To set the Record straight Catholics do not worship Mary!

[CentralFLJames]

James I will pray for you.

Should I take this in the sense of “praying for one another” or euphemistically as declaring me an enemy (e.g. as in “Praying for one’s enemies”)?

In either case I appreciate that but you also need to know that God does not hear the prayers of an unrepentant sinner. You must be in a state of grace (no mortal sin) for your prayers to have been heard. So if you have committed any grave sin (fornication, adultery, heresy against The Church, masturbation, premarital sex, slander, abortion etc.) since you were baptised and have not confessed it to an apostolic authority (priest or bishop) it is dubious at best that you are in a state of grace. So for the time being you might first try to start off with a prayer of repentance (try Psalm 51 - The Miserere) then pray for me.

Just thought I’d save you some time.

But if you really want to experience the power of prayer like the saints did you need to get started right away with RCIA and become Catholic. Then you can receive the sacraments of reconciliation (and Eucharist) and be assured that your sins are forgiven and your prayers are actually heard. And then if you want to really become a prayer warrior ask Mary to pray with you since “her soul magnifies the Lord” (Luke 1:46) and will add an extra zing to your prayers that God will smile on.



James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Careful, he might start worshipping you.

[sign][SIGN][/SIGN]
With a target rich environment such as this charity becomes a suffrage[/sign]

James

 

[Tantum_ergo]

My opinion that there is no difference holds no less wieght than yours that there is a difference.

You really didn’t get the point, did you?

Let’s try again.

There are not two ‘equal opinions’ here, yours and mine, to which ‘equal’ weight is given.

You see, the ‘opinions’ are absolutely, totally contradictory. Therefore, one is true and the other is false. You simply cannot get around this fundamental point here.

If an apple is on a table and one person says, "look at the apple’ and another, "look at the orange’, the person who says, ‘look at the orange’ is wrong, plain and simple, and the person who says, "look at the apple’ is right.

So when you say flat out "there is no distinction’ and I say,“Yes there is” it doesn’t matter that you call the statements only opinions on the issue–the issue is either true or false–nothing in between.

Therefore one of us is right and one is wrong.

The evidence that I am right rests on the fact that I (among other Catholics) actually do know the truth of this, because we do differentiate between worship and veneration. Thus we have first-hand, primary source, EXPERIENTIAL knowledge. You do not. You only have opinion, therefore you are trying to reduce this to ‘opinion only.’ ***

You do not venerate, and therefore all you have is the opinion that since you don’t do it, it isn’t done, therefore we who do are lying, mistaken or both. But since you don’t see our hearts, you have absolutely no right to prejudge simply because you lack the capacity to differentiate yourself.

***the continual attempt to paint things as X only is one of the hallmarks of the narrowness of those who see everything (including God) in that limited and man-made light.

 

[Always_For_Him]

We say that is a distinction without a difference.

Then you are wrong in saying that. Protestant churches today are so far removed from the original Church, that you don’t can’t possibly see the difference. Martin Luther’s dying prayers were to Mary. The veneration of Mary was brought through the Reformation. Just because your Church (not only yours) chooses to teach contrary to that, doesn’t make it wrong. Man will lead you astray, and he has.

 

[Hisalone]

Then you are wrong in saying that. Protestant churches today are so far removed from the original Church, that you don’t can’t possibly see the difference. Martin Luther’s dying prayers were to Mary. The veneration of Mary was brought through the Reformation. Just because your Church (not only yours) chooses to teach contrary to that, doesn’t make it wrong. Man will lead you astray, and he has.

But God will not!
Sola Deo Gloria

 

[Always_For_Him]

It is obvious that you don’t have a clue what bind and loose in Scripture actually means

I understand your need to take what I say and twist it into something that is not what I was trying to say, but, just to clarify, I was talking about authority.

Prove it

The Catholic Church has ALREADY proven it is Christ’s Church. Besides that, it is all a matter of historical record. Your church doesn’t teach that to you. It is really up to you to prove otherwise.

Thats the funniest thing I’ve heard yet and the dumbest.

It may be funny and dumb to you, but that just shows that you actually believe that YOU have the authority to self-interpret NT writings. When it warns AGAINST doing that. I guess you just ignore that part of Scripture.

Here we go again with the Catholic church writing Scripture. Tell this to Eastern Orthodox Christians and see how well that sits with them. It’s pure baloney.

You REALLY don’t know what you are talking about do you? Just throwing something like that out there to make your point shows just how wrong you are. If they taught what you are espousing, you might have a leg to stand on. But, as it stands, the Eastern Orthodox agree with what we are trying to teach you.

 

[Always_For_Him]

But God will not!
Sola Deo Gloria

The Sola Scriptura that you are following is MAN. You are not following God, you are following teachings of man. If you were following God, you would be in unity with His Church.

 

[Hisalone]

The Sola Scriptura that you are following is MAN. You are not following God, you are following teachings of man. If you were following God, you would be in unity with His Church.

Me and those like me are firmly in Body of Christ.
Thus we are in union and are part of Gods assembly.You may attempt to exclude us from your little private club however you can not sxlude us from Christs body.

 

[Napsack]

I understand your need to take what I say and twist it into something that is not what I was trying to say, but, just to clarify, I was talking about authority.

