Tobin: Kennedy may be 'more comfortable' as ex-Catholic

[redrosetea]

What did Christ say in his Sermon on the Mount? You can not serve God and Mammon

I think he would say to Bishop Tobin … Well done thou good and faithful servant

 

[maggiemay2u]

I came to me during Mass this morning that Kennedy and his ilk had the opportunity to become defenders of the faith like Thomas Becket and Thomas More. Both martyrs faced off with their respective Henrys, and when given the choice of earthy or heavenly fortune, chose the path I’m sure we all hope to have the courage to, if put to the test.

It appears to be in the kingdom of man that many our Kennedy brethren have chosen to receive their reward…they and all their minions are in my prayers for conversion.

 

[zab]

Maggie,

You may have a point. It just bothers me that he is giving this Kennedy jerk more attention than he deserves. Catholics are cursed with the Kennedy name. Why do these Kennedy’s keep insisting that they are Catholic. They are pro abortion, pro same sex marriage politicians. And, by the way they are Catholic. Gimme a break.

He may be a “jerk” to you, but he is loved by his grandmother, Rose, and Bishop Tobin may be an answer to her prayers.

 

[JReducation]

Here is an FYI for those who do not know this. In the secular press there are many respondents who say that the Church has no business in this matter because it does not pay taxes and because of separation of Church and State. Let’s take a look at both.

THE CHURCH DOES NOT PAY TAXES

1. All non-profits are tax exempt. Does that mean that non-profit organizations in this country cannot have a voice in the public arena?
2. Bishop Tobin is a secular priest. Secular priests are tax-payers. The are payed a salary like any other Church employee. They have to file, pay taxes to the federal government, state tax and social security tax. In addition, the Church does not pay any part of their FICA. The IRS classifies secular priests, Protestant Pastors and Rabbis as self-employed professionals. Thereefore, they pay higher taxes.
3. Religious do not pay taxes, because we do not get paid salaries. The few religioius who are paid salaries, because they work for organizations outside of their religious orders do pay taxes.

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

1. The Constitution says that “The state shall not adopt an official religion.” It does not say that there is a separation between the Church and state. If that is the case, there are many city and county governments that have violated the Constitution. I ran Catholic schools for more than 30 years. We have children with special needs. Their tuition was paid by the local school board as long as we followd the IEP that came with the student. Many hospitals receive medicaid and medicaer payments. The state contracts many Catholic and other religious social service organizations to provide services to their citizens, because the state does not have the services in place.
2. The Constittuion guarrantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Any politician has the right to exercise his religious beliefs while in office. To forbid it or for the citizens to demand that a politician abdicate his faith is a violation of the Constitution.
3. A bishop remains a citizen of his country. Therefore, he has the right to express his moral concern and to perform his religious duties.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

I’m really proud of the leadership that our bishops have being showing over the past year. Unfortunately, the Kennedys have believed they are above the law for far too long. I once read in a biography of the Kennedy family, that Joe Kennedy was called to Ted’s school when the boy was caught cheating. Ted relayed in later accounts that his father told him he was not upset that Ted was cheating, just that he was caught. With that kind of family value system, it’s no wonder that Patrick can’t understand why he is being called to account to live as all Catholics are called to live. He’s never heard the word “no” before. May God bless Bishop Tobin.

 

[redrosetea]

I want to say that I think Rose did everything a mother could do to give a good example

She really made sure the children understood the catechism, and the lives of saints and feast days

I think she went to mass daily for most of her life

 

[JReducation]

I want to say that I think Rose did everything a mother could do to give a good example

She really made sure the children understood the catechism, and the lives of saints and feast days

I think she went to mass daily for most of her life

Mrs. Kennedy was a very devout woman. As far as Congressman Kennedy’s run-in with the bishop, I hope that the bishop will know when to turn the heat up and when to turn it down. There is such a thing as overkill. The worse that can happen is for Mr. Kennedy to look like a martyr.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[maryc3]

Thank God for Bishop Tobin.
He is calling his brother in Christ to repentance.
He is a shepherd seeking to save his soul.

