To set the Record straight Catholics do not worship Mary!

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James you are just flat out wrong…once again.
Scriptures and the word of God are easily found in the bible which are synonimus with bible.
Prove it - answer my questions rather than dodging them like you always do. Give chapter and verse where the bible tells us what books belong in the bible; and where it claims to be inspired; and where it states that it is the entire word of God.

Hint - it doesn’t and you know it

James
 
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
Code:
 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
44
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45
Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
Veneration yes worship no.
 
No, I leave that up to the Holy Spirit, not the magisterium that wishes for everyone to believe that they have a God given right to be everyone’s authority.
“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.”
John 14, 16-18


Jesus sent the Holy Spirit so that his universal Church would be one in a unity of faith. A divided and splintered Protestantism does not even closely reflect the will of God. The early Protestant reformers and subsequent religious leaders and church founders have scattered Christ’s sheep by presuming to invest themselves with the apostolic teaching authority reserved for the Apostles and their valid successors who comprise the episcopacy of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. Martin Luther & Co. each have believed that he or she has been led by the Spirit in their private interpretation of the Scriptures, “leaving it up to Him”, although they have differed in essential matters of faith. Jesus founded his Church on Peter and the Apostles, who appointed their own successors by “the laying on of hands” ad finitum, so that the fullness of God’s single revelation should be mediated to the entire world and be commonly accepted by everyone.

“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.”
John 17, 20-21


Protestantism thwarts God’s plan with all the roiling bickering going on in this religious movement among the countless denominations which hold a claim on the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church will continue to be one in a unity of faith because it is governed by the Apostolic teaching authority which was founded by Christ and is guided by the promised Paraclete until the end of this age. In the wake of heresies in Christendom from the beginning the Sacred Universal Magisterium has defined as a revealed divine truth our Trinitarian, Christological, and Marian doctrines. So it is not a matter for us as private individuals to pick and choose what we prefer to believe by gleaning the Scriptures for ourselves.

“The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name – he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.”
John 14, 26

“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.”
John 16, 12-13


Here Jesus is directly addressing his apostles keeping in mind those who shall validly succeed them in the episcopacy of his Church until he returns in glory. What the Spirit hears is “spoken” to the Apostolic teaching authority of the Church through the medium of Apostolic Tradition which produced the written word of Scripture. Thus Scripture must be interpreted in light of Apostolic Tradition and cannot be fully understood outside it. The fullness of divine truth deposited in the written word gradually comes to light as the Church grows in an understanding of faith by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in time through the medium of Sacred Tradition that is built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets before them (Eph 2, 20).

“And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
Matthew 28, 20


Jesus did not abandon his Church with the start of the Protestant Reformation in 1519 under Martin Luther. The history of Protestantism proves otherwise. The Catholic monk had opened Pandora’s box, or more precisely the gate to the abyss, with a ‘key’ other than the one that Christ handed on to Peter (Rev 9:1).

“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.”
*Matthew 12, 30 *

“The majority of us have drifted away from the proper attitude of her, which Martin Luther had indicated to us on the basis of Holy Scripture…partially due to the rise of Rationalism which has lost the sense of the sacred [and of mystery]. In Rationalism man sought to comprehend everything, and that which he could not comprehend he rejected. Because Rationalism accepted that which could be explained rationally, Church festivals in honour of Mary and everything else reminiscient of her were done away with in the Protestant Church [about a century after the Reformation]. All biblical relationship to the Mother of God was lost, and we are all still suffering from this heritage.”
Lutheran scholar, Basilea Schlink


What Jesus says is true: the world cannot accept the Spirit of truth. He is not heard outside the “household of God”. :nope:

PAX :harp:
 
So, are you arguing the case that John just made up all that Queen of Heaven imagery that he put in his Book of Revelation to dishonor Mary or shall we assume he just wrote that book to scare Protestants into buying all those “rapture” and “don’t get left behind” paperbacks as supplements to the bible? 😃

So tell us, why is it when Catholics call Mary Queen of Heaven in pray it is considered Worship but when John honors His Mother by taking care of her for her as the Lord commanded and then writes a substantial part of scripture to make it clear that Mary is Queen of Heaven that His words are not even considered veneration?

Your conspicuous double standard tells much.

James
James the bible uses Queen of heaven 5 times.
Could you tell me which times it was refering to Mary?
Jer 7:18 -
"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and {they} pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.

Jer 44:17 -
"But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for {then} we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.

Jer 44:18 -
“But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have met our end by the sword and by famine.”

Jer 44:19 -
“And,” {said the women,} “when we were burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were pouring out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands that we made for her {sacrificial} cakes in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

Jer 44:25 -
thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, as follows: ‘As for you and your wives, you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled {it} with your hands, saying, “We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” Go ahead and confirm your vows, and certainly perform your vows!’
 
