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SirThomasMore
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lol…what kind of person demands references for something a person was TOLD! Have LDS Church publications told you how to make a tunafish sandwhich? No? Then how in the world can you make one?
Serioiusly…are you for real?
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RebeccaJ
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Besides, his posts are full of exactly what you are saying.
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RebeccaJ
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I hope you don’t think I’m seeking some kind of reward for what I post. Because that idea is sort of horrifying, if you know what I mean.
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PaulDupre
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There is a pervasive sense in Mormonism that one should not seek any knowledge that could possibly endanger one’s testimony.
This is well expressed in apostle Boyd K. Packer’s teaching:
This is well expressed in apostle Boyd K. Packer’s teaching:
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Pahoran
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The kind of person who knows that if the Church actually holds any given position, it is going to be written down somewhere.
That kind of person.
Do you know how to construct a valid analogy?
If so, would you care to try again?
Yes, as a matter of fact.
Regards,
Pahoran
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Pahoran
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Todd520
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I can provide tons of quotes from LDS leaders urging members to learn and explore. But this does not deny STM or Stormy’s personal experience.
I was raised Catholic and my nuns would give me that “because I said so” answer when I asked questions they didn’t like. Catholic doctrine did not stifle my mind, but local leaders did try.
Let’s not confuse Church Policy and Doctrine with with “group think” and “group behavior” that is seen in any group with traditions, be it religous or even a college fraternity/sorority. The “Don’t ask” behavior is often group related and from ignorance.
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Caprica
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You mean like the Index Librorum Prohibitorum?
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Pahoran
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I’m sorry, that does not follow. For some real information about LDS doctrine, please see my thread here.
Call for references, please. If President Kimball said such a thing (I served a mission during his presidency) I would most probably have heard about it, and it would certainly be written down somewhere.
I’m sorry, that does not follow. For some real information about LDS doctrine, please see my thread here.
Regards,
Pahoran
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StevieD
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The Index no longer exists and, for the most part it dealt with indecent publications but Boyd Packer’s statement has never been repudiated by the LDS. Simply said it is ‘read only information that supports our view’ and ignore all others EVEN THOUGH TRUE.
I have spoken to Mormon missionaries who have never heard of Mark Hoffman for instance and didn’t know that the ‘church’ admits (because they have no choice) that JS was married to numerous women. These kids were from Utah! Their parents must have known about Hoffman, their bishop must have known about Hoffman and JS’s polygamy. These people might have guessed that someone somewhere might bring this up but they preferred to send them out unprepared to deal with the inconvenient past rather than tell them the truth.
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stormy99
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I was point blank told by my Bishop not to read anti Mormon literature nor question what is done…and not to read it on the internet…it doesn’t have to be written it is said all the time…Everyone I needed and wanted to know would be revealed in time…too bad if I was dead by then…I’d just have to wait.
Wait for what? Why would or should I have to wait to learn about my Faith?
That doesn’t make sense…don’t think about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and all their wives…etc…why not it’s true…explain that to me…and he said…I don’t need to and you don’t need to know…Really…the exit began…
If a religion cann’t tell me the truth be it good or bad…then I don’t believe them…and what they teach can’t be trusted.
I have books to read…the Cathecism of the Catholic Church…the Bible and priests and deacons who will ask any question I may ask and if they don’t know the answer they will find it for me…NOT one of them…you don’t need to know this.
They wanted me to ask questions and question the Faith so I would know that the Catholic Church was the way I wanted to join to be in communion with God…you tell me that the LDS church does this…you can’t because it does…and it never has…
stormy
Wait for what? Why would or should I have to wait to learn about my Faith?
That doesn’t make sense…don’t think about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and all their wives…etc…why not it’s true…explain that to me…and he said…I don’t need to and you don’t need to know…Really…the exit began…
If a religion cann’t tell me the truth be it good or bad…then I don’t believe them…and what they teach can’t be trusted.
I have books to read…the Cathecism of the Catholic Church…the Bible and priests and deacons who will ask any question I may ask and if they don’t know the answer they will find it for me…NOT one of them…you don’t need to know this.
They wanted me to ask questions and question the Faith so I would know that the Catholic Church was the way I wanted to join to be in communion with God…you tell me that the LDS church does this…you can’t because it does…and it never has…
stormy
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SirThomasMore
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SirThomasMore
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PaulDupre
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Not exactly. The difference is that the Index prohibited the distribution and sale of books that taught ERROR in faith and morals, while Packer and other LDS leaders discourage the writing and reading of TRUTH if it is such that it may disrupt the faith of Mormons.
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Pahoran
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Not quite.
When we read the entire statement, we find that Elder Packer was advising teachers of religion classes to stick to what is relevant, and those writing about Church history to be sure to include all relevant facts and not pick out merely titillating factoids.
Good advice, don’t you think?
Regards,
Pahoran
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Pahoran
Guest
Wrong again. Here it is, this time with logic instead of mere mockery:
Premise 1: All official doctrinal positions of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are written down in authoritative doctrinal texts.
Premise 2: The Church has never written down how to go grocery shopping.
Conclusion: How to go grocery shopping is not a question upon which the Church has a doctrinal position.
Thus, your analogy supports my position, and not yours.
My comment is accurate. Furthermore, it is the only fair and reasonable basis upon which people of different faith traditions can have any reasonable dialogue.
But you never make personal swipes, right?
Just because it does not follow does not mean that I cannot follow it. I can; it doesn’t.
Your argument was: “The problem Mormons have is that when they claim their ‘prophets’ speak face-to-face with God, you expect them to know the truth.”
We do not claim that our prophets (no scare quotes necessary) “speak face-to-face with God” on any regular or routine basis; such experiences are understood to be rare and important.
Nor do we claim that, having had such an experience, the prophet is henceforth immune from error. The revelatory experience imparts specific information about a specific subject, not an information dump encompassing All Truth for All Time.
Thus, your conclusion does not follow.
IOW, you cannot support your assertion.
Which is hardly surprising, since President Kimball made no such claim.
Regards,
Pahoran
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SirThomasMore
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SirThomasMore
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“In the heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives, which were given to him …while yet in his mortal state.” Orson Pratt (Apostle), The Seer, p. 37.
Wow.
Wow.
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Javl
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Adding my :twocents: worth, I have read the Book of Mormon, and much other LDS literature. In my “dialoging” with members of the LDS I have also learned much. Trying to be as open minded as possible, I do respect and admire the members of the LDS for their zeal and defense of their church, but, as much and as best that I try, I find an awful lot of the doctrines and tenets of the LDS very hard and difficult to accept. They are too far out in left field ( and probably out of the ball park ).
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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