To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

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I’m no specific denomination, my theology is reformed I can honestly say that. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura because God has blessed us with many other historical books out of the canon as well as historians writings that confirmed His word. I believe tradition can be a beautiful thing as well. The only time I have a problem with tradition is when it conflicts with God’s word or when it takes away from the sufficiency of Christ’s death on the cross.
 
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ChristFollower:
I’m no specific denomination, my theology is reformed I can honestly say that. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura because God has blessed us with many other historical books out of the canon as well as historians writings that confirmed His word. I believe tradition can be a beautiful thing as well. The only time I have a problem with tradition is when it conflicts with God’s word or when it takes away from the sufficiency of Christ’s death on the cross.
Which Catholic teachings conflict with God’s Word?

Just to clarify, you are nondenominational with a reformed theology?
You go to a nondenominational church?
 
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ChristFollower:
No, I think you might have the history lesson to look forward to - how does a Luther quote have anything to do with my post? - I’m no follower of Luther (read the nick) - and Jack Chick? isn’t he a cartoonist? Was that some way to deny the Cathoilc religion was corrupt and to say that there was no need what-so-ever to reform to God’s word?
No, God’s word was not in need of being reformed. It is eternal and no man can reform it. The Catholic religion has never been corrupt- some of its members have been, that is true- but the church itself is not, has never been, and never will be. We hinge this belief on the very promise of Christ. “The gates of Hell shall not prevail against her.”

The history lesson comment was in terms of indulgences and the reading remark. So the masses of people could read around 1500? This is what sparked the reformation? And indulgences are not paying for salvation and they were never a money making scheme for the church. Pretty poor way to make money- getting a few widow mites from poor land peasants.
 
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ChristFollower:
I’m no specific denomination, my theology is reformed I can honestly say that. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura because God has blessed us with many other historical books out of the canon as well as historians writings that confirmed His word. I believe tradition can be a beautiful thing as well. The only time I have a problem with tradition is when it conflicts with God’s word or when it takes away from the sufficiency of Christ’s death on the cross.
ChristFoller, I am coming from a similar background to yours and have found my home in the Catholic Church. I felt the same way you felt, but what I found in the long run is that whenever I said that “tradition conflicts with Gods Word”, what I was actually saying is that “tradition conflicts with **my interpretation or my denominations interpretation ** of God’s Word.” That is very important to realize. There is a big difference.
 
Correct I am labeled non-denominational (according to Barna I am a “revolutionary”) , however I do not believe God has more than one church, I beleive there is only one church which is all the body of believers and I believe I am a part of it. There are more than a few practices of the Roman Church that I see conflict with His word, but they have been debated to no end and I have no fantasy about changing the Roman Church.



I never said reform God’s word I said reform to it. To clarify I am no Calvin follower either but one of the things that tore him from his beloved church was the indulgence
 
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ChristFollower:
Correct I am labeled non-denominational (according to Barna I am a “revolutionary”) , however I do not believe God has more than one church, I beleive there is only one church which is all the body of believers and I believe I am a part of it. , but they have been debated to no end and I have no fantasy about changing the Roman Church.
The nondenominational movement is an American movement started in the 1990s. I don’t know how you can make claims that it is the one Church.
There are more than a few practices of the Roman Church that I see conflict with His word.
Here is a challenge that has been offered over and over by Catholics on this thread. Not one Protestant has been able to do it. Maybe you can:

“If you can prove to me that the Catholic Church is wrong on any single one of its doctrines, I will renounce my faith and be fellowshiping and worshiping side-by-side with you this Sunday in your church.”
I never said reform God’s word I said reform to it. To clarify I am no Calvin follower either but one of the things that tore him from his beloved church was the indulgence
No. It was the abuse of Indulgences by several corrupt members of clergy in Germany who led people to believe that the Church taught you can buy your way out of Purgatory. The Church has never taught such a thing.
 
I could waste my time typing here trying to convert you Eden but I’d be attempting to do the work of the Holy Spirit - the question was why aren’t I a Catholic, not why you shouldn’t be. Obviously I have the same objections to the Roman Church that you’ve heard before from other Christians (non-Catholic)
  • about a non-denomination movemement, I think it’s hogwash, God only has one church, He has given specific instructions how to be part of His body of believers and also how to have assurance you will be with Him. I’m sorry if I’m hard to label, how about just “Christian” ?
 
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ChristFollower:
I could waste my time typing here trying to convert you Eden but I’d be attempting to do the work of the Holy Spirit - the question was why aren’t I a Catholic, not why you shouldn’t be. Obviously I have the same objections to the Roman Church that you’ve heard before from other Christians (non-Catholic)
  • about a non-denomination movemement, I think it’s hogwash, God only has one church, He has given specific instructions how to be part of His body of believers and also how to have assurance you will be with Him. I’m sorry if I’m hard to label, how about just “Christian” ?
True. The question is, why are you not Catholic? But you implied that you believe there are teachings in the Church that conflict with God’s Word. If you are not willing to back up that statement, then O.K. Good luck on your journey.
 
