To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

[St.Eric]

Eden:

That sounds completely uninteresting. You came here to question our teachings with your focus mainly on Mary which we have tried to address. Why in the world do you assume Catholics would be interested a thread called “Ask the Protestant”?

Go to a Catholic site to “Ask the Protestant.” that is funny. Kujo should start his/her own web-site.

 

[kujo313]

St.Eric:

Like I said before. Very LITTLE of what Jesus did, said, and taught was recorded in the bible. And, a belief does not have to be officially defined when everyone takes it for granted as being true. Only when suffcient numbers of people call the belief into question does it need to be offically defined. I have said this once before and it was ignored.

John 21:20-22

20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”)
21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

Peter asked Jesus about John. Jesus told Peter to focus on Him, not John. As if He was saying “Peter, worry about yourself.”

Use any other person in place of John, and it’s the same. “YOU must follow Me.”
“What about Mary?” “You follow me”
“What about what so-and-so said in the 2nd century?” “You follow ME.”
“What about what the Pope said?” “You follow me.”

Follow Jesus. Learn from Him.

“How can you say that about the ‘Holy Mother’?” “You follow me.”

It’s not hard. No need for a meeting.

Follow Jesus. That’s why we’re Christians.

 

[Eden]

St.Eric:

Go to a Catholic site to “Ask the Protestant.” that is funny. Kujo should start his/her own web-site.

Yes, he should get his own website. Look at all the possible thread topics that could be started based on kujo’s misunderstanding of Church teachings. Yet the one he decides on is “Ask the Protestant”.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

John 21:20-22

20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”)
21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

Peter asked Jesus about John. Jesus told Peter to focus on Him, not John. As if He was saying “Peter, worry about yourself.”

Use any other person in place of John, and it’s the same. “YOU must follow Me.”
“What about Mary?” “You follow me”
“What about what so-and-so said in the 2nd century?” “You follow ME.”
“What about what the Pope said?” “You follow me.”

Follow Jesus. Learn from Him.

“How can you say that about the ‘Holy Mother’?” “You follow me.”

It’s not hard. No need for a meeting.

Follow Jesus. That’s why we’re Christians.

Luke 10:16 NIV • “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Matthew 18:18 NIV •er
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be Or have been] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be Or have been] loosed in heaven.

Ephesians 2:19-20
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

We hear Christ through his word, the church, and the apostolic succession.

 

[AquinasXVI]

kujo313:

EXACTLY my point! THIRD CENTURY! You can’t even believe that nobody had a clue after Jesus said this. He spoke plainly after His resurrection. It is written that He showed His disciples everything that applied to Him as the Messiah.
CLEARLY and without a doubt He would’ve mentioned Mary and her “role” IF it was true and of utmost importance.

But there was silence.

Why? Because It was not what we need to focus on.

Silence. Because it was a given…and until it was questioned, then it was written.

Secondly, make a catechisis on what Christ was doing when he said this (by the way as He is dying).

in XT.

 

[Goldy]

ReflectHim:

not anti- catholic, but I don’t believe it’s the church founded by Jesus Christ, nor do i agree with some of their “rules.” I know others that follow scripture closer than the catholic church. i guess i don’t agree with their interpretation of the Bible.

I’ve been Catholic my entire life. My wife has been Catholic for only six years (right after we were married). The “rules” is one of her hangups with the Catholic Church. She sometimes tells me: “If jumping off a cliff was a Catholic rule, you would have been long gone.”
Here’s what I would say to the “rules” issue:

Why do we have rules in our society? What if there were no traffic rules (no speed limit, no stop signs, traffic lights, etc.)? I imagine the roads would be pretty darn dangerous!! Rules are designed to PROTECT people. They are designed to help us and keep us safe, on the straigh and narrow. Do you think the Catholic Church just makes all those rules up to hurt people? Not condemning you, just trying to clear that issue up. God Bless

 

[kujo313]

Eden:

Yes, he should get his own website. Look at all the possible thread topics that could be started based on kujo’s misunderstanding of Church teachings. Yet the one he decides on is “Ask the Protestant”.

I dont call it “misunderstanding”, I call it “experience” and “studying”.

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

I dont call it “misunderstanding”, I call it “experience” and “studying”.

You can call it what you feel the need to call it. But your posts show you do not understand what the Church teaches. You present yourself as knowing more about what our Church teaches than we do. Not a good start to a fruitful conversation.

 

[reneeville]

Hi Kujo~
We do NOT worship Mary. She is revered, as well she should be.
In Christ~

kujo313:

Ok. IF that is true, then nowhere in the Old Testament does it say just WHAT to do with the virgin. It does NOT say to worhsip her.
Jesus tells Satan that God, alone, is to be worshipped. The angel tells John to not worship him, but to worship God.

