:41 NIV •
“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”

Mark 14:38 NIV •
Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

Okay, I’m going to weigh in since you’ve brought up the Commandments. Exactly which Commandments do you keep? You are absolutely right when you said we would “be persecuted for keeping [God’s] commandments.” Since you’re Catholic, I’m assuming you and All Catholics are “keeping” the “Traditional Catechetical Formula” listed on the Vatican’s website here vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Is this a correct assumption?

 

[TrustInTheLord]

Hello everybody!

Im new at this so i only have one question Why are we all arguing about our beliefs? Aren’t we all suppose to believe in one GOD. I hope we can all put our minds together and help each other. Time is running out and we certainly don’t want to be punished for not knowing the absolute truth.

I am a Catholic, but now im not sure if i believe in the RCC worship.
I want to know everything about the Lord and what he wants from me. I know that not everyone feels this way, i only seek for the truth and pray that God will show me the way to his kingdom. Not to be mean but i really believe that the bible is our only way to knowing the truth, as a Catholic i know that the church doesn’t teach the bible, and this is what i think is missing. Am i right?

 

[Dorothy]

TrustInTheLord:

Hello everybody!

Im new at this so i only have one question Why are we all arguing about our beliefs? Aren’t we all suppose to believe in one GOD. I hope we can all put our minds together and help each other. Time is running out and we certainly don’t want to be punished for not knowing the absolute truth.

I am a Catholic, but now im not sure if i believe in the RCC worship.
I want to know everything about the Lord and what he wants from me. I know that not everyone feels this way, i only seek for the truth and pray that God will show me the way to his kingdom. Not to be mean but i really believe that the bible is our only way to knowing the truth, as a Catholic i know that the church doesn’t teach the bible, and this is what i think is missing. Am i right?

I am happy to say you are not right! Contrary to what many non-Catholics think we do not ignore the Bible. However, we are aware that a one-legged stool does not work.

Catholics believe in a three-legged stool: Scripture, Tradition (with a capital T), and the Magisterium (God-given authority of the Church).

It was St. Jerome that said “Ignorance of Scripture, is ignorance of Christ.”

Scriptures are read at every Mass, and there are multitudes of Bible studies that can be purchased.

 

[Mickey]

TrustInTheLord:

Hello everybody!

Welcome!

TrustInTheLord:

Im new at this so i only have one question Why are we all arguing about our beliefs?

We aren’t really arguing. We are having brisk discussions.

TrustInTheLord:

I am a Catholic, but now im not sure if i believe in the RCC worship.

What are your specific concerns?

TrustInTheLord:

as a Catholic i know that the church doesn’t teach the bible, and this is what i think is missing. Am i right?

No. If you are truly Catholic then surely you must know that you hear Epistle and Gospel readings at every Mass. The Liturgy itself is Scriptural. We are taught to read the Bible. We receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

What are you talking about?

 

[mary_bobo]

Dorothy:

I am happy to say you are not right! Contrary to what many non-Catholics think we do not ignore the Bible. However, we are aware that a one-legged stool does not work.

Catholics believe in a three-legged stool: Scripture, Tradition (with a capital T), and the Magisterium (God-given authority of the Church).

It was St. Jerome that said “Ignorance of Scripture, is ignorance of Christ.”

Scriptures are read at every Mass, and there are multitudes of Bible studies that can be purchased.

Am I wrong, or do we have three readings from the Bible at every Mass?

 

[TrustInTheLord]

Thanks for responding and the warm welcome! I forgot to mention that i don’t go to RCC anymore, cuz i’ve come to realize that it doesn’t help me, and i know i may be wierd to all, but lately i’ve become part of another church. So which is why i don’t see RCC is about Jesus teachings but more about the church teachings. I don’t know why we discuss this its better to find the solution so we can all come together as one, i know God would want us to built a church that only teaches one way and only through God’s laws and not the church laws. hmm…

Mickey do you read the bible? Do u understand it?

I did not say RCC ignores the bible, i think they don’t follow it the way they should. Sorry but this is my opinion.

 

[Dorothy]

mary bobo:

Am I wrong, or do we have three readings from the Bible at every Mass?

