To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paris_Blues
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
ChristFollower:
You really have no idea what my claims could be?

Have you become an expert at defending the worship of Mary and just want to show it off?
(I know, you don’t worship her, the kneeling, the prayers, the statues, the laying of flowers at the feet of the statues aren’t worship)

See? - now it turns into a discussion on Mary worship - you have to convince me she isn’t worshipped and I’d have to be careful not to sound like I’m dissrespecting the mother of Jesus.

You’d have to convince me she had no other kids,
she ascended,
she was concieved without sin.
blah blah - do you really wanna tyoe that much?

then we’d have to go into popes,
…that peter was the first pope
  • what was actually meant by the gates of hell will not prevail, on this rock, etc. (actually maybe I’ll do my own thread on that one, it’s pretty good)
We’d have to talk about maccabees and purgatory - how exhaustive.

further more we’d have to go into the stickyness of the fruits of the church of rome i.e. rampant child molestation.

let’s see…

the legality of baptism, sacrament, confirmation etc.

the fact that rome did nothing in the face of hitler and still have not excommunicated him…

trust me I have many reasons to only follow the word of scripture.

Why waste time, I answered the question, as ludacris as my claims sound to you, do your refutations sound to me. People are killed over this in other countries. It aint worth it, all I can say is I am confident all I need for this life and the next is found in God’s word.
Click to expand...
sigh Here we go again sigh :yawn:
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
Yeah, I’m shocked a convert to rome would say great things about a pope and if i’m not supposed to read biased material, why do all the online study of Pius XII you gave me have the word “catholic” in the url?

It reminds me of a time here at work, a firend of mine, who happens to be catholic was defending aspertame (spelling) and all his citations were from the aspertame website. I still joke about that with him.
Click to expand...
Why do you continue to bear false witness against Pope Pius XII?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII

I suppose you haven’t even heard of Rabbi David Dalin’s book:

heritage.org/Press/Events/ev080205a.cfm

Here’s one from Pat Buchanan:

buchanan.org/pa-98-0401.html
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
Yeah, I’m shocked a convert to rome would say great things about a pope and if i’m not supposed to read biased material, why do all the online study of Pius XII you gave me have the word “catholic” in the url?

It reminds me of a time here at work, a firend of mine, who happens to be catholic was defending aspertame (spelling) and all his citations were from the aspertame website. I still joke about that with him.
Click to expand...
Just an FYI. I am a convert too. I was a “born-again” OSAS fundamentalist. Why would you not want to go to Catholic sites to learn about anything Catholic? Including Popes? Seems to me if I wanted to learn about the Mormon doctrine, I wouldn’t go ask a baptist preacher about it. I would go to a Mormon bishop and Mormon sources. Interestingly the Author of Hitler’s Pope, Cornwell, was disgruntled with the Church over personal issues when he wrote the book. He has since come home 👍
 
40.png
St.Eric:
He has since come home 👍
Click to expand...
He has also apologized about that book.

By the way, Rabbi David Dalin wrote his book partly because he was angry that Cornwell used Jews for his own political agenda against the Church. As he investigated Pope Pius XII’s actions during WWII more, Dalin became overwhelmed by the injustice that Cornwell had heaped on the Pope. It is just so blatantly clear that the Pope is directly responsible for saving the lives of thousands of Jews. There is not one other person alive during WWII, Protestant clergy or secular who can be credited with saving more Jews than Pius XII. It’s just unbelievable how willing some people are to believe this anti-Catholic propaganda.
 
They’ve certainly updated that wiki page a bit since the last time I’ve read it - that would explain the:

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

at the top of the page.

We all choose our own experts.

prior OSAS huh? - I guess now what, you jump in and out of the book of life daily? 😉
 
I’ll research the Pius XII claim more, perhaps I was missinformed okay, give the keyboards a rest.
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
prior OSAS huh? - I guess now what, you jump in and out of the book of life daily? 😉
Click to expand...
Sorry. I may not be too bright sometimes. I really don’t know what you are saying here. Could you please explain a little more? thank you. ( I am being serious.) Thanks.
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
They’ve certainly updated that wiki page a bit since the last time I’ve read it - that would explain the:

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

at the top of the page.

We all choose our own experts.

prior OSAS huh? - I guess now what, you jump in and out of the book of life daily? 😉
Click to expand...
I will take a stab at it: You are saying now I think that may name comes and goes out of the book of life for those saved from Hell?