 

[redrosetea]

Mrs. Kennedy was a very devout woman. As far as Congressman Kennedy’s run-in with the bishop, I hope that the bishop will know when to turn the heat up and when to turn it down. There is such a thing as overkill. The worse that can happen is for Mr. Kennedy to look like a martyr.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

He probably already does to like minded people…Frankly My dear, I don’t give a damn to quote Rhett Butler

I am glad to see a Bishop with some spine

 

[maggiemay2u]

He probably already does to like minded people…Frankly My dear, I don’t give a damn to quote Rhett Butler

I am glad to see a Bishop with some spine

I agree. Matthews and Dowd are but two of his ‘catholic’ friends who have already condemned the Church for trying to “force him” to bow to Rome. The leftist media will never call out his cowardice in running to publicly attempt to demonize the bishop, rather than acting like a grown-up and choosing his faith or his power.

 

[JReducation]

I agree. Matthews and Dowd are but two of his ‘catholic’ friends who have already condemned the Church for trying to “force him” to bow to Rome. The leftist media will never call out his cowardice in running to publicly attempt to demonize the bishop, rather than acting like a grown-up and choosing his faith or his power.

Do we really expect the media to understand that faith and civic duty are not mutually exclusive?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[maggiemay2u]

Do we really expect the media to understand that faith and civic duty are not mutually exclusive?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

In the case of Matthews and Dowd, yes. As they tout their own Catholic credentials, and prowess for investigative journalism, then yes, I expect them to have done their homework.

 

[redrosetea]

Dowd is really the worse of the 2…I think she is beset by personal demons…with Matthews I think it is just pride, power, and greed for more of the same

 

[JReducation]

I am of the belief that to understand the relationship between faith and civil duty one has to have good formation and a balanced personality. I don’t know the formation of either of these two reporters or their personality, but from what I have seen, I can extrapolate that they are lacking something.

In our Franciscan family we have had several men and women who had a very balanced approach to faith and civic duty: Thomas More, Joan of Arc, Louis King of France and Elizabeth of Hungary to name a few. For anyone who struggles reconciling the two, these are worthwhile saints to study. They were salt in their time and place. Thomas More said it best when he was sentenced: “I am a loyal servant of the King and a faithful son of the Church.”

Louis King of France, also a Franciscan, realized that God had given him his position as King to bring forth great works of justice and charity for the good of his people. He led them, not according the the plans and wishes of the world, but according to the plans and wishes of the Lord.

Elizabeth of Hungary and her husband, were also great models of Christian civil service. They understood that they were to be useful to the world through the witness of the Christian life through good leadership and compassion, especially for the poor. After her husband’s death, Elizabeth continued to serve her people by evangelizing. She evangelized through her life and her witness to a life of austerity, poverty and charity.

Joan, as we know, led her king to victory. But she lived and practiced her faith seriously in a very public setting. She led the king do victory, because the king’s cause was just, not because he demanded it. There is the difference. Her choice was a choice of conscience. It brought her great suffering and eventually martyrdom. Her courage to live the Gospel and promote the Gospel in the public square, when it was fashionable and not fashionable, her courage did not diminish, even though it cost her.

Unfortunately, we are not forming our younger generation with these same values. We have pushed the great “American Heresy,” the existence of a false barrier between faith and patriotism. When you push this model of thinking, you create a moral schizophrenia. The oath to protect the Constitution becomes not a civic duty, but a religion of its own. What we need to help people understand is that the oath to protect the Constitution is an oath to protect the citizens of a nation from all forms of evil, not an oath to allow evil.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

This is a bit off the track but within the same topic we are speaking of

Agatha Christie in her bio, spoke about how things had suddenly become upside down in the way people think

In crimes there is no pity now for the victims it has all become a role of pity the perpetrator

she was a women of great faith…the simple bible believing kind ,I think…Her novels always dealt with crime, but the criminal was never turned into a hero

I think this is so pervasive now in our society…It is fashionable to look ones nose down at faith and morals as if they smelled bad

Laws once used to protect the innocent and the helpless, until people were told they had a right to choose murder of the innocent to fulfill themselves

Mary gave us a better example and she was an unwed mother, she was homeless, and poor, and meek

 

[JReducation]

This is a bit off the track but within the same topic we are speaking of

Agatha Christie in her bio, spoke about how things had suddenly become upside down in the way people think

In crimes there is no pity now for the victims it has all become a role of pity the perpetrator

she was a women of great faith…the simple bible believing kind ,I think…Her novels always dealt with crime, but the criminal was never turned into a hero

I think this is so pervasive now in our society…It is fashionable to look ones nose down at faith and morals as if they smelled bad

Laws once used to protect the innocent and the helpless, until people were told they had a right to choose murder of the innocent to fulfill themselves

Mary gave us a better example and she was an unwed mother, she was homeless, and poor, and meek

All the above is true. But let’s polish the statement on Mary.

The Blessed Mother was pregnant when she married Joseph. She was not an unwed mother. Jesus was born afterward.

She was never homeless. Tradition tells us that Joseph and Mary were part of the middle class of their time. Joseph was a carpenter. But the word carpenter has been added in the modern translations. Actually, he was an artisan. They didn’t just make cabinets. They built houses and other great works of art in wood. They were not poor. We have taken Luke’s narrative of Jesus birth in the stable out of context. Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem for the census. The house was full and there was no private place for her to give birth, so she retired to the stable where she had privacy. But if we look at the scriptures very carefully we find several signs that they were not poor as we think.

1. The Wise Men arrive and enter the house. The Holy Family was not homeless.
2. They migrate to Egypt. You had to pay a fare to be taken by caravan. You would not travel any other way than by Carivan. It was too dangerous.
3. When Jesus is 12 they travel to Jerusalem, again by Caravan.
4. When Jesus meets the apostles they recognize him as the “son of the carpenter”. They do not see him as a bastard child or a poor man. He was a carpenter’s son.
5. At the foot of the cross the soldiers gamble for his tunice which is woven in one piece. It is seamless. This was a form of art in those days. Very few people knew how to do this. That’s what made the tunic of great value.

When we speak of the poverty of the Holy Family we’re speaking about the rejection and persecution that they confronted when Jesus was born. We’re speaking of Jesus’ ministry, which is a ministry among the sinful, sick and poor. We’re speaking of Jesus’ death, which was a death that only the inhuman were subjected to. In Roman law, the Jews were not considered human. Jesus is stripped of his clothing and his human rights. Therefore, he is poor.

They certainly were not rich by any means. They were working class people. The proof is that they did not have a family plot in Jerusalem, which was customary for the wealthy of the time. They lived in Nazareth, which is still a blue collar town to this day.

Jesus did call men to give up their posessions and follow him. But this kind of poverty is voluntary, not a social disease. The poverty of Jesus, Mary and Joseph was a voluntary detachment from material things to liberate the soul to fulfill the will of God.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

All the above is true. But let’s polish the statement on Mary.

The Blessed Mother was pregnant when she married Joseph. She was not an unwed mother. Jesus was born afterward.

She was never homeless. Tradition tells us that Joseph and Mary were part of the middle class of their time. Joseph was a carpenter. But the word carpenter has been added in the modern translations. Actually, he was an artisan. They didn’t just make cabinets. They built houses and other great works of art in wood. They were not poor. We have taken Luke’s narrative of Jesus birth in the stable out of context. Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem for the census. The house was full and there was no private place for her to give birth, so she retired to the stable where she had privacy. But if we look at the scriptures very carefully we find several signs that they were not poor as we think.

1. The Wise Men arrive and enter the house. The Holy Family was not homeless.
2. They migrate to Egypt. You had to pay a fare to be taken by caravan. You would not travel any other way than by Carivan. It was too dangerous.
3. When Jesus is 12 they travel to Jerusalem, again by Caravan.
4. When Jesus meets the apostles they recognize him as the “son of the carpenter”. They do not see him as a bastard child or a poor man. He was a carpenter’s son.
5. At the foot of the cross the soldiers gamble for his tunice which is woven in one piece. It is seamless. This was a form of art in those days. Very few people knew how to do this. That’s what made the tunic of great value.

When we speak of the poverty of the Holy Family we’re speaking about the rejection and persecution that they confronted when Jesus was born. We’re speaking of Jesus’ ministry, which is a ministry among the sinful, sick and poor. We’re speaking of Jesus’ death, which was a death that only the inhuman were subjected to. In Roman law, the Jews were not considered human. Jesus is stripped of his clothing and his human rights. Therefore, he is poor.

They certainly were not rich by any means. They were working class people. The proof is that they did not have a family plot in Jerusalem, which was customary for the wealthy of the time. They lived in Nazareth, which is still a blue collar town to this day.

Jesus did call men to give up their posessions and follow him. But this kind of poverty is voluntary, not a social disease. The poverty of Jesus, Mary and Joseph was a voluntary detachment from material things to liberate the soul to fulfill the will of God.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That is interesting and I really didn’t know it

I have read much about their lowly estate including they only had the smallest offering of 2 turtle doves for the temple offering

I think the homelessness refereed to the fact they had no home in Bethlehem but were force to a stable for temporary lodgings

I guess Mary and Joseph were wed at betrothal according to Jewish custom? But lived apart and Jesus was born to married parents

I have heard they lived off of the gifts of the wise-men while in Egypt…

I find all of the things you tell us so fascinating

I always wish the gospels told us more…there are so many things it would be fun to know about…like what happened between the birth and the finding in the temple

 

[maggiemay2u]

I am of the belief that to understand the relationship between faith and civil duty one has to have good formation and a balanced personality. I don’t know the formation of either of these two reporters or their personality, but from what I have seen, I can extrapolate that they are lacking something.

In our Franciscan family we have had several men and women who had a very balanced approach to faith and civic duty: Thomas More, Joan of Arc, Louis King of France and Elizabeth of Hungary to name a few. For anyone who struggles reconciling the two, these are worthwhile saints to study. They were salt in their time and place. Thomas More said it best when he was sentenced: “I am a loyal servant of the King and a faithful son of the Church.”
)

Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
Do we really expect the media to understand that faith and civic duty are not mutually exclusive?

With all due respect. You asked a specific question. I answered specifically. I appreciate the historical perspective, I have used More, Becket, St Andrew Dung Lac, and Catherine of Alexandria repeatedly regarding this topic. Each gave his or her life rather than betray their God to political pressure.

Re: Dowd and Matthews. Both are cradle Catholics, and lay claim knowledge of the Church and refer to, their respective prestigious Catholic educations. Both claim to have experience as investigative journalists. Even Jimmy Olsen could have figured out how to google the CCC or made a quick call to the DC Diocesan office for guidance on church teaching.

People rise or fall to the level of expectation. I expect the media, especially those who tout their knowledge of the Catholic religion, to understand that faith and civic duty are not mutually exclusive.

 

[JReducation]

With all due respect. You asked a specific question. I answered specifically. I appreciate the historical perspective, I have used More, Becket, St Andrew Dung Lac, and Catherine of Alexandria repeatedly regarding this topic. Each gave his or her life rather than betray their God to political pressure.

Re: Dowd and Matthews. Both are cradle Catholics, and lay claim knowledge of the Church and refer to, their respective prestigious Catholic educations. Both claim to have experience as investigative journalists. Even Jimmy Olsen could have figured out how to google the CCC or made a quick call to the DC Diocesan office for guidance on church teaching.

People rise or fall to the level of expectation. I expect the media, especially those who tout their knowledge of the Catholic religion, to understand that faith and civic duty are not mutually exclusive.

I believe that there are some people who just don’t get it and then there are those who may get it, but have an agenda of their own.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF