To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

[DARichards]

kujo313:

In ANY sense, God did NOT need any assistance.

I agree with you 100%. God could have redeemed us without human intervention. But that is not what He chose to do. He has chosen to give us the ability as humans to co-operate with Him in His plan of redemption. And that is what He did with Mary. Mary could have said “No”. Just as we have the ability to say no. But she didn’t. “Be it unto me according to thy will.” She totally submitted herself to the will of God. She chose to have God Incarnate grow in her womb. She chose to give birth to Him. She chose to nurture Him as a child. She chose submission to a call that was greater than herself. Mary was the very first Christian. She is the model that we should all strive for. Why? Look at her life. She led her life in total submission to the purpose that Christ was put on the earth for. To serve Him. To glorify Him. It is because of this that Mary is the greatest among all the Saints. As Christ grew in her and dwelt in her, so He grows and dwells in the Church because we are His Body here on earth, and as Mary was the mother of Christ, She is still lifting up our needs to her Son, the author and finisher of our faith, the one who redeemed us from the power of sin and death.

kujo313:

God can make sons of Abraham from stones (Matthew 3:9). By Mary giving birth to Jesus, the prophecy from Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled as Jesus fulfilled ALL of the Messaniac prophecies.
Mary was only a sign. Just as Jesus coming out of Egypt and that none of His bones shall be broken.
Also, Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Mary was just a sign? A sign of what? The Ark of the Covenant was a sign of what? The Ark of the Covenant was a sign of–(hold on to your seat) Mary! Why? What “lived” in the Ark of the Coventant? Aaron’s blossoming rod, a jar of manna, and the Ten Commandments. What were these a sign of ? Yes. You got it…Christ. As these items were in the Ark, so Christ grew and formed in the womb of a spotless Virgin without stain of Original Sin…Mary, the Blessed Mother of God.
Again from www.catholicconvert.com
The Holy Spirit Overshadows Mary
The very same Greek word for “overshadow” is used by Gabriel when he tells Mary that the Holy Spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant. There is sexual imagery used here and the result of the overshadowing is the presence of God in the womb of Mary, just like the presence of God dwelling in the Ark of the Covenant in the tabernacle. I don’t think the Holy Spirit chose to use the rarely used Greek word ἐπισκιάζω in both places without purpose.

If someone reads Luke’s gospel without thinking like a Jew or having a deep understanding the Old Testament and its types and symbols, this interesting bit of information about the Ark and Mary would probably slip past them. Luke is suggesting there is a parallel between the Old Testament Ark as the dwelling place of God and Mary as the new dwelling of God, but this time God came to dwell upon the earth in the flesh.

Jesus coming out of Egypt was not a sign, it was an actual fullfillment of the Children of Israel coming out of Egypt into the Promised land.

kujo313:

Mary did NOT try to “wedge” herself into the Trinity, man did hundreds of years later.

Once again, the Catholic Church doesn’t “wedge” Mary into the Godhead…

Please read this article at the following link:
catholic-convert.com/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/Documents/MaryAndWorship.doc

kujo313:

Obviously, neither one of us is going to budge on our beliefs. You can follow traditions of men that was made hundreds of years after Jesus. Meanwhile, I will follow the “tradition” started by Jesus and clearly followed by His disciples.

If you aren’t going to budge on your beliefs, and try to at least take an honest look at what the teachings of the Catholic Church are, (whether you agree or not) then why are you on a Catholic Answers forum?

 

[reneeville]

Why Alfie, in how many different Catholic parishes have you attended Mass that you can make such a generalization “I* have rarely heard a Catholic priest be able to preach the gospel*”? A Catholic priest doesn’t have to have notes either…and what would be wrong with re-reading a passage from the Bible while delivering a sermon / homily? Interestingly, in years gone by, I said similar things (anti-Catholic) when in all reality, I knew nothing about the faith (shame on me). Well, let me clue you in on a little secret…protestant preachers use notes and stammer; imagine that! It was the devisiveness and lack of continuity within protestantism that finally sent my heart to seek, and the Holy Spirit impressed upon my heart the question “Why are you a protestant?” You know, after eight months of research, study, and prayer…I could not come up with a good answer. So, I once was lost, but now am found…at home in the RCC…and feeling more blessed than I could have ever imagined!
With Christ

