Toddler at Daily Mass

[BlyssfulDreamer]

IslandOak, I am really saddened by the lack of charity in your post. I don’t know if you have any children of your own or not, but to say that a young mother “inflicts” her child’s noise on others at Mass if really inappropriate. We moms do the best we can. But young children are noisy, active, and totally unaware of their noise and activity. No amount of telling by any adult is going to change this, only time and the dawn of reason can effect it.

I must also respectfully take issue with your comments in the second paragraph. Mommies with toddlers ARE part of the ENTIRE parish. If the priest could hear your uncharitable thoughts towards the children of the parish, perhaps he would find your thoughts too distracting and would ask you to leave as well. Sitting in our pew assessing the inappropriateness of everyone else’s behavior is not what the Mass is about.

We are all called to be participants in the sacrifice of the Mass. Whether the noise is coming out of our mouths, or is just spinning around in our mind’s judgments of our neighbor, God welcomes us. And we should charitably do the same with each other.

Gertie the Grumpy

I wholeheartedly agree with IslandOak. The mother knows her child and knew that nap time was coming up and I remember my children when they were young and I would have hesitated taking them to Mass close to naptime when they had a bad night before. To me…it is common sense…for the child who is miserable and for those who are the “beneficiaries” of what the child is going to do…cry and fuss. I don’t think anyone should be told to “take them out.”…I think that should be done without being told.

A young mother with her newborn was at daily Mass yesterday and when baby started fussing…mom got up and walked her around the back of the church. I had no problem with that…baby was happy…we could concentrate on the Mass and it didn’t prove a problem at all. Yes…mommies with toddlers are part of the parish…but there is such a thing as consideration for others. I love children…have 2 adult children and an autistic grandson…and when it appears the chances are not good for the toddler being able to make it through Mass without a meltdown…maybe it would be good for ALL concerned to wait till another time…such a time as when the little toddler is better rested.

:heart:Blyss

 

[kamz]

Ah - see, it should never be “more fun” to be taken out of Church when they are being disruptive. They need to acquire not only the fear of God, but also the fear of Mom.

Oh, I agree with you on that but somehow my almost 4 yr old can be taken to the bathroom for a swat and still go back into church and act up again, be taken out for another swat and go back in and do it again and on and on, those are the times when I usually drive home bawling and asking God to help me make it

 

[Island_Oak]

Oh, I agree with you on that but somehow my almost 4 yr old can be taken to the bathroom for a swat and still go back into church and act up again, be taken out for another swat and go back in and do it again and on and on, those are the times when I usually drive home bawling and asking God to help me make it

I can’t imagine anything positive coming from an experience like the one described above, for adult or child. If this is what it takes to get one’s toddler through mass, my common sense would tell me the child is not yet ready and it might be far healthier for everyone to just stay home.

 

[kamz]

I can’t imagine anything positive coming from an experience like the one described above, for adult or child. If this is what it takes to get one’s toddler through mass, my common sense would tell me the child is not yet ready and it might be far healthier for everyone to just stay home.

Well, if I had that attitude I don’t know if I would ever go to church I am so blessed to live in a small rural MN town and our parish is probalby under 1000 members, we have an amazing Priest who I have gotten to know so well through our mothers bible study and he has made it so clear to us moms that he wants us at Mass.

When I had my first two kids in 1993 and 1995 I had no help and church was so overwhelming for me that I started going to my husbands church with him (Lutheran) they had the nursery and it just seemed more child friendly and it was then I left the Catholic church for 4 yrs… I came back in 1998 and had two more kids… Mass may be difficult but I know I get the graces from Mass and I get the community of being with people who believe as I do, if I stay home I seperate myself from my other family and that is my church family.

I’m so lucky to have a parish that encourages the mom’s and dad’s to take the kids out if that works for mom and dad or keep the kids in the Mass if that works best… I have never felt that I need to take my kids out or I am bothering someone, in fact, when I take my son out I have been told after Mass by other members to make him stick it out and that I don’t need to feel worried that I’m bothering anyone.

I am my worst enemy, I don’t like my son acting up and I have too many expectations on him to be really good so when he is not good, I have set myself up to fail and I’m upset.

But, I am so blessed with my parish, so very blessed and I wish more could have this too

 

[Katie1723]

As I read thru these posts, I can’t help think of the time I took my not yet 2 y/o grand daughter to Mass with me. I spent the entire Mass in the back of the church so as not to disturb others.
For me, I enjoy the quiet in church, it is “comforting”. It is a bit bothersome when I hear cell phones ringing, people talking and children crying. A constantly crying child is a distraction, I don’t care what anyone says. Some can handle those distractions better than others. I suppose I am not one of them.
Kathy

 

[love4mary]

There is a note from our priest on the Nursury Room door.