I wouldn’t say that. Who’s to say that no one’s name is in the book until you die? And at the moment of death the state of your sould will determine if your name is in their or not. We will be judged by our fruits. What I beleive now is that I and everyone else who believes have the ability to forsake Christ and our salvation. We can most certainly turn away. We can also come home as well.
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
I’ll research the Pius XII claim more, perhaps I was missinformed okay, give the keyboards a rest.
Click to expand...
I’m not giving my keyboard a rest. It is a serious accusation against a very holy and Christian man.

I suggest reading Rabbi Dalin’s book. His conclusions are chilling.

I believe these are secular refutations of Cornwell’s book:

renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/050730

mrc.org/press/2000/press20000321.asp

Is it not enough for you that the AUTHOR OF THE BOOK retracted his label “Hitler’s Pope” and admitted he was in error?
 
40.png
ChristFollower:
DAR - exegesis, and like I said I’m of a reformed theology, I recognize people today who have been given the gift of teaching, in the public eye I can mention 2 - John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul, other than that I have personal bible studies with other Christians I worship with.
Click to expand...
CF, it sounds to me that you just simply are following those that you can agree with the most based on what you think Scripture says. The common term would be “cafeteria Christian.”
 
*kujo313 said: *
I did educate myself. The more I know, the more I wished I didn’t know. Popes in the past have called Mary “Queen of Heaven” and “Queen of the Universe”. That is not so, nor was it what she wanted.
I’ve found booklets of the “Holy Baby” and prayers to him.
All blasphemous. Jesus said that God is a Spirit. He always was and is."

This rhetoric does confuse me and many other objective people. I often try to dissect the rationale in this argument from non-Catholics. I do so out of sincere care for their soul- not to “one-up” them in an act of arrogance.

Since I came from a mixed background (mother’s side of family Presbyterian and father’s side of family Catholic), grew-up going to a Presbyterian church, was confirmed Presbyterian at the age 16, and then never set-foot in church until I was 22 and going through the RCIA program, I try to put myself in the non-Catholic’s shoes to understand their logic.

On the topic of Mary, why is there such disdain in respecting Jesus Christ’s mother? As a Christian, why would you be so quick to argue with the logic that she is the Mother of God? If this young woman accepted the angel’s message and agreed to carry the Messiah in her womb, why is she not the Mother of God? As a Christian, you most likely accept that Mary was Jesus Christ’s mother. So, I ask, isn’t one of Christ’s teachings to honor thy mother and father? Not just a coincidence here, sir.

Though I cling to my Catholic faith because I, and a billion others in the world, feel it encompasses Christ’s revealed truths much more fully than the countless other splinter formations, I would not dare put myself on equal ground with the Mother of Our Lord. She deserves a special place in all of our hearts. She was chosen to be His mother… and she freely-accepted. He created her, knowing that she would be the one, so He filled her with the rightful grace to be that vessel. What a model of obedience. What a model for young women. What a model for mothers. What a model of true beauty for men to look for in their soul mates.

So, why, I ask, the fear in calling Jesus Christ’s mother “Queen of Heaven”? She is royalty. She is the Mother of the King of Kings. Through His will, she nurtured Our Lord’s human life. His incarnation is a beautiful mystery of which we do not have full comprehension, and the earthly mother of that human life should be placed on a pedestal for us to honor and marvel at.

Now, to ensure my last few paragraphs didn’t somehow mislead anyone, let me make it perfectly clear that Catholicism does NOT prescribe worship of Mary. The distinction between honor and worship (a.k.a. adoration) may be fuzzy to some non-Catholics, but to us, and anyone else with a shred of intellect, it is rather clear. Worship is given to He who created us. Honor is given to those who serve, and strive to imitate, that being that created us. It is only fitting that the one He chose to be born of- the one who was spotless of sin (what did the angel say again? oh yea, “hail Mary, full of grace”)- the one that freely-accepted Him into her womb, should be given due honor above anyone else- period. End of story.

I have come to find that most anti-Catholic arguments are torn-apart with logic and common sense. Also, I have found that helping those opposed to Catholicism come to a true understanding of the faith takes time, patience, prayer, and a complete openness, on their part, to learn Christ’s intentions.

So, in the end, I ask another question. Why would one want it to be perfectly clear that this gracious young woman should NOT be honored in any more special a way than that same know-it-all writing a lousy argument in this discussion forum? Your answer, sir, is one of two things. Either it is ignorance or sinful pride. I’m hoping it’s ignorance.

God bless you, kujo, on your search for truth. Though my above comments may have come across harsh, at points, I truly hope that you come to witness the richness the Catholic faith offers all those willing to hear it.
 
Sorry… I posted this continuance of the “Marian debate” prior to reading the warnings. I apologize for not heeding the warning.
 