Alfie:

You make a very good point about preaching the gospel. . It is not like listening to a spirit-filled protestant pastor. A truly born again peacher doesn’t have to have notes or the Bible to read from. He does not stammer and stumble through the sermon. The word flows naturally from him. That is because the Holy Spirit is speaking through him. I have been at different protestant churches where the congregation will pray for the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon the pastor and his sermon. Sometimes a pastor will preach a totally different sermon from the one he had originally planned to preach. The Spirit will change the topic and speak through the pastor. I have seen a couple of Charismatic Catholics be able to preach that way, but I think it is only because of a natural talent. I have met preachers that are very shy, quiet, and not very articulate and yet that can preach superb sermons.

 

[TZiggy]

alsligh:

I’m going out on a limb here, and I’ll admit at the outset that my post is probably not going to be particularly “deep” or well thought out. I’m mainly responding to try to get my own thoughts in order. Why I haven’t converted:

Grew up Baptist, took a couple of other denominational detours, and I’m back to Baptist (at 36). I’m what you might call “disillusioned” but I don’t want to be a church-hopper, so for now I’m staying put. I have serious issues with the Baptists, but I feel I’m better off where I am now than nowhere at all, which is where I was for a few very discouraging years.

Live in an area of the country where there are few Catholics. One parish in our area to cover two cities, whereas there are Baptists and Methodists on every corner (and Presbyterian, and Church of Christ, and…) I only have two local Catholic friends (although that’s probably two more than most of my Baptist friends have), and neither are particularly devout. That’s why I’m here - there’s no one to really talk to about it, and I’m not ready to go visit the local parish priest just yet.

Family pressure. Not that I’ve felt any pressure to date, given that my family doesn’t know I’ve been exploring Catholicism at all. Tiny exceptions: my mom knows I’ve read M. Angelica’s bio and been to visit her shrine a few times - most recent visit was in November and I had an absolutely amazing experience of the mystery of faith at which I am certain my 3yo daughter actually saw Jesus…but I digress (maybe another thread for another time). My husband’s family is Church of Christ and his father considers him a black sheep because he is now Baptist. It was an enormous step for him to cross that road, so to consider becoming Catholic would be quite difficult. I’ve been feeding him spoonfuls, though.

In a nutshell, converting to Catholicism isn’t like trading in my Toyota for a Honda. It’s a big deal, and if I convert it will be with my whole heart without looking back. In the meantime, I’ll continue to pray the Divine Mercy with my secret rosary, read everything I can get my hands on, and seek the Lord’s guidance.

Peace and joy,
Andi

P.S. In regards to the family pressure section, please don’t anyone tell me that Christ is more important. I already know.

alsligh:
Your post is an inspiration. Some of us grew up with the Catholic Church and never had to overcome the obstacles you describe.
Your journey in faith will be rewarded. Thank you for your post, I’ll pray that one day you feel you’ve come home. Until then…

God Bless you.

 

[Huguenot]

Eden:

Well, it doesn’t matter what some fringe Catholics tell you to do. It is not a teaching in the Church that one must have a relationship with the Virgin. A Catholic can go go their entire life with out ever asking for her intercession once and they have not violated the teachings of the Church. The possibility is there for those who seek her assistance.

“Behold your mother” was directed to John but was an invitation to us all. He loved His mother deeply. Why should we not emulate Him?

Go to scripturecatholic.com and look in the section on “The Virgin Mary”. She is the fulfillment of the promise in Genesis as the “New Eve”. While Eve rejects God, the “New Eve” rejects Satan by saying yes to God. There is a more detailed thread on this in Apologetics (started by SinginBeauty). It is really powerful when you see the foreshadowing of the coming of the Savior in the Old Testament and the paralleling fulfillment of that promise in the New Testament.