The Catholic Church has ALREADY proven it is Christ’s Church. Besides that, it is all a matter of historical record. Your church doesn’t teach that to you. It is really up to you to prove otherwise.

It may be funny and dumb to you, but that just shows that you actually believe that YOU have the authority to self-interpret NT writings. When it warns AGAINST doing that. I guess you just ignore that part of Scripture.

You REALLY don’t know what you are talking about do you? Just throwing something like that out there to make your point shows just how wrong you are. If they taught what you are espousing, you might have a leg to stand on. But, as it stands, the Eastern Orthodox agree with what we are trying to teach you.

If they truly agree as you just stated, then why are they not in communion with you?

 

[Always_For_Him]

Me and those like me are firmly in Body of Christ.
Thus we are in union and are part of Gods assembly.You may attempt to exclude us from your little private club however you can not sxlude us from Christs body.

We don’t have a “club”. The Catholic Church welcomes everyone. What I am excluding is your errant beliefs/teachings. If they are not Apostolic, they are man-made. Yours are man-made beliefs that didn’t exist before the Reformation.

 

[Napsack]

Me and those like me are firmly in Body of Christ.
Thus we are in union and are part of Gods assembly.You may attempt to exclude us from your little private club however you can not sxlude us from Christs body.

Amen.

 

[Napsack]

The Sola Scriptura that you are following is MAN. You are not following God, you are following teachings of man. If you were following God, you would be in unity with His Church.

Why is it that Catholics can only try and cover their (you know whats) when faced with declaring something contrary to Scripture by accusing the originator of believing in Sola Scriptura? This is really gettng to be stale and smelly garbage.

 

[Always_For_Him]

If they truly agree as you just stated, then why are they not in communion with you?

That has been explained already. There are also many threads that you can find that can explain it much better than I can. I know that THEY chose to separate themselves for several reasons, one being the Pope. They separated from Christ’s Church, but they venerate/honor Mary. So, what is your point exactly?

 

[Napsack]

Then you are wrong in saying that. Protestant churches today are so far removed from the original Church, that you don’t can’t possibly see the difference. Martin Luther’s dying prayers were to Mary. The veneration of Mary was brought through the Reformation. Just because your Church (not only yours) chooses to teach contrary to that, doesn’t make it wrong. Man will lead you astray, and he has.

WHAT??? Luther’s final prayers were to Mary??

 

[Napsack]

That has been explained already. There are also many threads that you can find that can explain it much better than I can. I know that THEY chose to separate themselves for several reasons, one being the Pope. They separated from Christ’s Church, but they venerate/honor Mary. So, what is your point exactly?

Oh no, they do not venerate Mary in the same capacity or fervor that you do and its obvious and evident by what they do not profess about Mary that Catholics do.

The Eastern Orthodox church won’t recognize the Eucharist in the Catholic church as being valid and will not allow Catholics to receive at their church. Same goes for other churches such as WELS Lutherans. They will not allow Catholics to receive either.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I checked out this Wiki article and note the numbers–they do give footnotes for these. . .

Interesting, aren’t they, Nap and Hisalone?

Luther states in his Magnificat, that one should call on Mary, so God would give and do, through her will, what we ask. But, he adds, it is God’s work alone.[5] Some interpret his Magnificat as a personal supplication to Mary, but not as a prayerful request for mediation. An important indicator of Luther’s views on the veneration of Mary are not only his writings but also approved practices of Lutherans during his life-time. The singing of the Magnificat in Latin was maintained in many German Lutheran communities. The Church Order (Kirchenordnung) of Brandenburg, Bugenhagen Braunschweig and other cities and districts decreed by the royal heads of the Lutheran Church, maintained three Marian feast days, to be observed as public holidays.[5] It is known that Martin Luther approved of this. He also approved of keeping Marian paintings and statues in the Churches.[12]

 

[Tantum_ergo]

There you go, boys and girls --one of the very first reformers believed that one could go to Mary in prayer and that (just as Catholics believe) God could answer through Mary, His being the grace but she the conduit.

And Luther also believed that Mary was ever Virgin.

And --worse and worse– he didn’t have any problems with statues, or Marian feast days.

Oh my oh my oh my.

It looks as though one of the leading Protestant lights, one of the original founders, had absolutely no problem whatsoever understanding the difference between veneration of a saint and worship of God.

 

[Always_For_Him]

Why is it that Catholics can only try and cover their (you know whats) when faced with declaring something contrary to Scripture by accusing the originator of believing in Sola Scriptura? This is really gettng to be stale and smelly garbage.

You just can’t conceive that you are following teachings of man, not Apostolic teaching.

 

[Always_For_Him]

WHAT??? Luther’s final prayers were to Mary??

You didn’t know that did ya?! There is so much you don’t know because your church hasn’t taught it to you. Just because you don’t know it, or your church doesn’t teach it, doesn’t mean that what we are saying isn’t true or that the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ founded!

 

[Napsack]

You didn’t know that did ya?! There is so much you don’t know because your church hasn’t taught it to you. Just because you don’t know it, or your church doesn’t teach it, doesn’t mean that what we are saying isn’t true or that the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ founded!

Where did you come up with that? I’m sure it came from one of the many Catholic biased books or one of the raving converts, but which one?