Agrazing Mace:
Sorry… I posted this continuance of the “Marian debate” prior to reading the warnings. I apologize for not heeding the warning.
Click to expand...
Apology accepted. I just dont think that Jesus and His disciples had a Marian debate or tried to admire Mary. Their writings clearly show me that that was not their intention. What I see in their letters in the Bible is Jesus.
 
40.png
kujo313:
Apology accepted. I just dont think that Jesus and His disciples had a Marian debate or tried to admire Mary. Their writings clearly show me that that was not their intention. What I see in their letters in the Bible is Jesus.
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but that statement you made seems to be part of a Marian debate or at least a swipe meant at provoking a Marian debate.
 
40.png
onesimplemind:
I could be wrong but that statement you made seems to be part of a Marian debate or at least a swipe meant at provoking a Marian debate.
Click to expand...
Sorry. So, what shall we chat about ? What’s your favorite (musical) group? What’s your favorite song?
 
40.png
kujo313:
Apology accepted. I just dont think that Jesus and His disciples had a Marian debate or tried to admire Mary. Their writings clearly show me that that was not their intention. What I see in their letters in the Bible is Jesus.
Click to expand...
You know what is kinda funny here? You insist on carrying on the Mary debate and according to you how the bible does not support her as being special. What are your thoughts on eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood? There is a subject that the bible literally beats us over the head with in scripture and the vast majority of protestants discount it and don’t beleive it.

See what I mean? you go on and on about how “scripture doen’t support it” or the bible doesn’t say that so it isn’t right. But on the issue of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, the bible pretty much shouts it out with a megaphone and yet most of you don’t beleive it was meant to be taken seriously/literally. What gives?
 
40.png
St.Eric:
You know what is kinda funny here? You insist on carrying on the Mary debate and according to you how the bible does not support her as being special. What are your thoughts on eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood? There is a subject that the bible literally beats us over the head with in scripture and the vast majority of protestants discount it and don’t beleive it.

See what I mean? you go on and on about how “scripture doen’t support it” or the bible doesn’t say that so it isn’t right. But on the issue of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, the bible pretty much shouts it out with a megaphone and yet most of you don’t beleive it was meant to be taken seriously/literally. What gives?
Click to expand...
Well, if it was to be taken 100% seriously/literally, and not in a parable sense, or there’s another, more deeper meaning, then after communion, you have my permission to pump out my stomach and look for human flesh and traces of blood other than my own. Eat so much “flesh” until you get sick and vomit. THEN see what comes out.
Maybe, just maybe, Jesus meant that every time, every thing you eat, remember that our Savior was beaten, bruised, and crucified for us. Maybe also He wants us to NEVER FORGET that we are under the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Everything we eat. Everything we drink. Everything we do… remember who He is and who we are through Him.
Never forget. Always remember.

But, then again, the Catholic Church teaches that it’s the ACTUAL flesh and blood so it IS.

It is ONLY the Catholic Church that is smart enough to let us know when Jesus is speaking in parables and when He is speaking plainly. We, not being a pope or bishop, cannot at all translate it.
Maybe that’s why the Bible was in Latin for those hundreds of years. That’s why there was a death warrant for Martin Luther after he translated the Bible from Latin to German, so us iliterate and ignorant people could read it.

Such arrogance.
 
40.png
kujo313:
Well, if it was to be taken 100% seriously/literally, and not in a parable sense, or there’s another, more deeper meaning, then after communion, you have my permission to pump out my stomach and look for human flesh and traces of blood other than my own. Eat so much “flesh” until you get sick and vomit. THEN see what comes out.
Maybe, just maybe, Jesus meant that every time, every thing you eat, remember that our Savior was beaten, bruised, and crucified for us. Maybe also He wants us to NEVER FORGET that we are under the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Everything we eat. Everything we drink. Everything we do… remember who He is and who we are through Him.
Never forget. Always remember.

But, then again, the Catholic Church teaches that it’s the ACTUAL flesh and blood so it IS.

It is ONLY the Catholic Church that is smart enough to let us know when Jesus is speaking in parables and when He is speaking plainly. We, not being a pope or bishop, cannot at all translate it.
Maybe that’s why the Bible was in Latin for those hundreds of years. That’s why there was a death warrant for Martin Luther after he translated the Bible from Latin to German, so us iliterate and ignorant people could read it.

Such arrogance.
Click to expand...
The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” John 6:52

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?” John 6:60

I know the Bible is prophetic but geeez … right before my very eyes. Think about this verse…

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. John 6:66
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top