Thanks for your answers …
so …I am a better Catholic than I thought if it’s OK not to pray Mary …
as for the other topic, Mary = New Eve, I’ve already heard that type of argumentation but it seems quite far-fetched to me, sorry …

 

[kujo313]

DARichards:

I agree with you 100%. God could have redeemed us without human intervention. But that is not what He chose to do. He has chosen to give us the ability as humans to co-operate with Him in His plan of redemption. And that is what He did with Mary. Mary could have said “No”. Just as we have the ability to say no. But she didn’t. “Be it unto me according to thy will.” She totally submitted herself to the will of God. She chose to have God Incarnate grow in her womb. She chose to give birth to Him. She chose to nurture Him as a child. She chose submission to a call that was greater than herself. Mary was the very first Christian. She is the model that we should all strive for. Why? Look at her life. She led her life in total submission to the purpose that Christ was put on the earth for. To serve Him. To glorify Him. It is because of this that Mary is the greatest among all the Saints. As Christ grew in her and dwelt in her, so He grows and dwells in the Church because we are His Body here on earth, and as Mary was the mother of Christ, She is still lifting up our needs to her Son, the author and finisher of our faith, the one who redeemed us from the power of sin and death.

Mary was just a sign? A sign of what? The Ark of the Covenant was a sign of what? The Ark of the Covenant was a sign of–(hold on to your seat) Mary! Why? What “lived” in the Ark of the Coventant? Aaron’s blossoming rod, a jar of manna, and the Ten Commandments. What were these a sign of ? Yes. You got it…Christ. As these items were in the Ark, so Christ grew and formed in the womb of a spotless Virgin without stain of Original Sin…Mary, the Blessed Mother of God.
Again from www.catholicconvert.com
The Holy Spirit Overshadows Mary
The very same Greek word for “overshadow” is used by Gabriel when he tells Mary that the Holy Spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant. There is sexual imagery used here and the result of the overshadowing is the presence of God in the womb of Mary, just like the presence of God dwelling in the Ark of the Covenant in the tabernacle. I don’t think the Holy Spirit chose to use the rarely used Greek word ἐπισκιάζω in both places without purpose.

If someone reads Luke’s gospel without thinking like a Jew or having a deep understanding the Old Testament and its types and symbols, this interesting bit of information about the Ark and Mary would probably slip past them. Luke is suggesting there is a parallel between the Old Testament Ark as the dwelling place of God and Mary as the new dwelling of God, but this time God came to dwell upon the earth in the flesh.

Jesus coming out of Egypt was not a sign, it was an actual fullfillment of the Children of Israel coming out of Egypt into the Promised land.

Once again, the Catholic Church doesn’t “wedge” Mary into the Godhead…

Please read this article at the following link:
catholic-convert.com/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/Documents/MaryAndWorship.doc

If you aren’t going to budge on your beliefs, and try to at least take an honest look at what the teachings of the Catholic Church are, (whether you agree or not) then why are you on a Catholic Answers forum?

No, I’m not going to budge. Sorry. The “traditions” of Jesus and the early Church do not see Mary in that light. She should not be in our focus like that at all.
In stead of thinking of her as “blessed”, which she was, Jesus said “rather” (instead of that), “blessed are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.”
“Those”. Those who hear the calling of the priesthood and obey. Those who have a gift of singing and join the choir. Those who have the gift of “helps” and work with the homeless. Etc. Etc. Etc.
I could go on and on.
The worship of Mary is man-made and then it was looked up in Scripture. Sure, I could worship angels and yet ignore what the angel said in Rev 22: 8-9

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

Nobody in the 1st century Church lifted Mary up at all. If it was commanded, they would’ve done so.

What is done now is the result of what one Pope said 50 years ago.

 

[Huguenot]

kujo313:

No, I’m not going to budge. Sorry. The “traditions” of Jesus and the early Church do not see Mary in that light. She should not be in our focus like that at all.
In stead of thinking of her as “blessed”, which she was, Jesus said “rather” (instead of that), “blessed are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.”
“Those”. Those who hear the calling of the priesthood and obey. Those who have a gift of singing and join the choir. Those who have the gift of “helps” and work with the homeless. Etc. Etc. Etc.
I could go on and on.
The worship of Mary is man-made and then it was looked up in Scripture. Sure, I could worship angels and yet ignore what the angel said in Rev 22: 8-9

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

Nobody in the 1st century Church lifted Mary up at all. If it was commanded, they would’ve done so.