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ChristFollower:
  • about a non-denomination movemement, I think it’s hogwash, God only has one church, He has given specific instructions how to be part of His body of believers and also how to have assurance you will be with Him. I’m sorry if I’m hard to label, how about just “Christian” ?
That is fine, but please explain to me how you define doctrine. If you don’t hold to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the Westminster Confession, what defines for you your doctrinal stances and beliefs (other than your personal interpretation of what Scripture means).
 
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ChristFollower:
  • about a non-denomination movemement, I think it’s hogwash, God only has one church, He has given specific instructions how to be part of His body of believers and also how to have assurance you will be with Him. I’m sorry if I’m hard to label, how about just “Christian” ?
Are you a Church of Christ guy? I work with people who call themselves "just Christian"s and they are Church of Christ people.

Anyways, can you please specify what are the characteristics of that one true church and how to assure yourself of being with Jesus?
 
You really have no idea what my claims could be?

Have you become an expert at defending the worship of Mary and just want to show it off?
(I know, you don’t worship her, the kneeling, the prayers, the statues, the laying of flowers at the feet of the statues aren’t worship)

See? - now it turns into a discussion on Mary worship - you have to convince me she isn’t worshipped and I’d have to be careful not to sound like I’m dissrespecting the mother of Jesus.

You’d have to convince me she had no other kids,
she ascended,
she was concieved without sin.
blah blah - do you really wanna tyoe that much?

then we’d have to go into popes,
…that peter was the first pope
  • what was actually meant by the gates of hell will not prevail, on this rock, etc. (actually maybe I’ll do my own thread on that one, it’s pretty good)
We’d have to talk about maccabees and purgatory - how exhaustive.

further more we’d have to go into the stickyness of the fruits of the church of rome i.e. rampant child molestation.

let’s see…

the legality of baptism, sacrament, confirmation etc.

the fact that rome did nothing in the face of hitler and still have not excommunicated him…

trust me I have many reasons to only follow the word of scripture.

Why waste time, I answered the question, as ludacris as my claims sound to you, do your refutations sound to me. People are killed over this in other countries. It aint worth it, all I can say is I am confident all I need for this life and the next is found in God’s word.
 
onesimplemind if I were a Church of Christ guy I’d tell you - I’m a Christian - read about the Christians of Palestine, their descendants heard the sermon on the mount, they never were under any rule of a denomination yet no one denies their existence.
 
DAR - exegesis, and like I said I’m of a reformed theology, I recognize people today who have been given the gift of teaching, in the public eye I can mention 2 - John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul, other than that I have personal bible studies with other Christians I worship with.
 
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ChristFollower:
further more we’d have to go into the stickyness of the fruits of the church of rome i.e. rampant child molestation.
The percentage of sexual abuse in Protestant denominations is higher. Are you not familiar with the study by the non-Catholic Professor Jenkins from Penn State?

catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

You have to research these things before you use gratuitous references to abuse.

If you start threads on any of the other topics, I’m there. 👍
 
Okay, let’s say I agree with you, protestant sex abuse is higher ( I actually doubt that but let’s say it’s so)
  • is Roman sexual abuse then not rampant?
  • is that your defense? Other people have sex with little boys too?
Name a denomination or religion with rampant sexual abuse towards children and I promise you I am not a part of it.
 
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ChristFollower:
the fact that rome did nothing in the face of hitler and still have not excommunicated him…
.
It is a shame that you let the media force-feed their anti-Catholic rhetoric to you.

If you, again, *research *the true Pope Pius XII you’ll look like this: :o
You’ll find that, in fact, no one person saved more Jews during WWII than he. The Rabbi in Rome converted to Catholicism after the war and specifically cited Pope Pius XII’s Christian witness in the face of Nazism for his conversion.

Start here: catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101fea1.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101fea1sb.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9702fea1.asp

catholic.com/library/how_plus_xii_protected_jews.asp
 
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ChristFollower:
Okay, let’s say I agree with you, protestant sex abuse is higher ( I actually doubt that but let’s say it’s so)
  • is Roman sexual abuse then not rampant?
  • is that your defense? Other people have sex with little boys too?
Name a denomination or religion with rampant sexual abuse towards children and I promise you I am not a part of it.
Wow! When did .1%-.2% of anything become something that is “rampant”? You are losing credibility with me on this one. Are you this susceptible to media in every opinion you form?
 
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ChristFollower:
Okay, let’s say I agree with you, protestant sex abuse is higher ( I actually doubt that but let’s say it’s so)
  • is Roman sexual abuse then not rampant?
  • is that your defense? Other people have sex with little boys too?
Name a denomination or religion with rampant sexual abuse towards children and I promise you I am not a part of it.
So all the poeple in your personal bible study group is sinless?

Remember that 8% of the Apostles betrayed Jesus, 8% denied Him, and 91% didn’t show up for His death.
 
Yeah, I’m shocked a convert to rome would say great things about a pope and if i’m not supposed to read biased material, why do all the online study of Pius XII you gave me have the word “catholic” in the url?

It reminds me of a time here at work, a firend of mine, who happens to be catholic was defending aspertame (spelling) and all his citations were from the aspertame website. I still joke about that with him.
 
  • yes onesimple, we end each meeting with a healthy jog across the lake. 😉
  • the fact that we are all sinners doesn’t mean I can’t use my judgement when deciding on whether or not I should be a catholic, with that logic why not just be a mormon? they sin, i sin, hey why not?!
 
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