Worship of Mary is not scriptual or traditional. It was brought up hundred of years later by man; a new “tradition” started.

I prefer Acts 5:29
“But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: ‘We ought to obey God rather than men.’”

The disciples (and their disciples) did not lift Mary up. Instead, they taught about Jesus. There is enough intentions in their writings to prove my point.

Yet, some Catholics follow “traditions” made by men hundreds of years later.

One of the things on Pope John Paul II’s agenda was to declare Mary as co-Mediator. I believe that the current Pope is interested in the same. This idea is NOT from the Bible, but from thousands of lay people and ordinary people from around the world TODAY.

Mmm. Obey God or man?

If the current Pope declares that Mary is co-Mediator, what would you do?

 

[reneeville]

Hi Eric~
You can ask this former protestant…who is so JOYful to be Catholic…

With Christ…

St.Eric:

Go to a Catholic site to “Ask the Protestant.” that is funny. Kujo should start his/her own web-site.

 

[reneeville]

Which Bible and how do you justify?

“Bible Only” is a great place to start:

It has the quotes and teachings of Jesus, our Messiah. It is about God and how mankind can be with Him THROUGH his sacrificial Lamb, Jesus.
Jesus came to us. We had the signs all throughout the Old Testiment. Those “signs” was mainly for the people to know the Messiah when He showed up.
Jesus IS that Messiah! He taught in synagouges and out. He gathered disciples to carry on His work. He carefully and plainly explained to them what to teach and do. They was NOT taught to make things up as they went or to accept teachings and traditions from others outside their own.
In other words, they TAUGHT was Jesus directly told them.

Today, the Catholic Church teaches what so-and-so said in 300-something, what some one else said in 1950, what yet another person said in 600 years ago.

This is NOT what Jesus taught! Sola Scriptula makes sure that the true Church of Jesus Christ stays on course! And the Dead Sea Scrolls tell us that we ARE on course IF we stick with the teachings of Jesus, which are, for us, convienently inside a Book called The Bible.
We don’t have to hear bits and pieces from all over the world, some one put it all together for us.

Stay the course! “Mother” worship started hundreds of years AFTER the Bible was written (not put together yet for us). Check out photos and videos of Latin-American countries and from Poland. They show thousands of people carrying statues of Mary and paintings of her. They say things like: “Holy mother! Save us!”
“Saving” us is NOT what Mary was called to do. She was called to be the “sign” prophecied by Isaiah.
The “tradition” of Mary is NOT the “tradition” that Paul mentions, but merely what came from man.

I’m not saying that Catholics should leave the Catholic Church. I am saying that some “traditions” should be away with. Maybe IF the “traditions” of the Catholic Church was from the origional Gospels (as was also taught by Peter, Paul, James and John).

 

[kujo313]

Eden:

You can call it what you feel the need to call it. But your posts show you do not understand what the Church teaches. You present yourself as knowing more about what our Church teaches than we do. Not a good start to a fruitful conversation.

I understand enough.
Luke 11:27-28
And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

After that, I cannot even fanthom somebody going against Jesus. Sure, answer with John 19:27

Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

But the proof is what happend AFTERWARDS. Nobody had a clue until years after the apostles died. However, many more people heard the Word of God and kept it. (Note the large church growth listed in Acts.)

It is beyond a doubt that the latter is what should be given attention to.

And, THAT, is not what is taught in the Catholic Church and one of the reasons why I’m protestant.

This forum asked, and I’ve answered. With that, what are you going to label me? Damned? Lost because I havent accepted Mary as my “mother”?

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

I understand enough.
Luke 11:27-28
And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

The first thing you do not understand is that Tradition and Scripture are the “Word of God”. You seem to think the Word of God comes down only through the Bible.

Regarding Luke 11:27-28

Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

 

[kujo313]

Eden:

The first thing you do not understand is that Tradition and Scripture are the “Word of God”. You seem to think the Word of God comes down only through the Bible.

Regarding Luke 11:27-28

Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

If tradition is Biblical, then it’s ok. If tradition takes you away from Scripture, then you are wandering away.

 

[DARichards]

kujo313:

If tradition is Biblical, then it’s ok. If tradition takes you away from Scripture, then you are wandering away.

So what you are saying then is that when we pray “Hail Mary, the Lord is with you, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”, that would be alright because that is from Scripture, as the angel proclaimed to Mary…(Luke 1:28-31)

 

[kujo313]

DARichards:

So what you are saying then is that when we pray “Hail Mary, the Lord is with you, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”, that would be alright because that is from Scripture, as the angel proclaimed to Mary…(Luke 1:28-31)

Let’s break it down.

“Hail Mary” - Heavens no! It’s more like a “Hip hip hurray” -thing. After that meeting with the angel, there was no ceremonial life that followed Mary at all.