What is done now is the result of what one Pope said 50 years ago.

I agree with you ; for example, when Mary is mentioned in Acts among the disciples that were waiting for the Holy Spirit, she is just mentioned among them, she doesn’t seem to have had a special role in the early church …
and when she is mentioned in the New Testament, she is simply called “Mary”, not “blessed Mary” each time her name is pronounced … even if God really DID bless her …

 

[DARichards]

kujo313:

The worship of Mary is man-made and then it was looked up in Scripture. Sure, I could worship angels and yet ignore what the angel said in Rev 22: 8-9

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

Nobody in the 1st century Church lifted Mary up at all. If it was commanded, they would’ve done so.

Once again, (and I will repeat it every time, if need be) Mary is not worshipped by the Catholic Church. I don’t know if you are just trying to be argumentative, or what you are trying to achieve, but you are not Catholic, you are not trying to understand Catholic teachings, and you are making outside observations without understanding the theology and reasoning behind them.

Nobody here is trying to force you to believe in the Catholic theology, but we would request that you show us respect by not continuing to misrepresent us by stating on an ongoing basis that we worship Mary.

kujo313:

What is done now is the result of what one Pope said 50 years ago.

This again shows the lack of study that you have done in this issue. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary were formally defined as Doctrine within the past fifty years, but that doesn’t mean that they were new doctrines. These doctrines were held since the inception of the Christian Church, centuries prior to the Reformation. The problem is that you are approaching your faith from the typical Sola Scriptura perspective instead of researching how the Church fathers for centuries before have handled these doctrines. Surely, you’re not arrogant enough to claim that you have spiritual insight surpassing these men…

St. Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 236)
“At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost; so that the truth was shown forth, and the Ark was manifested…And the Savior came into the world bearing the incorruptible Ark, that is to say His own body” (S. Hippolytus, In Dan.vi., Patr. Gr., Tom. 10, p. 648) (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

St. Ambrose (c. 339-397)
“The prophet David danced before the Ark. Now what else should we say the Ark was but holy Mary? The Ark bore within it the tables of the Testament, but Mary bore the Heir of the same Testament itself. The former contained in it the Law, the latter the Gospel. The one had the voice of God, the other His Word. The Ark, indeed, was radiant within and without with the glitter of gold, but holy Mary shone within and without with the splendor of virginity. The one was adorned with earthly gold, the other with heavenly” (Serm. xlii. 6, Int. Opp., S. Ambrosii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

St. Athanasius (c. 296-373)
“Be mindful of us, most holy virgin, who after childbirth didst remain virgin; and grant to us for these small words great gifts from the riches of they graces, O thou full of grace. Accept them as though they were true and adequate praises in they honor; and if there is in them any virtue and any praise, we offer them as a hymn from ourselves and from all creatures to thee, full of grace, Lady, Queen, Mistress, Mother of God, and Ark of sanctification” (Orat. In Deip. Annuntiat, nn. 13, 14. Int. Opp. S. Athanasii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 80).

St. Jerome (c. 345-420)
“Behold one in truth, the handmaid of the Lord. Holy she is, in whom is no guile, all simplicity…The spouse of Christ is the ark of the covenant, within and without overlaid with gold, a keeper of the law of the Lord. As in the ark there was nothing but the tables of the Testament, so too in thee no one from outside should be thought of. Over this propitiatory, as though upon the Cherubim, the Lord is pleased to sit…The Apostle thus defines a virgin, that she should be holy in body and in spirit… (Epist. Xxii., Ad Eustoch. Nn. 18, 19, 21, 24) (Blessed Virgin, p. 216).

 

[Mickey]

kujo313:

The worship of Mary is man-made and then it was looked up in Scripture.

It has been explained to you with much clarity that the Catholic Church does not worship the blessed virgin Mary–yet you continue to intentionally put forth this falsehood. I politely ask you to refrain from stating this misrepresentation. Thank you.

 

[St.Eric]

People need to remember that VERY LITTLE of what Jesus taguht is actually contained in the bibel. The bible itself states this. That is why he made the church, “the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15

Jesus also never wrote anything down. There are no books in the bible written by his physical, fleshly hand.

Traditions- they began with Christ. Part of the not written down bit in the bible. I would suggents everyone get a copy of the 3 volume set by William A. Jurgens “The faith of the early fathers.” The beleifs of the early church are there. And might I add, they look nothing like the creeds of a Baptist or Assembly of God church.

 

[chubsoda]

To SAHmommy,

Your statements are confusing and contradictory. You mention that the “Catholic Church requires total obedience to doctrines that I just don’t agree with”. Just what do you think you’ll expect as a Baptist, Lutheran, or Pentecostal? A party every Sunday? Trust me, as a life-long Baptist, you will be expected to adhere to their culture and rules as well and if you do not, you’ll be ostracized. And further more, we’re not allowed to drink alcohol of any kind nor dance at any time. LOL. The stiffness of a Baptist church congregation looks like a funeral compared to what I have experienced at Mass. You then state, “I just know I could never be a good Catholic, so I’d rather go where I feel the Holy Spirit is leading me rather than being dishonest with myself and God by pretending to believe something I don’t.” This statement tells me that your faith is either non-existent or very weak, and it will it be regardless of whether your Catholic, Baptist, or practicing Voodoo in Haiti. Look within yourself—you can’t expect a religion, with all its imperfections to lead you without you first wanting it. Religion is man’s way to reach God; the Holy Bible is God’s way to reach man. No religion is perfect. God is perfect. But having a church and similar faith allows many of the same faith to get together. I like doing this and its fun. I don’t look at church as some mundane, boring thing I have to do.

Also, I have been thinking of converting to the Catholic faith. I have researched and found many, many false statements that have been circulated throughout the years about their faith in the media and at my church. I am disappointed with the lies. I also have been touched by the Holy Spirit to look seriously into conversion because something is telling me it is real. REALITY CHECK >> All faiths have problems—that’s because it is made up of humans. And if a church were perfect, none of us would be allowed inside because we are not perfect, so quit complaining. Why? God would not allow an imperfect being to be in His presence. Also, don’t be so quick to believe other folks not of the Catholic faith because their thinking may be corrupted, or they may have heard something in the media. Use common sense and good judgment in establishing your thoughts. Too many of us act like children and haven’t grown up to be adults in faith (Hebrews). We’re given a brain—use it.

I have been very disappointed with my Baptist faith in recent years. I am bored, feel like no one cares at my church, and want socialization. I have tried to get involved, but it’s like a lot of folks say about going to a Baptist church; you’re either in or you’re out. It reminds me of high school at times, and I’m not in the mood for this anymore. Reasons for changing go back to my childhood when my step dad and his mom took me to Mass. I really liked it. They were devout Catholics and the church was always considerate towards me. I can’t say that for the past two churches. When I approach a Deacon or Pastor for conversation, I am ‘put on hold’ or ‘given a quick hello’ and then I go home. Odd behavior for folks that want your money and my time. Now, this is not to say they are wrong or being inconsiderate. I don’t believe that they are but sometimes churches get into habits and don’t do a reality check to bringing themselves back into focus for the reasons they exist.

As for following rules? Will going to another church other than a Catholic church mean that you don’t need rules? To the contrary. To think otherwise means that you are looking for an easy religion and an easy way to Heaven. If anyone tells you that this easy way will get you to Heaven, you’re being deceived. Jesus plainly stated this and warned anyone not to accept this type of thinking. Regardless of the rules of any church, you and your heart alone know if your faith is true to God. You can’t lie to God. Church is only a conduit for people, and it is only as good as the person that gets involved. This being said, don’t blame other’s for the stain of the Catholic Church or any denomination. No church is perfect. If they were, we wouldn’t have needed Christ.

 

[DARichards]

Chubsoda,

Your honesty and openness is refreshing. I am in process of converting to the Catholic Church from the Reformed Presbyterian Church. My experience and advice would be to find a priest you can relate with and they will answer as many questions as you need and never put pressure on you or force you to join the Church. Even if you decide to stay Baptist, the understanding that you will receive of the Catholic Church will change your life…it has mine…

Pax Tecum
DARichards

 

[Eden]

Wow. Thank you, chubsoda. I’m bumping this for others to get a chance to read your post.

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

Nobody in the 1st century Church lifted Mary up at all. If it was commanded, they would’ve done so.

You are wrong. While the main focus of the first century was dedicated to getting the message out about Christ, the traditions about Mary are there right from the beginning. I have evidence of that which I will share if we continue with this. I’m just confused as to what specifically you take issue with. Go onto the Eastern Christianity forum and ask the Orthodox there is they believe in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the title “Mother of God”, etc. You will see that your beliefs about Mary come from the Reformation, from man, not from God.

What is done now is the result of what one Pope said 50 years ago.

What are you talking about when you say “what is done now”? Now you are mixing together all kinds of objections such as the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the title “Mother of God”, the role as intercessor, the Immaculate Conception, etc. into one fuzzy statement about “50 years ago”. Please specifically state, point by point what you object to regarding Our Lady and the Church. So far your responses sound like, “I don’t really know what your teachings are on Mary. But I know I don’t like it.”

 

[Eden]

Huguenot:

Thanks for your answers …
so …I am a better Catholic than I thought if it’s OK not to pray Mary …
as for the other topic, Mary = New Eve, I’ve already heard that type of argumentation but it seems quite far-fetched to me, sorry …

Have you read some of the early Church Fathers on this? They didn’t find it far-fetched and they were much closer in time to the events of our Savior’s life.

 

[MommyofFive]

Alfie:

I know this is the standard answer that protestants give for rejecting the Catholic church but I will say it again. Catholicism is based on tradition and not the authority of the Bible.

Wow! Are you truly kidding me? The Catholic Church is TOTALLY based on the Bible! Even a teeny skimming over Catholic teachings makes that incredibly apparent…or attending Mass can show you how based on the Bible the Catholic Church truly is.

Don’t want to appear like I’m lashing out, but as I was skimming over this thread I didn’t see anyone defending that comment (it probably was responded to…I just haven’t read all the way through yet).

While it is true that there are traditions in the Catholic Church, they are by no means the basis of our beliefs. Jesus set the foundation for us…it’s all over the Bible. The Catholic Church’s beliefs, faith, teachings (whatever you want to call it) is based on biblical fact and on the authority of Jesus Christ.

It was those precise traditions that drew me to the Church. As a Methodist and a daughter of evangelical, gospel-quartet singing parents, I was exposed to the love of Jesus Christ for us, scripture, bible studies, etc. But, something was always missing. Everything seemed so hypocrytical (not to say there are those in the Catholic Church like that; there are…but that’s for another thread). I bounced from church to church, always finding something I couldn’t handle: the fact that the “rules” changed at a moment’s notice…don’t like the pastor? Fire him and get a new one by week’s end. Don’t like the “rules” in your church? Get a group together and start a new church. It seems too volatile to me. The fact that I can go to ANY Catholice Church Mass at ANY time and hear the same exact thing I would hear if I were at home at that time comforts me. The “rules” are cut and dry, black and white, given to us by Jesus Himself…so room for error, no room for interpretation. I know where I stand at all times in Him. I know what happens if I “screw up.” I know I can “traditionally” hear the words of Jesus the same way in ANY Catholic Church…if that is the traditions that scare my former protestant brothers and sisters away from the Catholic Church, it just proves my point on how hypocrytical some can be.

Sorry, I think I got WAAAAYYYY off topic, but something moved me to respond to this.

Wanted, also, to thank most of you on this thread for debating this so politely (if not passionately! ). It’s refreshing to see different perspectives without bashing each other’s heads in!

 

[Brian_C]

Amen MommyofFive!

I think that’s one of the things that appeals to me, as well-stability. The Catholic Church is the beacon that has always been there shining the light of truth (sorry if that sounds melodramatic!). I can remember when I was about 8 or 10 years old, the preacher at my Baptist church (the same one who baptized me) was voted out by the congregation because he “rambled too much.” Then the one who told lots of jokes in his sermons. Then there was the preacher who was “too fire and brimstone.” Then the one who was booted because “he socializes with the college football team.”

