To the Jewish Faith: How long will you wait?

[mark_a]

No. But I know one Jew who will be a direct descendant of David.

I’m not sure I understand.

 

[Namesake]

I’m not sure I understand.

The Messiah.

 

[mark_a]

The Messiah.

How will they know?

 

[ryanoneil]

Jews have accepted Jesus as the Messiah, many of them. For those who don’t, not even if Moses or Abraham come back alive to tell them, they would not accept. For these are the generations that killed and stoned the prophets who were sent for them. Jesus was sent to them but at last his people recieved him not. They crucified him and blood is on their hands.

I hope I’m not misunderstanding. I hope this isn’t a blanket statement about modern Jews. The generation that stoned and killed the prophets refer to the “Jewish leadership” in power when Jesus was killed. Not all Jews at that time and specifically NOT the generations of Jews to follow.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[Namesake]

How will they know?

He will be a man, not a deity, directly descended from King David.

He will be a Jew, observing Judaic principles.

There will be peace throughout the world.

The Temple will be reinstated (rebuilt for the third time).

The whole world will worship one God.

Weapons of war will be destroyed. Swords beaten into plowshares.

All Jews will be returned to Israel.

There is a lot more, but these things must occur before or when the Messiah comes.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Ya know? If we could just get rid of that idea. The idea that the RCC is the one true religion people could get along a lot better.

Oh yes, let me just give up all of my convictions and the religious truth of the Church, because it offends you.

The idea that the RCC is the one true religion is a very divisive idea.

Christ never claimed to be politically correct.

h, I know that RCs believe that it is only divisive because Jews and Protestants and others don’t accept that idea. If we would all just accept the RCC as the true church of Christ there would be no division.

Yes.

Have ya’all ever stopped and thought about how non RCs feel when you state that idea?

LOL you are hilarious

The Muslims do the same thing. They believe Islam is the one true religion. It’s very offensive.

And the Muslims have every right to believe that. I’m not offended.

Perhaps you need to grow up.

I believe that the RCC can be a wonderful, beautiful religion up until it gets shoved down people’s throats. I am attracted to the RCC because of the liturgy, and the Magisterium, and lots of other things. But when RCs start telling everyone that theirs is the only true church I get turned off big time.

How dare the Church teach what Christ commanded!? The ACLU is so much more important!

I don’t think any one religion has all the answers, but the closest for me is Judaism. I believe like Bill Buckley believes. He wrote that if he found that he could no longer be Roman Catholic he would be most comfortable in Judaism. He wrote that in a book titled “Nearer My God”.

I really could care less what you believe.

And the idea that the pope prays for the conversion of Jews is offensive too.

If Jews are bound for Hell and we do not pray for them, then that would be the most anti-semetic thing of all.

RCs claim that the RCC gave us the bible. Where did they get all the OT stuff? The OT stuff is the very basis for Christianity.

The Church compiled the books that make up the Holy Bible. The “OT stuff” is the Torah, which came from the Biblical Israelites, whom were Gods Choson before the Messaih (Jesus) arrived.

We are a Judeo-Christian people. Why would the pope want to remove the Jews from the combination.

Because modern Judaism and OT Judaism are totally different.

My sister is converted Jew and I greatly respect her choice. Her husband was a cradle Catholic who also converted to Judaism. They both are very content in their new religion. It’s a very interesting story about how they came to leave Christianity but too long for this discussion.

I really am not interested.

Ya’all make me reconsider my intent to become an RC. Maybe Jews have it closer to right. I dunno!

If you do not believe the Church to be the one true faith, then you have some serious research left to do.

 

[mark_a]

He will be a man, not a deity, directly descended from King David.

How will we know he is directly decended?

There will be peace throughout the world.

Will this peace be due to him, or merely coincide with his reign or term or lifetime?

The Temple will be reinstated (rebuilt for the third time).

There’s this guy that shows up every year in a pickup with a cornerstone and a red heffer. . . . . The authorities run him off.

All Jews will be returned to Israel.

The place or the theology? From what I understand, most Jews don’t want to live there.

 

[Valke2]

I’m not sure I understand.

I was referencing the Messiah. When he comes, his lineage will be apparent.

 

[Valke2]

How will they know?

I don’t know how we will know. My best guess is that he will so clearly be the Messiah based on other conditions that will be met that his lineage will not be in question.

 

[Righteousone]

I was referencing the Messiah. When he comes, his lineage will be apparent.

He’s already come Valke, He’s already come…you will wait forever and He’s already come…

 

[Valke2]

He’s already come Valke, He’s already come…you will wait forever and He’s already come…

You just keep thinking, Butch. - Sundance Kid.

 

[Righteousone]

Ya know? If we could just get rid of that idea. The idea that the RCC is the one true religion people could get along a lot better.

The idea that the RCC is the one true religion is a very divisive idea. Oh, I know that RCs believe that it is only divisive because Jews and Protestants and others don’t accept that idea. If we would all just accept the RCC as the true church of Christ there would be no division.

Have ya’all ever stopped and thought about how non RCs feel when you state that idea? The Muslims do the same thing. They believe Islam is the one true religion. It’s very offensive.

I believe that the RCC can be a wonderful, beautiful religion up until it gets shoved down people’s throats. I am attracted to the RCC because of the liturgy, and the Magisterium, and lots of other things. But when RCs start telling everyone that theirs is the only true church I get turned off big time.

I don’t think any one religion has all the answers, but the closest for me is Judaism. I believe like Bill Buckley believes. He wrote that if he found that he could no longer be Roman Catholic he would be most comfortable in Judaism. He wrote that in a book titled “Nearer My God”.

And the idea that the pope prays for the conversion of Jews is offensive too. RCs claim that the RCC gave us the bible. Where did they get all the OT stuff? The OT stuff is the very basis for Christianity. We are a Judeo-Christian people. Why would the pope want to remove the Jews from the combination.

My sister is converted Jew and I greatly respect her choice. Her husband was a cradle Catholic who also converted to Judaism. They both are very content in their new religion. It’s a very interesting story about how they came to leave Christianity but too long for this discussion.

Ya’all make me reconsider my intent to become an RC. Maybe Jews have it closer to right. I dunno!

Taking the Old Testament, we know that it was always divided into three portions. The Law, the Prophets, and the Writings.
The Law which at one time formed the sole Book of Scripture that the Jews pocessed. Moses wrote it, and placed a copy of it in the Ark; that was about 3300 years ago. To this were added, long afterwards, the Prophets, and the Writings, forming the complete OT. At what date precisely the volume or ‘canon’ of the OT was finally closed and recognized as completed for ever is not absolutely certain.
Some would decide for about the year 430 B.C., under Esdras and Nehemiah, resting upon the authority of the famous Jew, Josephus, who lived immediately after Our Lord.
One thing is certain, that is, for 100 years before Our Lord–the OT existed precisely as we have it now.

 

[Righteousone]

Why is it a terrible thing to say the Jews killed Christ? It is written in the bible that it is so, then why is it so “offensive” when it is what it is?
If Pilate didn’t want to kill Him, and the Jews cried out crucify Him, exchanged Him for Barrabbas, left Him to die, then why is it offensive when St. John says in his Gospel almost every chapter about how the Jews killed Christ, I don’t get it…why do we have to sugar coat this???

 

[ryanoneil]

Why is it a terrible thing to say the Jews killed Christ? It is written in the bible that it is so, then why is it so “offensive” when it is what it is?
If Pilate didn’t want to kill Him, and the Jews cried out crucify Him, exchanged Him for Barrabbas, left Him to die, then why is it offensive when St. John says in his Gospel almost every chapter about how the Jews killed Christ, I don’t get it…why do we have to sugar coat this???

It’s not sugar coating it’s called being a good Christian.

CCC 575 Many of Jesus’ deeds and words constituted a “sign of contradiction”, but more so for the religious authorities in Jerusalem, whom the Gospel according to John often calls simply “the Jews”, than for the ordinary People of God. To be sure, Christ’s relations with the Pharisees were not exclusively polemical. Some Pharisees warn him of the danger he was courting; Jesus praises some of them, like the scribe of Mark 12:34, and dines several times at their homes. Jesus endorses some of the teachings imparted by this religious elite of God’s people: the resurrection of the dead, certain forms of piety (almsgiving, fasting and prayer), the custom of addressing God as Father, and the centrality of the commandment to love God and neighbor.

