To set the Record straight Catholics do not worship Mary!

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Good_Fella said:
The Gospels implicitly contain what the Apostles believed and taught orally.
  1. Mary is the Mother of God and Spouse of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 2, 10-11; Luke 1, 43; John 1, 1,14; Galatians 4, 4

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and of spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 110)
  1. Mary is ever-Virgin.
Luke 1, 34, 38 (cf. Songs 4, 12)

“The Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her.”
Justin Martyr (A.D. 155)
  1. Mary is the sinless New Eve and pure Ark of the new Covenant.
Luke 1, 28, 38, 43 (cf. 2 Sam 6:9), 45; 11, 28*

“Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience [sin] was loosed by the obedience [sinlessness] of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)

For whereas the Word of God was without flesh, He took upon Himself the holy flesh by the Holy Virgin, and prepared a robe which He wove for Himself."
Hyppolytus (A.D. 200)

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.”
Origen (A.D. 244)

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.”
Ambrose (A.D. 388)
  1. The sinless Virgin Mary and pure Mother of our Lord was taken up body and soul into heaven.
  • Luke 1, 28; 46-49 (cf. Isa 61:10); 1 Corinthians 15, 22-23; Revelation 11, 19; 12, 1*
“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Saviour and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibilty of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.”
Modestus of Jerusalem (ante A.D. 634)

“It was fitting…that the most holy body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory…should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.”
Theoteknos of Livias (ante A.D. 650)
  1. Mary, the new Eve and our spiritual mother, is the Mother of the Church.
John 2, 5; 19, 26-27; Revelation 12, 17 (cf. Gen 3:15)

“I love to call her [Mary] the Church. This mother, when alone, had not milk, because when alone she was not a ‘woman’. But she is once virgin and mother – pure as a virgin and loving as a mother. And calling her children to her, she nurses them with holy milk, viz., with the Word for childhood.”
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 202)
  1. Mary is Queen of Heaven and the Advocata of the people of God.
Luke 1, 28, 31-33; 2, 35; Matthew 27, 29; John 2, 3-5, 7; (cf. 1 Kgs 2: 17-20; Neh 2:6; Ps 45:9)

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory.”
Theodotus of Ancrya (ante A.D. 446)

“With the Mediator you are the Mediatrix of the entire world.”
Ephraem (A.D. 373)

“For she who brought forth the source of mercy, Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, receiving from him all things, will and through him, grant the wishes of all.”
Paul the Deacon (ante A.D. 799)

PAX :harp:
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Why do you not quote any of the apostles?
Is it because they taught Christ and not Mary?
 
Devotion to Mary is a precious pearl. It should be treated as such. Devotion to Mary is a very rare seed of the most treasured spice, or radiant flower. It can only be planted in very fertile soil.

Treasure it and don’t tell of it to those who will not appreciate its value.
 
Hisalone said:
James the bible uses Queen of heaven 5 times.
Could you tell me which times it was refering to Mary?
Jer 7:18 - Jer 44:17 - Jer 44:18 - Jer 44:19 -
Jer 44:25 ’
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There you go again - doing kiddie apologetics by searching for English key words in an Internet based bible search engine and cutting and pasting.

What you fail to understand that Mary is not just Queen of Heaven but also MOTHER of The KING. That makes her Queen Mother in the Jewish traditions. So your search terms are incompetently constructed. There are other key terms too that you missed - but rather than run through them all let me just point you to the correct verses that all give credence to The Catholic Teaching. Ultimately your problem though is in failing to recognize ecclesial authority. If The Church had not exercised its authority to develop its scriptural cannon there would be no bible - period. Ecclesial Authority, the same authority you reject is what delivered to you The Catholic Bible (less the tithe Luther stripped out of it on the altar of secularism before he turned the church over to the monarch and revised the bible). How is it that you can respect the Catholic Bible but reject the hand that gives it to you?

See the following link for all the references in the bible we know directly pertain to Mary - there are hundreds of them. But also see the early Church father writings.

scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

BTW - Jesus is not going to be too happy with you trying to paint his Mother as a false god unworthy of worship in the OT verses you selected. I can’t imagine the wrath you are calling down on yourself to tell the truth. I am not kidding - I would do so serious repenting right now…
Biblical Progression for Mary as Queen of Heaven:
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother. (note: If Jesus is King of the Jews then Mary is Queen Mother in the traditional Jewish sense).

Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

John 2:3 - this is a very significant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one family through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother’s request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water. This intercession is identical to the role of David’s Queen Mother in the OT as well as in Bathsheba.

Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
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More here: ewtn.com/expert/answers/mother.htm

Do you read any of this information we are giving you?

James
 
Hisalone said:
I will address what you say here and then will ignore you from now on. James you cannot have a conversation without being abusive.
Scripture is the bible.
The bible is scripture.
Why does Peter in 2 Peter give Pauls letters the wieght of scripture?
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Matthew, Mark John, Peter James and Jude were all wrttten by the apostles despite what modern liberal biblical critics may say.
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I expect you to go into hiding after making absurd comments like this. **Peter was in no way declaring Paul’s letter scripture! **That is an utter lie. Peter was talking about OLD TESTAMENT scriptures that Paul was given an exegesis of. There was no New Testament scripture recognized by any apostle. It is only after they have all died and passed on that The Catholic Church DECLARES the NT scripture. The NT can essentially be called “The Catholic Testament” since it is the cannon of the Catholic Church.

Get your own cannon and quit hijacking and twisting our Catholic Cannon! We have had this for 2,000 years. We don’t need false preachers teaching new gospels and telling us what it means - we wrote it and assembled it.

If Protestants want to strip out more of the gospel (like Luther tried to do by taking out the Epistle of James) then go write your own cannon - and call it the New Protestant Testament. Leave our’s alone and stop mangling the word of God.

Get some context.

James
 
Hisalone said:
Why do you not quote any of the apostles?
Is it because they taught Christ and not Mary?
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I have cited Matthew, Luke, and John and have quoted some Church Fathers who have ‘validly’ succeeded the apostles. Please examine and reflect upon the scriptural passages together with the writings of the Fathers before responding in such an impetuous manner. I hope you’ll overcome your spiritual blindness and finally see that the evangelists “taught” Mary. The Gospels reflect the living Tradition of the ‘one’ universal Church of Christ that has existed since Pentecost and 1800 years before the rise of Protestant Fundamentalism in the “New World”.

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
2 Thessalonians 2, 15

And what you ‘heard’ from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.
*2 Timothy 2, 2 *

We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us (the bishops) while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
1 John 4, 6

“For when, on the tyrant’s death, he (the Apostle John) returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos, he went away, being invited, to the contiguous territories of the nations, here to appoint bishops, there to set in order whole Churches, there to ordain such as were marked out by the Spirit.”
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 210)
*
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles…Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop… Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”*
*Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John (A.D. 110) *

:sleep:
 
Hisalone said:
Matthew, Mark John, Peter James and Jude were all wrttten by the apostles despite what modern liberal biblical critics may say.
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This is not technically true.

It’s not important to the discussion at hand but I want you to prove this claim using your own sola-scriptura standard. Where in the bible manuscripts does any apostles say “these are my words” in his native language and handwriting and where is their signature attesting to it? The answer is no where - we don’t even have original manuscripts penned in their own hand or language. Peter was a fisherman he was no scribe - I doubt he could even write his own name in Greek. He spoke Aramaic - not the Greek that was in the COPIES of the manuscripts we have today. Were Peter’s words words copied by a scribe? Yes.

The Catholic Church tells you everything you believe about the authenticity of the NT. You have accepted that in faith so why can’t you accept what the Catholic Church teaches you about what it all means? Pride or stubbornness?

Again - all you offer is personal opinion and private interpretation - both of which contradict your own standard of “by scripture alone”.

Why is it that every Protestant I have ever met thinks they are infallable in their read of scripture but thinks the 2,000 year old Church that can trace its apostolic succession all the way back to the original apostles is the only one that is fallable? 🤷

James
 
Hisalone said:
Let Us make man in Our own image.

Who was speaking?
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I don’t see the word Trinity there. The argument is not if Trinity is indicated in the text but if the word itself is used. That is the challenge to you. You and I both know that the word itself is not used. Just admit it.
 
Napsack said:
This is your feeble and pointless argument, not mine. The trinity and its reality can be shown Biblically many many times over and I don’t care whether its named specifically or not. The Roman church on the other hand cannot, not by name but also not by practice and not by presidence. The Roman Catholic church is NOT the Church Christ founded. The Church Christ founded is not a denomination and it does not contradict the Word of God.
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History proves you wrong.
 
ufamtobie said:
Protestants,

The Truth is that nowhere in Catholic literature or in Catholic History since Pentacost to this day will you ever find a document which directs Catholics to WORSHIP Mary. You will, however, find many documents which say we VENERATE her.

Protestants the definition of WORSHIP and VENERATE in the dictionary

Venerate: “To regard with respect, reverence, or heartfelt deference.”

Worship: “The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or sacred object.”

The Fifth Commandments is “Honor your Father and your Mother.”

Protestants, do you honor your father and mother? Do you respect them? Of Course you do.

This is what we Catholics do we honour/respect our parents, and for the Blessed Virgin Mary being our Mother we do the same.

Protestants, do you worship your parents? Of course not, and neither do us Catholics worship our parents. However, it is the Fifth Commandment that we should Venerate/Honor them as we do Virgin Mary our Heavenly Mother for all eternity.

Worship and Venerate according to the definition found in the Dictionary and in Every Catholic Heart, these two words have quite different meanings.

Through the Grace of God, I have been a Catholic 44 years and Counting and I have many family members and friends also who are strong Catholics never once have we Worshiped Virgin Mary

Protestants, I know for a fact you heard all this before, but you have your eyes and mind closed to the Truth! You must believe that we worship Mary, you must in order to try to justify your disobedience To Mary, in which you are breaking the Fifth Commandment for she is Our Mother and she deserves to be venerated/honored daily! “All GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED.” Is calling Mary Blessed, is this only for Chistmas time, if that, is this the only time you remember to call her Blessed. If it is Shame on you.

There is not a day that goes by that I forget to call Mary Blessed and that goes for the Catholic Church as well.

Protestants, will you leap for Joy for Mary? Doing so would you consider this being Worshiping or Venerating Mary?

John the Baptist in the Womb of Elizabeth LEAPT for Joy when he heard Mary’s Voice. Is John worshiping or venerating Mary? John, is venerating Mary and if a “baby” has the Knowledge/Grace form God to venerate Mary, then I think you Protestants should to.

Then again if God Has Not given you the Grace to have this Knoweldge such as a Baby, then You should all ask God for it.

Protestants, show me this document/teaching of the Church that tell us Catholics that we should worship Mary?

44 years being Catholic, I never came across this Teaching of the Church.

Truth is you can’t find this Document/Teaching it does not exist and since it does not Exist, you will Never find it! Case Closed!

Ufamtobie
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Sounds like Bill Clinton; “I did not have “S” relations with that woman.” and "It depends on the definition of “if” I’m sure God will rightly judge all of the Maryology - co-mediatrix…please.
 
CentralFLJames said:
You are just parroting the same contempt for apostolic authority that many heretics that have come and gone over the last 2000 years have demonstrated. They are before their final eternal fate now.

You have no proof for what you claim. You can invent any “feel good” belief you like but you know in your heart that your bible-church did not come into existence until at most 500 years ago. You are just parroting the same neo-Christian lies and errors of men like Luther, John Wesley et-al. Judge by the fruits of these men - 10’s of thousands of factions, and divisions and denominations all with contempt for each other’s teachings and having only one thing in common - not a demonstrated love of Christ but a very demonstrated contempt for the Catholic Church.

Yet Christ made it very clear that He can not be seperated from His Church - the apostolic Catholic Church.

Act 9:3-5
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.

If you want the evidence of the dozens of scripture references that tell us that the Biblical Church is Catholic then read the following link. But if you just want to remain in league and communion with those who hold the contempt of Catholics at the same level of worship and attention you say you give God then stay on in your ignorance and your contempt - since your devotion to contempt of the Catholic Church and propagation of lies and calumny proves that you do not worship God alone.

The Biblical Church is Catholic:
scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html

James
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James, you copied this post from another person…LOL don’t you have you own material…LOL
 
Good_Fella said:
The Gospels implicitly contain what the Apostles believed and taught orally.
  1. Mary is the Mother of God and Spouse of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 2, 10-11; Luke 1, 35; 43; John 1, 1,14; Galatians 4, 4

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and of spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 110)
  1. Mary is ever-Virgin.
Luke 1, 34, 38 (cf. Songs 4, 12)

“The Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her.”
Justin Martyr (A.D. 155)
  1. Mary is the sinless New Eve and pure Ark of the new Covenant.
Luke 1, 28, 38, 43-44 (cf. 2 Sam 6:9), 45; 11, 28*

“Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience [sin] was loosed by the obedience [sinlessness] of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)

For whereas the Word of God was without flesh, He took upon Himself the holy flesh by the Holy Virgin, and prepared a robe which He wove for Himself."
Hyppolytus (A.D. 200)

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.”
Origen (A.D. 244)

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.”
Ambrose (A.D. 388)
  1. The sinless Virgin Mary and pure Mother of our Lord was taken up body and soul into heaven.
  • Luke 1, 28; 46-49 (cf. Isa 61:10); 1 Corinthians 15, 22-23; Revelation 11, 19; 12, 1*
“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Saviour and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibilty of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.”
Modestus of Jerusalem (ante A.D. 634)

“It was fitting…that the most holy body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory…should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.”
Theoteknos of Livias (ante A.D. 650)
  1. Mary, the new Eve and our spiritual mother, is the Mother of the Church.
John 2, 5; 19, 26-27; Revelation 12, 17 (cf. Gen 3:15)

“I love to call her [Mary] the Church. This mother, when alone, had not milk, because when alone she was not a ‘woman’. But she is once virgin and mother – pure as a virgin and loving as a mother. And calling her children to her, she nurses them with holy milk, viz., with the Word for childhood.”
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 202)
  1. Mary is Queen of Heaven and the Advocata of the people of God.
Luke 1, 28, 31-33; 2, 35; Matthew 27, 29; John 2, 3-5, 7; (cf. 1 Kgs 2: 17-20; Neh 2:6; Ps 45:9)

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory.”
Theodotus of Ancrya (ante A.D. 446)

“With the Mediator you are the Mediatrix of the entire world.”
Ephraem (A.D. 373)

“For she who brought forth the source of mercy, Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, receiving from him all things, will and through him, grant the wishes of all.”
Paul the Deacon (ante A.D. 799)

PAX :harp:
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Pretty easy to see your current destination…Mother of God, nope mother of Jesus (the human), not Jesus the God. God has no mother; that’s one of things that makes Him GOD!
 
NonCatholic said:
James, you copied this post from another person…LOL don’t you have you own material…LOL
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Please don’t be ridiculous. I referenced another work to keep the reply under the posting limits and to save the readership time.

James
 
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