But the traditions of the Catholic Church, ancient as they are, seem to stand above the rest. So much of the mass goes right back to the beginning of Christianity. We should take the mantle of fundamentalism from those who concoct things as they go. I can’t see how you can be more fundamental and orthodox than Catholic Christianity.

 

[Doreen]

I just posted this on the “Protestant Argument for the Eucharist” thread, and then realized I needed to share it on here, since the conversations on here are partly what I was referring to…

I agree with you, Mickey. I think the devil’s been trying to demolish the church of Christ since its inception. The Catholic Church (as it is known today) has suffered great attack from the devil…just as he has attacked any church that might bring people to Christ.

I feel like I have gotten emotional in my recent posts, and I have not been able to even think clearly. I apologize for this.

I haven’t lost track of my basic purpose here though…and that is to try to understand the Catholic Church. And to try to settle for myself why it didn’t bring me to a saving faith in Christ.

I am certain that the church of Christ began with all intentions to maintain the truth of the Gospel. I guess I just question whether it has been able to do so.

I think I speak for a lot fo people who have left the church…it’s hard to understand how this can still be the “Church of Christ” when what we see is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit in Catholics, but the sway of the world. That is the way it is here in middle-America.

I just spoke to a woman at my church on Sunday. She is a very devout Catholic, but she comes to our services on Sunday…then she also goes to Mass.

She shared with me that she’s on a “Familia Team”??? I may have that wrong, but it sounds like a study group of some kind…women meeting and discussing matters of faith???

She said she was so disgusted because the leader/facilitator of the group encouraged everyone to go to a “club” nearby after their meeting, and they sat and drank alcohol 'til midnight, gossiping and cursing, included.

Now, this would have been typical of me and friends of mine when I was still in the Catholic Church. We saw nothing wrong with drunken partying or cursing or gossip. We had no higher standard set for ourselves. Sure, deep down, we knew it was a “wild” lifestyle…but we didn’t think it unhealthy or sinful.

This is why I struggle so much. I just don’t understand why I didn’t come to a point of really allowing my faith to meet up with my reality in the RCC. It was like faith in God had no real impact on my day-to-day existence.

I see on this forum that there are many Catholics who live to love and serve the Lord as we all were commissioned to do before leaving Mass every Sunday…but it seems to me that this is a major exception to the rule. I mean, where I live…middle class Americans are living for one thing…to be upper class Americans.

It is truly a sad state of affairs.

I feel like the discussion got ugly the past couple days, and I don’t want that to be the case, because it just blocks us from learning anything…I want to LEARN from you!

Eden,
I apologize if my tone started to get rough…I was feeling attacked.

I am just trying to work out in my mind what has happened to the church here in the mid-west that has zapped it of its power to save…to transform lives.

Obviously … I see it as the work of the devil…but I want to know why so many in my part of the world are missing out on the peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, and self-control that is promised through the Holy Spirit. That is not to judge anyone…it’s just the observation made by one who has walked in those shoes.

Thanks for listening.
D.

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“In repentence and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength.” Isaiah 30:15

 

[St.Eric]

Hmmm… a “devout Catholic who also attends Sunday protestant services regularly”… Sounds suspect to me. Almost an oxymoron. Why would a devout Catholic regularly attend a protestant church?

 

[Brian_C]

doreen:

I see on this forum that there are many Catholics who live to love and serve the
Lord as we all were commissioned to do before leaving Mass every Sunday…but it
seems to me that this is a major exception to the rule. I mean, where I live…middle
class Americans are living for one thing…to be upper class Americans.

It is truly a sad state of affairs.

Doreen, I don’t think this is limited to Catholics at all. Rather, it is a commentary on our society in general. There are those that think they have made themselves right w/ the Lord just by showing up “Here’s your hour, Jesus!” Afterward, back to our sinful selves.

 

[Huguenot]

St.Eric:

Hmmm… a “devout Catholic who also attends Sunday protestant services regularly”… Sounds suspect to me. Almost an oxymoron. Why would a devout Catholic regularly attend a protestant church?

Well, I am a “devout Protestant” and I go to Mass sometimes …true, not regularly, but …do you think it’s wrong ? and some Catholics attend services at my church …
I think it is a good way of getting to know each other …