Prove it - answer my questions rather than dodging them like you always do. Give chapter and verse where the bible tells us what books belong in the bible; and where it claims to be inspired; and where it states that it is the entire word of God.

Hint - it doesn’t and you know it

James
Mt 21:42 - Show Context
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, `THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’?

Mt 22:29 - Show Context
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Mt 26:54 - Show Context
“How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?”

Mt 26:56 - Show Context
“But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets.” Then all the disciples left Him and fled.

Mr 12:24 - Show Context
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?

Mr 14:49 - Show Context
“Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures.”

Lu 24:27 - Show Context
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Lu 24:32 - Show Context
They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?”

Lu 24:45 - Show Context
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Joh 5:39 - Show Context
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

Ac 17:2 - Show Context
And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Ac 17:11 - Show Context
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Ac 18:24 - Show Context
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.

Ac 18:28 - Show Context
for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

Ro 1:2 - Show Context
which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

Ro 15:4 - Show Context
For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Ro 16:26 - Show Context
but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

1Co 15:3 - Show Context
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1Co 15:4 - Show Context
and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

2Pe 3:16 - Show Context
as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
Both the doctrine of the trinity AND the Marian doctrines are contained IMPLICITLY in Scripture.

Why don’t you show us the explicit Scripture that proclaims: God is Three Divine Persons in ONE God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

You won’t be able to. It doesn’t exist. The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine that has developed. It developed from the implicit Scriptures that support it while never outright stating it as such in 21st century (or even 4th century) terms. It also developed from the ‘second leg’ --that is, Sacred Tradition, the oral teaching of the apostles.

The Marian doctrines are implicit too. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is found in Luke 2 among others. The doctrine of the Assumption is touched on briefly and tangentially in Scripture but is given greater treatment in the oral teaching of the apostles as well as in non-inerrant writings. One must remember that just because texts like the Didache and the Protoevangelium were not judged to be Sacred Scripture did not make the texts themselves WRONG. Like any other ‘non-God-breathed’ writings, if truth is written in them it remains truth. One does not have to claim inerrancy to be able to state any given truth. And I’m sure our Orthodox friends who call it the Dormition and trace it to their oral teachings as well would agree it is most certainly of apostolic origin.
They are not in the Canon for a very good reason. God didn’t wasn’t them in. And Scriture does not demand those Marian doctrines. Men do, and they detract and distract. The scriptures do, however demand the doctrine of the Trinity.
Peace
 
Mt 21:42 - Show Context
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, `THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’?

Mt 22:29 - Show Context;Mt 26:54 - Show Context
Mt 26:56 - Show Context; Mr 12:24 - Show Context
Mr 14:49 - Show Context;Lu 24:27 - Show Context.
Lu 24:32 - Show Context;Lu 24:45 - Show Context
Joh 5:39 - Show Context; Ac 17:2 - Show Context
Ac 17:11 - Show Context; Ac 18:24 - Show Context
Ac 18:28 - Show Context;Ro 1:2 - Show Context
Ro 15:4 - Show Context; Ro 16:26 - Show Context
1Co 15:3 - Show Context;1Co 15:4 - Show Context
2Pe 3:16 - Show Context
PLEASE - stop abusing the word of God by spamming us with cut-and-paste of any verse in scripture that contains the word scripture in it. Any child can run a search engine on the dozens of Internet bible database and spit out keyword results. But do you have ANY clue at all what you are talking about? Do you even have a clue that NONE of the apostles knew anything they said or wrote would become New Testament Scripture??? HELLO - there WAS NO BIBLE FOR 400 years AFTER the apostles spoke. Most of what is in the NT bible is not even written by an apostle - it was written from oral accounts of what their disciples heard and later wrote down. SO NONE OF THOSE VERSES YOU MENTION WAS “SCRIPTURE” AT THE TIME IT WAS SPOKEN. THEY WERE REFERRING TO OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE. Good gracious is this what your Protestant preacher is teaching you or is this your own private interpretation???

And none of this answers a single question I asked you.

You have just demonstrated that you don’t even have a newbie level understanding of scripture. So how is it you come as a rank novice of scripture into a Catholic forum with veterans who know the authentic apostolic teaching and want to teach us what is now Catholic canon scripture??

Utter blind arrogance…

You are in grave need of a basic church and bible history lesson.

Start here: Sola Scriptura is Self Refuted by Scripture

James
 
Let Us make man in Our own image.

Who was speaking?
According to the Mormons, probably any number of gods, including God!

The JWs also have an implicit explanation for that passage.

Since you discount the Catholic theology that proclaimed it was ‘One Person’ speaking, and brought you The Trinity, you have no reason to accept “our” interpretation!

:cool:
 
PLEASE - stop abusing the word of God by spamming us with cut-and-paste of any verse in scripture that contains the word scripture in it. Any child can run a search engine on the dozens of Internet bible database and spit out keyword results. But do you have ANY clue at all what you are talking about? Do you even have a clue that NONE of the apostles knew anything they said or wrote would become New Testament Scripture??? HELLO - there WAS NO BIBLE FOR 400 years AFTER the apostles spoke. Most of what is in the NT bible is not even written by an apostle - it was written from oral accounts of what their disciples heard and later wrote down. SO NONE OF THOSE VERSES YOU MENTION WAS “SCRIPTURE” AT THE TIME IT WAS SPOKEN. THEY WERE REFERRING TO OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE. Good gracious is this what your Protestant preacher is teaching you or is this your own private interpretation???

And none of this answers a single question I asked you.

You have just demonstrated that you don’t even have a newbie level understanding of scripture. So how is it you come as a rank novice of scripture into a Catholic forum with veterans who know the authentic apostolic teaching and want to teach us what is now Catholic canon scripture??

Utter blind arrogance…

You are in grave need of a basic church and bible history lesson.

Start here: Sola Scriptura is Self Refuted by Scripture

James
He is showing you truth pure and simple and you don’t want to acknowledge it because it contradicts what your magisterium commands its faithful to believe. That’s YOUR problem, not the people of God.
 
No you cannot. There is not one place in the Bible where the word Trinity is explicitly used or stated.

You can try all you want, but unless you write your own version of the “bible”…you will have almost as much success you would if you were to try and stop a hurricane…

Now, I realize that you are somewhat afraid of the truth, but if you go to this link…you will find the truth, and an explanation that you can ponder, and then grasp…🙂

drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm

Make sure you read the words in reddish brown…it is the explanation of the scripture itself.

Have fun!!🙂
This is your feeble and pointless argument, not mine. The trinity and its reality can be shown Biblically many many times over and I don’t care whether its named specifically or not. The Roman church on the other hand cannot, not by name but also not by practice and not by presidence. The Roman Catholic church is NOT the Church Christ founded. The Church Christ founded is not a denomination and it does not contradict the Word of God.
 
Let Us make man in Our own image.

Who was speaking?
Let’s be honest - Hisalone did not discern the “Trinity” the first time you read your bible. You heard it from someone elese - your preacher or a friend. And they in turn did not discern it in their bibles - they got it from some handed down traditional interpretation. Trace the lineage back far enough and you will find out that what you understand and believe about the Trinity came from The Catholic Church and our teaching tradition. If in doubt read the early church fathers:
Early Catholic Church Fathers Teaching on Trinity:
Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
“O Lord God almighty…I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever” (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
“For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water” (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever” (n. 7; PG 5.988).
“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
“The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: …one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,’ and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all…’” (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation…[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.
“If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority…There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father” (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
“For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)
“Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification…” (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).
All you are doing is parroting back Catholic Apostilic Teaching and reinforcing what we have been telling you – there is no private interpretation of scripture. The bible even tells you this:

2 Peter 1:20
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…”
😉

James
 
Both the doctrine of the trinity AND the Marian doctrines are contained IMPLICITLY in Scripture.

Why don’t you show us the explicit Scripture that proclaims: God is Three Divine Persons in ONE God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

You won’t be able to. It doesn’t exist. The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine that has developed. It developed from the implicit Scriptures that support it while never outright stating it as such in 21st century (or even 4th century) terms. It also developed from the ‘second leg’ --that is, Sacred Tradition, the oral teaching of the apostles.

The Marian doctrines are implicit too. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is found in Luke 2 among others
Wrong. This is your twisting of Scripture. It is only mental gymnastics…
 
This is your feeble and pointless argument, not mine. The trinity and its reality can be shown Biblically many many times over and I don’t care whether its named specifically or not. The Roman church on the other hand cannot, not by name but also not by practice and not by presidence. The Roman Catholic church is NOT the Church Christ founded. The Church Christ founded is not a denomination and it does not contradict the Word of God.
You are just parroting the same contempt for apostolic authority that many heretics that have come and gone over the last 2000 years have demonstrated. They are before their final eternal fate now.

You have no proof for what you claim. You can invent any “feel good” belief you like but you know in your heart that your bible-church did not come into existence until at most 500 years ago. You are just parroting the same neo-Christian lies and errors of men like Luther, John Wesley et-al. Judge by the fruits of these men - 10’s of thousands of factions, and divisions and denominations all with contempt for each other’s teachings and having only one thing in common - not a demonstrated love of Christ but a very demonstrated contempt for the Catholic Church.

Yet Christ made it very clear that He can not be seperated from His Church - the apostolic Catholic Church.