“The Lord is with you” - Of course. Mary was surrounded like the mountain top that Moses met with the Lord. (Yet, nobody did any indepth talking about that mountain).

“Blessed art thou amongst women” - Note: the same word “blessed” is used in Jesus’ sermon on the mount; the same “blessing”. Mary IS blessed among all woman of that time, she was to be the virgin mentioned by the prophet Isaiah! SHE, of all the other virgins that was there, and was there before.

“Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus” - That’s self-explanitory.

For all the years before Jesus, Israel was looking for its Messiah. Looking, NOT to admire or give attention to the vessel that he came from, but to the Messiah, himself. Jesus IS God reconciling us to Him.

The focus of all mankind is to be right with God, not to admire what He uses. (a virgin, a burning bush, a mountaintop, etc.)

 

[Eden]

BIBLICAL:

The prayer begins, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” Luke 1:28 (The angel Gabriel is carrying a message from God. When we pray these words we are repeating words from God.)

BIBLICAL:

“Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42.

BIBLICAL:

"Holy Mary, (was she not Holy?)

Mother of God, (was she not the Mother of God?)

pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. (Asking her to pray for us. What’s not scriptural here?)

Amen."

 

[DARichards]

kujo313:

Let’s break it down.

“Hail Mary” - Heavens no! It’s more like a “Hip hip hurray” -thing. After that meeting with the angel, there was no ceremonial life that followed Mary at all.

“The Lord is with you” - Of course. Mary was surrounded like the mountain top that Moses met with the Lord. (Yet, nobody did any indepth talking about that mountain).

“Blessed art thou amongst women” - Note: the same word “blessed” is used in Jesus’ sermon on the mount; the same “blessing”. Mary IS blessed among all woman of that time, she was to be the virgin mentioned by the prophet Isaiah! SHE, of all the other virgins that was there, and was there before.

“Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus” - That’s self-explanitory.

Actually, Kujo, you better check your Greek, Check an interlinear Greek Bible and you will find out a couple of interesting facts.

1. The word “Blessed” as used in Matthew 5 is the word “makarios”, which can be also translated as happy…
2. The word “Blessed” as used in Luke 1 is the word “Eulogeo” which is translated as a) to praise,; celebrate with praises
   b) to invoke blessings c) to consecrate a thing with solemn prayers (to pronounce a consecretory blessing upon…

So that argument is invalid…

kujo313:

For all the years before Jesus, Israel was looking for its Messiah. Looking, NOT to admire or give attention to the vessel that he came from, but to the Messiah, himself. Jesus IS God reconciling us to Him.

The focus of all mankind is to be right with God, not to admire what He uses. (a virgin, a burning bush, a mountaintop, etc.)

So, since Jesus was a Jew, and knew the law, and taught the law, and since one of the Commandments is to “Honor thy father and thy mother”, How did Jesus do this? Did He do this throughout His life, just as you and I would??

Obviously yes.

Therefore as Christians, we follow Jesus’ example of honoring those He honors, in the way He honors them, hence “Hail, Mary…”

 

[kujo313]

Eden:

BIBLICAL:

The prayer begins, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” Luke 1:28 (The angel Gabriel is carrying a message from God. When we pray these words we are repeating words from God.)

BIBLICAL:

“Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42.

BIBLICAL:

"Holy Mary, (was she not Holy?) “Holy” - set aside. Aren’t we all “set aside; Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power”? (dictionary.com)

Mother of God, (was she not the Mother of God?) Can’t be. God always IS, WAS and EVER SHALL BE. It’s common sense. Jesus moved away from the idea of giving attention to Mary. (Luke 11:27-28) He said “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Any woman who does the Will of God IS His mother.

pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. (Asking her to pray for us. What’s not scriptural here?) Was she called to be the mediator between us and Jesus? For there is only ONE Mediator between God and man: Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 10:1 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."

John 10:7-9 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

Amen."

 

[kujo313]

DARichards:

Actually, Kujo, you better check your Greek, Check an interlinear Greek Bible and you will find out a couple of interesting facts.

1. The word “Blessed” as used in Matthew 5 is the word “makarios”, which can be also translated as happy…
2. The word “Blessed” as used in Luke 1 is the word “Eulogeo” which is translated as a) to praise,; celebrate with praises
   b) to invoke blessings c) to consecrate a thing with solemn prayers (to pronounce a consecretory blessing upon…

So that argument is invalid…

So, since Jesus was a Jew, and knew the law, and taught the law, and since one of the Commandments is to “Honor thy father and thy mother”, How did Jesus do this? Did He do this throughout His life, just as you and I would??

Obviously yes.

Therefore as Christians, we follow Jesus’ example of honoring those He honors, in the way He honors them, hence “Hail, Mary…”

Sure, Jesus honored Mary as his earthly mother. That’s it.