To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

[johnbres2]

Many Protestants will become Catholic, as they overcome their human hurdles to conversion. The reason for the existence of Protestantism is to pose questions to the Catholic faith, for the Catholic Church to clarify its beliefs. Protestantism has strengthened Marian doctrine and worship, by protesting against it; and has strengthened the Magisterium of the Papacy by insulting it and blaspheming against it. The Protestants are serving a purpose, then, in laying out the red carpet on which the Church walks toward it Glory with the Father. That is why they are all not Catholic at this time.

 

[JSmitty2005]

johnbres2:

Protestantism has strengthened Marian doctrine and worship, by protesting against it

I’m hoping that this was a typo since we DO NOT worship Mary.

 

[St.Eric]

JSmitty2005:

I’m hoping that this was a typo since we DO NOT worship Mary.

Unless of course he was using “worship” in the old sense of the word and not the contemporary. Old sense meaning venerate, highly respect, etc.

 

[DARichards]

Another reason why I do believe that Protestants are not Catholic is because of the society in which we live. We are taught to hold close the “virtues” of dependance, individuality and self reliance are part of this great democracy that we live in. Unfortunately, the Kingdom of God is not a democracy. In this light us westerners know very little about submission to a King and obedience to the rules of the Kingdom. We also want the freedom to be able to interpret the Scriptures as we see fit. We want to be able to join churches that make us feel good and stroke us. We shop for churches like we shop for homes. Which church has the best nursery, children’s program. Which church is more welcoming, or has better “worship” ( referring to the music). The Catholic Church is so different than our society in which we live it makes it hard for people to adapt…

 

[St.Eric]

DARichards:

Another reason why I do believe that Protestants are not Catholic is because of the society in which we live. We are taught to hold close the “virtues” of dependance, individuality and self reliance are part of this great democracy that we live in. Unfortunately, the Kingdom of God is not a democracy. In this light us westerners know very little about submission to a King and obedience to the rules of the Kingdom. We also want the freedom to be able to interpret the Scriptures as we see fit. We want to be able to join churches that make us feel good and stroke us. We shop for churches like we shop for homes. Which church has the best nursery, children’s program. Which church is more welcoming, or has better “worship” ( referring to the music). The Catholic Church is so different than our society in which we live it makes it hard for people to adapt…

Very good point. This does account for a lot. Anyone interested should read Max Weber’s “The Protestant work ethic and the spirit of capitalism.” It explains in detail how the American protestant and our culture are intertwined.

 

[JSmitty2005]

St.Eric:

Unless of course he was using “worship” in the old sense of the word and not the contemporary. Old sense meaning venerate, highly respect, etc.

This is true, but I doubt that many of the Protestants here realize that.

 

[JSmitty2005]

DARichards:

The Catholic Church is so different than our society in which we live it makes it hard for people to adapt…

Our country is being destroyed because of decades-old reactionary Protestant legislation. Now the only haven for today’s conservative Protestants (whose KKK ancestors put the separation of church and state laws on the books*) is to return to the Catholic Church. The only way that America will ever remain Christian is for massive amounts of people to convert to Catholicism and establish a Catholic Nation. If that means civil war with the liberals, atheists, secularists, etc. then I’m all for it! (We’re the ones with all the guns anyways. )

*In case anyone needs a reminder, the AU (Americans United for the Separation of Church and State) was founded in 1947 under the name of Protestants United for Separation of Church and State.

Also, if there are any Protestants out there that appreciate that “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1953, then you’ve got the Knights of Columbus to thank for that one.

"The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from
the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."
-G.K. Chesterton

 

[johnbres2]

If ‘worship’ is not best, I meant the veneration, or adoration whcih we devote to Mary. Certainly that falls within the common meaning of “worship.” If that offends Protestants, again, it just clarifies what we believe.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Paris Blues:

Yes, basically.

All I’m asking is why do non-Catholics stay in their denomination even after they hear the real Truthes about the CC?

Why do those people in the USA refuse to go over to proper kinds of sport, such as cricket ?​

For many of the same reasons as people don’t change the form of Christianity they adhere to.

Conversion is a grace - that is why apologetic and reason and force are all useless at converting people.

God meets people where they are and as they are - not where we might like them to be. Because we are in the same boat as they - we all need God’s grace and light, all the time, even if we are Catholic, even if we are not.

Salvation is by Christ - IOW, not by our “knowing stuff”, but because God knows us and has an unceasing care for us. And many people know that God knows them, without their being Catholics. ##

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

One of you is surprised (“beg your pardon”) by my saying that, according to what I was taught in the RCC, the priests are the only ones given the power to forgive sins…the other of you says that only the elect were “breathed on” and thus empowered…

Now—tell me if there is any contradiction in the Church?

No Contradiction. We are called to ask God to forgive our sins everyday–all of our sins that we have committed in word, thought and deed. And God forgives us because we He is all merciful. We are also called to participate in the sacrament of reconciliation. Whenever and wherever we truly repent for our sins and ask God to forgive us, we are immediately forgiven. God, Who is love, keeps no record of wrongs (1 Cor 12:26f). But my sins are more than just a private matter between me and God. Sin cuts me off not only from God, but from God’s Church as well. In sinning I let the whole Church down, I weaken the love binding Christ’s Body, the Church, together. In the sacrament of reconciliation, in exercising the Church’s God-given power to forgive sins (Jn 20:23), the priest not only assures me of God’s forgiveness, but acts as a representative of the Church, welcoming me back into full communion.
DARichards did a wonderful job of explaining reconciliation–thank you Da!