All these verses refer specifically to the religious authorities in Jerusalem. (John 1:19; 2:18; 5:10; 7:13; 9:22; 18:12; 19:38; 20:19) They don’t refer to normal Jews, the Jews who converted to christianity, or the Diaspora Jews who were scattered throughout the known world.

Think of it this way. I’m a Catholic and your profile says you are. If someone said “the Catholics” recently molested and abused children. How fair and accurate is that statement? It’s not accurate at all. A few bad priests were guilty, not every Catholic in the known world.

To say the Jews killed Jesus is no different than making the above statement.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[Righteousone]

It’s not sugar coating it’s called being a good Christian.

All these verses refer specifically to the religious authorities in Jerusalem. (John 1:19; 2:18; 5:10; 7:13; 9:22; 18:12; 19:38; 20:19) They don’t refer to normal Jews, the Jews who converted to christianity, or the Diaspora Jews who were scattered throughout the known world.

Think of it this way. I’m a Catholic and your profile says you are. If someone said “the Catholics” recently molested and abused children. How fair and accurate is that statement? It’s not accurate at all. A few bad priests were guilty, not every Catholic in the known world.

To say the Jews killed Jesus is no different than making the above statement.

Peace,

Ryan

Yes, I understand what you are saying here…in the bible, St. john says in almost every chapter after the Passion that the Jews killed Jesus. The letters of St. Paul also state that the Jews were trying to kill him and Peter.
I am sorry, but the Jews who yelled ‘crucify Him’ and chose Barrabas, were the ones responsible for Jesus’s death. Pilate only carried it out according to their wishes. I do not dislike the Jews, but come on, they have to take responsibility here somewhere, whether you try and deny this or try to sugar coat it.
None believed in christ, just like today they don’t. 2,000 years ago they left him there to die. They wanted Him dead b/c He upset the Temple and wanted new order in Israel. The Jews were threatened by this. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 

[Valke2]

The Romans killed Jesus. But if a new christianity wrote that, than the Romans would have killed christianity. So they cut their losses and blamed the Jews. IMO.

How come you never see anyone compelled to go around saying “The Romans killed Jesus!”

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The Romans killed Jesus. But if a new christianity wrote that, than the Romans would have killed christianity. So they cut their losses and blamed the Jews. IMO.

How come you never see anyone compelled to go around saying “The Romans killed Jesus!”

Jews didn’t kill Jesus but they caused it. Jews have always said Jesus is a false prophet, and we know what Torah says to do with false prophets. So there is no mystery.

 

[Valke2]

Jews didn’t kill Jesus but they caused it. Jews have always said Jesus is a false prophet, and we know what Torah says to do with false prophets. So there is no mystery.

Nope. Don’t believe it. Don’t agree with it. I stand by my original opinion. It defies my imagination to believe the Jews put pressure on Pilate and he "caved, Gospels notwithstanding.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Nope. Don’t believe it. Don’t agree with it. I stand by my original opinion. It defies my imagination to believe the Jews put pressure on Pilate and he "caved, Gospels notwithstanding.

He had been warned by Rome to cool it with Jews and was recalled for that reason, that’s historical record. So it’s entirely possible he didn’t want them to cause any more trouble for him with the Jesus issue.

 

[ralphinal]

The Romans killed Jesus. But if a new christianity wrote that, than the Romans would have killed christianity. So they cut their losses and blamed the Jews. IMO.

How come you never see anyone compelled to go around saying “The Romans killed Jesus!”

I do say that. Lots. It was the Romans put into a postition by a small group of Jewish religious and political figures. But, it is similar to saying that a man was killed by a .44 magnum. The bullit was the cause of death, but he was killed by the man who pulled the trigger.

Now, to the OP. IS it possible that Jesus second coming will be the Caoming of the Messiah for the Jewish people? Is it theologically acceptable to say that? I would ask if the Jewish community would accept it as a possibility, but Valke has taught me not to expect all to accept anything. But, is this possible?

Personally, i will wait until I die or he comes. I can’t do anything else.