*Act 9:3-5
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. *

If you want the evidence of the dozens of scripture references that tell us that the Biblical Church is Catholic then read the following link. But if you just want to remain in league and communion with those who hold the contempt of Catholics at the same level of worship and attention you say you give God then stay on in your ignorance and your contempt - since your devotion to contempt of the Catholic Church and propagation of lies and calumny proves that you do not worship God alone.

The Biblical Church is Catholic:
scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html

James
 
This is your feeble and pointless argument, not mine. The trinity and its reality can be shown Biblically many many times over and I don’t care whether its named specifically or not. The Roman church on the other hand cannot, not by name but also not by practice and not by presidence. The Roman Catholic church is NOT the Church Christ founded…
Can you find the word ‘protestant’ in The Book?
The Church Christ founded is not a denomination and it does not contradict the Word of God. …
Correct!

What are we to make of the protestant denominations then? All the 30,000plus of them, or just some of them?

:cool:
 
Yet it doesnt matter if it teaches that which the apostles taught?
The Gospels implicitly contain what the Apostles believed and taught orally.
  1. Mary is the Mother of God and Spouse of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 2, 10-11; Luke 1, 35; 43; John 1, 1,14; Galatians 4, 4

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and of spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 110)

  1. Mary is ever-Virgin.
Luke 1, 34, 38 (cf. Songs 4, 12)

“The Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her.”
Justin Martyr (A.D. 155)

  1. Mary is the sinless New Eve and pure Ark of the new Covenant.
Luke 1, 28, 38, 43-44 (cf. 2 Sam 6:9), 45; 11, 28*

“Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience [sin] was loosed by the obedience [sinlessness] of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)

For whereas the Word of God was without flesh, He took upon Himself the holy flesh by the Holy Virgin, and prepared a robe which He wove for Himself."
Hyppolytus (A.D. 200)

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.”
Origen (A.D. 244)

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.”
Ambrose (A.D. 388)

  1. The sinless Virgin Mary and pure Mother of our Lord was taken up body and soul into heaven.
  • Luke 1, 28; 46-49 (cf. Isa 61:10); 1 Corinthians 15, 22-23; Revelation 11, 19; 12, 1*
“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Saviour and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibilty of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.”
Modestus of Jerusalem (ante A.D. 634)

“It was fitting…that the most holy body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory…should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.”
Theoteknos of Livias (ante A.D. 650)

  1. Mary, the new Eve and our spiritual mother, is the Mother of the Church.
John 2, 5; 19, 26-27; Revelation 12, 17 (cf. Gen 3:15)

“I love to call her [Mary] the Church. This mother, when alone, had not milk, because when alone she was not a ‘woman’. But she is once virgin and mother – pure as a virgin and loving as a mother. And calling her children to her, she nurses them with holy milk, viz., with the Word for childhood.”
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 202)

  1. Mary is Queen of Heaven and the Advocata of the people of God.
Luke 1, 28, 31-33; 2, 35; Matthew 27, 29; John 2, 3-5, 7; (cf. 1 Kgs 2: 17-20; Neh 2:6; Ps 45:9)

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory.”
Theodotus of Ancrya (ante A.D. 446)

“With the Mediator you are the Mediatrix of the entire world.”
Ephraem (A.D. 373)

“For she who brought forth the source of mercy, Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, receiving from him all things, will and through him, grant the wishes of all.”
Paul the Deacon (ante A.D. 799)


PAX :harp:
 
PLEASE - stop abusing the word of God by spamming us with cut-and-paste of any verse in scripture that contains the word scripture in it. Any child can run a search engine on the dozens of Internet bible database and spit out keyword results. But do you have ANY clue at all what you are talking about? Do you even have a clue that NONE of the apostles knew anything they said or wrote would become New Testament Scripture??? HELLO - there WAS NO BIBLE FOR 400 years AFTER the apostles spoke. Most of what is in the NT bible is not even written by an apostle - it was written from oral accounts of what their disciples heard and later wrote down. SO NONE OF THOSE VERSES YOU MENTION WAS “SCRIPTURE” AT THE TIME IT WAS SPOKEN. THEY WERE REFERRING TO OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE. Good gracious is this what your Protestant preacher is teaching you or is this your own private interpretation???

And none of this answers a single question I asked you.

You have just demonstrated that you don’t even have a newbie level understanding of scripture. So how is it you come as a rank novice of scripture into a Catholic forum with veterans who know the authentic apostolic teaching and want to teach us what is now Catholic canon scripture??

Utter blind arrogance…

You are in grave need of a basic church and bible history lesson.

Start here: Sola Scriptura is Self Refuted by Scripture

James
I will address what you say here and then will ignore you from now on. James you cannot have a conversation without being abusive.
Scripture is the bible.
The bible is scripture.
Why does Peter in 2 Peter give Pauls letters the wieght of scripture?
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Matthew, Mark John, Peter James and Jude were all wrttten by the apostles despite what modern liberal biblical critics may say.
 
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