Doreen, your interpretation of many parts of Scripture are foreign to me. Please don’t take that as an insult–it is not meant to be so. As I contemplate the teachings and practices of the earliest Christians, I see that they are very much in line with the Catholic Church. Many of these saints, martyrs, and doctors of the Church were actual disciples of the Apostles. The deepest wells have the clearest water.
When the reformation happened, many of the Traditional teachings and undersatandings were changed or revised. I cannot accept that our Lord allowed Christians to believe in doctrines such as the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and then decided to change it to a purely symbolic understanding 1600 years later. It just doesn’t ring true!
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are beautifully complimentary. And so although I do not for one moment question your faith or relationship in Jesus Christ, I do believe there is a deeper and more complete way to know Him.

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

I am saying that I am not dense or thick-headed in general…and so if I couldn’t ascertain all the beauty of the pageantry expressed in the Mass, and I could not find the way out of the darkness of sin, then there was a problem in the delivery.

Only God, by His grace, can reveal this beauty and pageantry to you.

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

Now granted, I moved a lot as a child…so my foundation was sketchy…and that may have seriously impacted the continuity of learning I might have had in one diocese…but that does not explain these years of adulthood that were lost in sin and despair.

I thank the Lord that you were delivered from this. Despair is the worst of conditions. Everyone goes through this “dark night of the soul”. But God, through His endless mercy, knows what is best for us.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Gottle of Geer:

Conversion is a grace - that is why apologetic and reason and force are all useless at converting people.

Are you discouraging evangelization? Apologetics and reasoning are both fueled by the grace of God!

 

[Mickey]

Doreen:

I am glad, Mickey, that you have found beauty and joy in the presentation of the Gospel through the traditions (I mean no disrespect) and the rituals of the Mass. I believe you have come to know the Lord in a real way. But too few of your counterparts share your experience, would you agree?

I cannot agree. I can only speak for my experiences. Where I live, the parishes are vibrant and filled with the peace and love of Christ. The youth groups are thriving and the fellowship is family-like. I do not know where you live or the Catholic parishes in your area, so you may have a different scenario.

Doreen:

I believe that – at the first – The Mass was ordained as a beautiful ceremony, and a celebration. But somewhere the truth is getting messy and murky and lost, and folks are missing out on the promises.

Again, I must disagree. I see the truth as clear and unambiguous. The people are living out the promises of Christ.

 

[Mickey]

JSmitty2005:

Are you discouraging evangelization? Apologetics and reasoning are both fueled by the grace of God!

I think he is saying that we can only assist in planting seeds. By grace, God will water and nurture the seed. The resulting fruit will be according to the will of God.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Doreen:

I am glad, Mickey, that you have found beauty and joy in the presentation of the Gospel through the traditions (I mean no disrespect) and the rituals of the Mass. I believe you have come to know the Lord in a real way. But too few of your counterparts share your experience, would you agree?

I believe that – at the first – The Mass was ordained as a beautiful ceremony, and a celebration. But somewhere the truth is getting messy and murky and lost, and folks are missing out on the promises.

I can’t agree either. If I did agree with you, then I wouldn’t be here on these forums along with the other 34,240 members, most of whom I would assume to be Catholic.

Also, when exactly did the truth of the Mass get “messy and murky and lost”?

 

[JSmitty2005]

Mickey:

I think he is saying that we can only assist in planting seeds. By grace, God will water and nurture the seed. The resulting fruit will be according to the will of God.

I can totally agree with that then. That’s the whole point, but when some people use ambiguous language , it’s hard to tell what they really mean.

 

[Mickey]

DARichards:

Practices can be changed. For example, the Eastern Orthodox Church which is still in communion with Rome does allow their priests to marry. The Western (Latin) practice is for their priests to remain celebate. This however is not a matter of faith, but of practice…

I must correct you here if I may. As an Eastern Catholic, we resemble the Eastern Orthodox Church but we are not Eastern Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox are not in communion with Rome. We are in communion with Rome because we are Catholic—East and West breathing with both lungs. Peace to you.

The worst of sinners,
Mickey

 

[Mickey]

JSmitty2005:

I can totally agree with that then. That’s the whole point, but when some people use ambiguous language , it’s hard to tell what they really mean.

Ah, the written word can be easily misconstrued and misinterpreted without the proper teaching authority.

 

[DARichards]

Mickey:

I must correct you here if I may. As an Eastern Catholic, we resemble the Eastern Orthodox Church but we are not Eastern Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox are not in communion with Rome. We are in communion with Rome because we are Catholic—East and West breathing with both lungs. Peace to you.

The worst of sinners,
Mickey

Thanks for the correction. I meant the Eastern Catholic. I am still trying to get used to all the different terms.

On another note, I apologize for the length of this post, but I found a list of “Questions for Bible Christians” written by David Palm. There are many, many, so these are only a few. If any are interested in the entire list, I can either post a link, or contact me and I can send them to you…

1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?
3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?
4. some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:8 13). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?
5. Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?

(And why does the Protestant NIV change the word “tradition” to “teaching”?)

1. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?
2. Where in the Bible is God’s Word restricted only to what is written down?