Yes, the Sunday Mass has a reading from the Old Testament, then a Psalm reading and responsory, then a reading from an Epistle; then the priest reads the Gospel. So, if we include the Psalm reading, then it is actually four.

 

[DARichards]

TrustInTheLord:

Thanks for responding! I forgot to mention that i don’t go to RCC anymore, cuz i’ve come to realize that it doesn’t help me, and i know i may be wierd to all, but lately i’ve become part of another church. So which is why i don’t see RCC is about Jesus teachings but more about the church teachings. I don’t know why we discuss this its better to find the solution so we can all come together as one, i know God would want us to built a church that only teaches one way and only through God’s laws and not the church laws. hmm…

O.K. Trust, Let’s assume just for a moment that all the 2o,ooo protestant denominations came together into one church and teaches one way (this means that they would fulfill the word CATHOLIC in the original intent) would they not have laws and rules to keep them organized and everyone on the same page??
As humans, we need rules and laws or as Luther said, “we would have as many doctrines as there are heads.”

TrustInTheLord:

Mickey do you read the bible? Do u understand it?

I did not say RCC ignores the bible, i think they don’t follow it the way they should. Sorry but this is my opinion.

We don’t join Churches like we buy cars. We shouldn’t join churches based on the best programs or what makes us feel good. The telling point is: what church lines up with historical Christianity and what the origial Apostles and Church fathers taught. Only one… You decide.

 

[believers]

DARichards:

O.K. Trust, Let’s assume just for a moment that all the 2o,ooo protestant denominations came together into one church and teaches one way (this means that they would fulfill the word CATHOLIC in the original intent) would they not have laws and rules to keep them organized and everyone on the same page??
As humans, we need rules and laws or as Luther said, “we would have as many doctrines as there are heads.”

We don’t join Churches like we buy cars. We shouldn’t join churches based on the best programs or what makes us feel good. The telling point is: what church lines up with historical Christianity and what the origial Apostles and Church fathers taught. Only one… You decide.

DA, What you fail to understand is that Protestant Churches have come together in Faith. In the belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior. We follow God’s Law/Commandments and the Covenant given by Jesus. We trust the Bible only.

Remember what Jesus said,
Mat 7:21-23 (I Never Knew You)
21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

22 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?”

23 "And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessess!”

What exactly did Jesus mean by “will of my Father” and “lawlessness”? We can only assume Jesus was referring to God’s Commandments. Here in lies the problem for the RCC, why aren’t the commandments of the RCC complete? Why does the Vatican leave out the graven images part. See for yourself at the Vatican’s Website. Who gave the RCC the right to omit and change the law?

I mean no disrepect to any of you. But there’s an error in the Catechism. How can you trust the CCC if doesn’t even have the full commandments? I was a Roman Catholic for 36 years and was taught the “Traditional Catechetical Formula”. I had graven images everywhere and didn’t even know it was forbidden by God. And we all know that God has final authority. Not the RCC.

 

[Dorothy]

believers:

DA, What you fail to understand is that Protestant Churches have come together in Faith. In the belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior. We follow God’s Law/Commandments and the Covenant given by Jesus. We trust the Bible only.

Remember what Jesus said,
Mat 7:21-23 (I Never Knew You)
21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

22 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?”

23 "And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessess!”

What exactly did Jesus mean by “will of my Father” and “lawlessness”? We can only assume Jesus was referring to God’s Commandments. Here in lies the problem for the RCC, why aren’t the commandments of the RCC complete? Why does the Vatican leave out the graven images part. See for yourself at the Vatican’s Website. Who gave the RCC the right to omit and change the law?

I mean no disrepect to any of you. But there’s an error in the Catechism. How can you trust the CCC if doesn’t even have the full commandments? I was a Roman Catholic for 36 years and was taught the “Traditional Catechetical Formula”. I had graven images everywhere and didn’t even know it was forbidden by God. And we all know that God has final authority. Not the RCC.

You rashly accuse the RCC of omitting and changing the law.
Please take the time to read this article, it should enlighten you.

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp