To The Jews: Suppose You Found Out Christ Truly Exists...

[Sepharad]

For those of us who don’t know or remember the meaning of the hebrew words you use, cold you put its equivalent in English, please? Thanks!
Shalom!

I’m sorry! I see Valke2 answered your question (thanks, Valke!)

I normally use the Hebrew terminology because usually I’m on a Jewish forum where the terms are understood. I’ll try to remember to use the translations from now on!

 

[Cathdefender]

Actually, I’m going to take the advice of another CAF member and place “Cathdefender” on ignore, just as I once had to do with “righteousone”…responding to her posts is taking up way too much of my time, and its a waste anyway since her questions are never sincere, and just designed for argumentation.

Yea, I’ll let Eden and others respond to you as well. Get a clue.

 

[Cathdefender]

Actually, I’m going to take the advice of another CAF member and place “Cathdefender” on ignore, just as I once had to do with “righteousone”…responding to her posts is taking up way too much of my time, and its a waste anyway since her questions are never sincere, and just designed for argumentation.

At least I DO NOT LIE as you have been caught several times on this forum.

 

[Sepharad]

Ah, so it does not matter that the early Jewish Christians were banned from Jewish synogogs and worship services? How could they keep all the Torah when some of it was banned?

I don’t know the precise reason why the first Christians (of Jewish origin) were banned from the synagogue, but it may have had something to do with their flight to Pella when the Temple was being destroyed…maybe the regular Jews saw that as betrayal, and not standing with their people in their time of need.

Or, it could be because they by then had adopted the belief that Jesus was divine. That alone would have been enough to have them declared as Jewish heretics.

 

[Sepharad]

At least I DO NOT LIE as you have been caught several times on this forum.

I’ve never lied about anything, as hard as that may be for you to believe. Yet you keep insisting you are not “righteousone” even though everyone knows you are.

You can claim all you want that you have never tried to persuade me to believe in Jesus…you have been most arrogant about it, and anyone who has followed all this knows the kinds of things you have posted to me and to others. And anyone new can certainly research it and look up all your posts directed to me.

You are just not worth the time to argue with anymore.

 

[ralphinal]

I don’t know the precise reason why the first Christians (of Jewish origin) were banned from the synagogue, but it may have had something to do with their flight to Pella when the Temple was being destroyed…maybe the regular Jews saw that as betrayal, and not standing with their people in their time of need.

Or, it could be because they by then had adopted the belief that Jesus was divine. That alone would have been enough to have them declared as Jewish heretics.

It has been a while since I studied this, but it seems to me to have been more closely tied to the flight to Pella and destruction of the temple. I am not sure that I can find my sourse books on that, as I went through a house fire years ago.

Also, if memory serves (and it does not always do so), I think that there was a faction of Christians who saw the destruction of the temple as a sign that the old Law no longer applied. Rightly or wrongly, it would be understandable.

 

[Sepharad]

It has been a while since I studied this, but it seems to me to have been more closely tied to the flight to Pella and destruction of the temple. I am not sure that I can find my sourse books on that, as I went through a house fire years ago.

Also, if memory serves (and it does not always do so), I think that there was a faction of Christians who saw the destruction of the temple as a sign that the old Law no longer applied. Rightly or wrongly, it would be understandable.

Yes, that was how they viewed the destruction of the Temple…even though Jewish prophecy also had foretold it woulod be destroyed due to the sins of the Jewish people (just as the first Temple had also been destroyed.) When Jesus “predicted” the destruction of the Second Temple, he was only repeating what Jewish prophecies had already foretold.

But, like the Zolli situation, the Jewish people back then no doubt viewed any Jews who “hid out” while their people were suffering, as traitors.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes, that was how they viewed the destruction of the Temple…even though Jewish prophecy also had foretold it woulod be destroyed due to the sins of the Jewish people (just as the first Temple had also been destroyed.) When Jesus “predicted” the destruction of the Second Temple, he was only repeating what Jewish prophecies had already foretold.

But, like the Zolli situation, the Jewish people back then no doubt viewed any Jews who “hid out” while their people were suffering, as traitors.

Understandable.

I may be getting a couple of events confused, but it seems like there was an issue of a man claiming to be the Messiah at that time. He was the one that really caused the Romans to destroy the city. If I am remmembering this correctly, the main reason that the Christians did not side with him is because they already had the Messiah and they saw him as an imposter.

Again, I may be confused.

 

[Cathdefender]

I’ve never lied about anything, as hard as that may be for you to believe. Yet you keep insisting you are not “righteousone” even though everyone knows you are.

You can claim all you want that you have never tried to persuade me to believe in Jesus…you have been most arrogant about it, and anyone who has followed all this knows the kinds of things you have posted to me and to others. And anyone new can certainly research it and look up all your posts directed to me.

You are just not worth the time to argue with anymore.

I thought I was on your ‘ignore’ list??

 

[Sepharad]

Understandable.

I may be getting a couple of events confused, but it seems like there was an issue of a man claiming to be the Messiah at that time. He was the one that really caused the Romans to destroy the city. If I am remmembering this correctly, the main reason that the Christians did not side with him is because they already had the Messiah and they saw him as an imposter.

Again, I may be confused.

That would have been Bar Kosiba (called Bar Kochba in non-Jewish writings).

 

[ralphinal]

That would have been Bar Kosiba (called Bar Kochba in non-Jewish writings).

Thanks. I am glad to know that my mind is not totally shot

Now that I see all the peices, the Christian version is something like this.

Man decides Rome got to get out of Jerusalem.

Man mobilizes Jewish folks.

Jewish Christians see that man is not Messiah and refuse to participate.

Rome recalls that it is Rome.

Rome strikes back

Jewish Christians go into hiding and flee, feeling that they were correct in not taking up arms

Jerusalem is nearly destroyed with the temple being toppled

Jewish folks mad at Christians for not helping and kick them out

Christians see the destruction of the temple as the end of the old ways and are happy to leave.

More or less

 

[Lapell]

I’m sorry! I see Valke2 answered your question (thanks, Valke!)

I normally use the Hebrew terminology because usually I’m on a Jewish forum where the terms are understood. I’ll try to remember to use the translations from now on!

It’s O.K.!.. Thanks!

 

[ufamtobie]

Exactly how is this miraculous revelation supposed to take place?

Kaninchen, A Miracle has taken place already and that is that you are here at this site. You are not here by chance, you are here by the Grace of Jesus Christ to become Catholic, why else would you be here, I mean, You are searching for Jesus Christ, so you are at the Right Place.

Ufamtobie

 

[Kaninchen]

Kaninchen, A Miracle has taken place already and that is that you are here at this site. You are not here by chance, you are here by the Grace of Jesus Christ to become Catholic, why else would you be here, I mean, You are searching for Jesus Christ, so you are at the Right Place.

Ufamtobie

Just to be clear, I’ve been on religious message boards of all sorts for about a decade and a half and, when you’ve been around for a while, you’ll notice that rarely get involved in ‘religious’ discussions - basically, it’s that I’m not now terribly interested in what people believe or why they believe it and I’m certainly not terribly interested in discussing what I believe or why I believe it.

Neither am I particularly interested in talking about my life, my family or my feelings.

With all these things, to re-hash the old cliché, “been there, done that, bought . . . . . .”

What I am rather interested in, because I spend and have spent a lot of time living in ‘culturally Catholic’ (though not exactly ‘religious’ societies), are the consequences of what people believe.

If I were searching for Jesus Christ, a message board would be the last place I’d start.

 

[Sepharad]

Kaninchen, A Miracle has taken place already and that is that you are here at this site. You are not here by chance, you are here by the Grace of Jesus Christ to become Catholic, why else would you be here, I mean, You are searching for Jesus Christ, so you are at the Right Place.

Ufamtobie

You know, when I first came to this forum it was to get an answer to a question I had, about something my formerly Catholic mother (she converted to Judaism) had once told me from her childhood. I stuck around when I also noticed a lot of threads about converting Jews to Catholicism (as a lifelong countermissionary, that naturally piqued my interest.)

I stayed because I got sucked into a lot of discussions, and often I would pray to God, to ask Him WHY He let me get sucked into this forum when its been taking up too much of my time!

Well, ever since I began praying like that, He has begun showing me my purpose here.

Since I have been here, I have had many Catholics PM me, asking questions about Judaism and Jewish teachings. At first I didn’t know what to tell them, because if their reason for wanting to know stemmed from learning more about Jews in order to convert them (which is what it sounded like from the forum), I would not want to be guilty of helping them for that reason.

But the more I PMed with many of them, the more I came to see that they TRULY wanted to understand Judaism, and some of them seemed really concerned as to what Judaism teaches their eternal fate would be. I couldn’t figure out why practicing (I assume) Catholics would have such a concern, if they were established in their own faith. I still don’t know what that was all about, but I’m glad I was able to help them.

I also was able to assist a Jewish person who had become Catholic years ago, and now wanted to return to Judaism but did not know how to. I tried not to mention this earlier, because I was afraid it might violate the person’s privacy. But since they are no longer on this forum, I feel its OK to mention it now.

So, I now see why God caused me to come here, the last place I’d ever think I’d end up (and I’ve posted on many religious forums, everything from Native American spirituality forums to Buddhist forums to evangelical Christian forums to “messianic” forums.)

I’ve spent my life studying the world’s religions and in all that found time to study my own too! Its a very fascinating subject to me, and I have learned that there is some truth and good in all religions. But that does not mean I want to join any of them.

Everything I have ever sought, I have found in my own faith of Judaism. I have no need to go outside of it.

 

[NDfan]

This is a “what if” question and I’d really like some serious replies from Jews and atheists alike…what if the NT was everything it said it was and Christ does actually exist…what would you do? I mean if you really, sincerely knew he does exist…what would you do?

Many Jews believe Jesus existed. They just don’t believe HE was and is the Messiah.

 

[Carl_Nicholas]

Since I have been here, I have had many Catholics PM me, asking questions about Judaism and Jewish teachings. At first I didn’t know what to tell them, because if their reason for wanting to know stemmed from learning more about Jews in order to convert them (which is what it sounded like from the forum), I would not want to be guilty of helping them for that reason.

But the more I PMed with many of them, the more I came to see that they TRULY wanted to understand Judaism, and some of them seemed really concerned as to what Judaism teaches their eternal fate would be. I couldn’t figure out why practicing (I assume) Catholics would have such a concern, if they were established in their own faith. I still don’t know what that was all about, but I’m glad I was able to help them.I’d ever think I’d end up (and I’ve posted on many religious forums, everything from Native American spirituality forums to Buddhist forums to evangelical Christian forums to “messianic” forums.)]

Hi again Sepharad,
As one of the above mentioned that PMed you, I thought I would give an answer to the above reference.

My desire was not to try and convert you, but to try and learn ( directly from a devout Jew ) what some of the beliefs you have that you so preciously defend.

I also ( no offense intended ) was not overly CONCERNED as to what Judaism teaches my eternal fate would be as a Catholic.
I was very interested and often wondered what that teaching was from the Torah as well as the oral laws of Judaism in regard to that matter.

It WAS a very kind and generous response you had offered me ( especailly in light of the fact that I PMed you with my questions)
for that, I do sincerly appreciate your time as well as the info you shared with me.

P.S. I did try and PM you back to thank you but your " box" is full

God bless,
Carl

 

[Sepharad]

Sepharad;3819959:

Since I have been here, I have had many Catholics PM me, asking questions about Judaism and Jewish teachings. At first I didn’t know what to tell them, because if their reason for wanting to know stemmed from learning more about Jews in order to convert them (which is what it sounded like from the forum), I would not want to be guilty of helping them for that reason.

But the more I PMed with many of them, the more I came to see that they TRULY wanted to understand Judaism, and some of them seemed really concerned as to what Judaism teaches their eternal fate would be. I couldn’t figure out why practicing (I assume) Catholics would have such a concern, if they were established in their own faith. I still don’t know what that was all about, but I’m glad I was able to help them.I’d ever think I’d end up (and I’ve posted on many religious forums, everything from Native American spirituality forums to Buddhist forums to evangelical Christian forums to “messianic” forums.)]

Hi again Sepharad,
As one of the above mentioned that PMed you, I thought I would give an answer to the above reference.

My desire was not to try and convert you, but to try and learn ( directly from a devout Jew ) what some of the beliefs you have that you so preciously defend.

I also ( no offense intended ) was not overly CONCERNED as to what Judaism teaches my eternal fate would be as a Catholic.
I was very interested and often wondered what that teaching was from the Torah as well as the oral laws of Judaism in regard to that matter.

It WAS a very kind and generous response you had offered me ( especailly in light of the fact that I PMed you with my questions)
for that, I do sincerly appreciate your time as well as the info you shared with me.

P.S. I did try and PM you back to thank you but your " box" is full

God bless,
Carl

Hi Carl,

Actually, I wasn’t referring to you. You’re not the first or only person to PM me, I’ve had quite a few over the last few months of being here.

Anyway, glad I could be of help!

 

[reen12]

This is a “what if” question and I’d really like some serious replies from Jews and atheists alike…what if the NT was everything it said it was and Christ does actually exist…what would you do? I mean if you really, sincerely knew he does exist…what would you do?

I, too, have a question. What would Christians do, if they
found out - actually found out - that Jesus was not God/Son of God?

[5 out of every 7 persons on the planet, this date, either know not
of Jesus, or - knowing - reject the claims of the Christian churches.]

2nd question:
What would my attitude be, if I was told by group X - that their
divinity “saved” me - even if I didn’t know it. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

reen12

 

[Sepharad]

I personally, would not want Christians to stop believing in Jesus, as long as they are gentiles.

I have seen a belief in Jesus (regardless of whether it is true or false) change the lives of Gentiles. I remember that woman who was executed, Karla Faye Tucker…her life truly was changed because of a belief she came to adopt, in Jesus.

If a belief in Jesus can change a person from a murderer to a decent person, from a drug addict to a clean, sober person, I’m all for it!

My ONLY complaint is when they try to say JEWS must accept this belief also. We have the Torah, and I have seen Jews who went from nonreligious to Torah observant, have changed lives too!

But if Jesus “works” to make nonJews into better people, far be it from me to object!

So yes, what I am saying is: even if it is a false belief, it seems to work for many people. This is why no matter what I may believe about Jesus, I never, ever try to talk a Gentile into giving up Christianity…because the alternative could be FAR worse.