“Jesus Loves your children and would miss them if they were not as Mass”

 

[jrabs]

At our parish, because the goal is to create a space of quiet peace and meditation, we do ask parents to take their kids out to the Narthex when they are acting out, since so many people come to our parish out of the fuss, noise and rush of the city - it’s nice for them to be able to find some peace and quiet, so our goal is to maintain this.

I am quite sure that your priest didn’t mean that you should go home - I would understand “take the child out” to mean out to the Narthex to quiet the child, and then right back in again when the child is calmed down.

I agree with this entire post. As a parent, and attendee of daily mass, I understand both sides. Jesus does love the little children to come. But all other parishioners need to be able to focus as well. You and your child are not the only ones striving to get graces at daily mass.

Parents of young ones should also not try and be so offended at the request of getting up and leaving for a quick spell when a child gets ornery and fidgety.

Please clarify with your priest - though I will bet he just meant that a walk about to the hallway or where ever parent take crying children.

And blessed be the parents of fidgety kids.

 

[jrabs]

There is a note from our priest on the Nursury Room door.

“Jesus Loves your children and would miss them if they were not as Mass”

I don’t understand this quote. No one here has said otherwise.
It’s just that there are many people at church to consider as well, and not just one parent with an ornery child.

 

[love4mary]

jrabs,our priest was making the point that children cannot learn how to behave in Mass if they do not attend.

I attend Mass that most of the children do, and yes, they fuss and cry and talk and play. But ya know what? Jesus preached and taught throughout His ministry with fussy children and I fail to read anywhere in scripture where He asked them to be removed because they were a distraction.

 

[jrabs]

jrabs,our priest was making the point that children cannot learn how to behave in Mass if they do not attend.

I fail to read anywhere in scripture where He asked them to be removed because they were a distraction.

See, I have to repeat myself. Who here is advocating not bringing the children to church? Let’s not fixate on a non- issue.

Indeed ,Jesus did not say take thou est ornery child out. But common courtesy is also applicable.

Who here knows what people did back in Jesus’ time with cranky children. No where is it published that people did not politely remove themselves from the crowds to settle their children.

Though not an expert on the subject, didn’t the women often stay home with the children and the men listen to the preaching?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a priest asking to take a cranky child out until they are more settled. That does not mean that priest does not love children or that parent, but he does need to keep everyone’s needs in check.

It’s really nothing for a parent to take offense over.

 

[Potato1]

I can see it now… Mary trying to quiet a fussy Jesus being asked by the high priests to leave. Only thirty some odd years later for Jesus to come back, through the money changers out, admonishing elders of the faith to stop being so selfish and see what is really happening before them.

The problem might also have been the daily mass aspect. During lent many people start going to Daily Mass that don’t normaly go. The Mass probably isnt used to kids and probably has a ambiance that the priest and others have come to enjoy and expect. This doesnt excuse thier actions but maybe is a frame of refrence.

It is sad to me that kids are seen as a distraction, an anoyance and as one previous poster implied… on par with cell phones in church. I wonder what parish life was back before sound wired “cry rooms” 2.5 kids per family, and 60 percent of Catholics using birth control. Where could people meditate and “center themselves.” Mass is not about meditaion, if you can achieve that there then good for you but it is just that MASS a mass of people CELEBRATING. That said parent should TRY to quiet children and there should be reverence, But to me a silent parish is one that will be closed soon. Try private prayer time and adoration if you want to “yoga out” before mass. It is one thing to be courtious and remove a toddler that is fussy I do that with my daughter. But if I was able to ask every person who annoyed me disstracted me or just plain breathed wrong to leave mass I would be worsiping alone.

I pray for parents of fussy children that they may have wisdom, patience and knowledge to make it though those embarassing times.

 

[jrabs]

I pray for parents of fussy children that they may have wisdom, patience and knowledge to make it though those embarassing times.

Amen , and the wisdom to not take offense where none is intended.

 

[Island_Oak]

Amen , and the wisdom to not take offense where none is intended.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[jack_hawkins]

I find the constant banging of the kneelers, coughing, shuffling, and yes babies crying totally takes away from the reverence - and no I don’t think Jesus’ comments applied to the mass.

CoI: I have no children

 

[Potato1]

I find the constant banging of the kneelers, coughing, shuffling, and yes babies crying totally takes away from the reverence - and no I don’t think Jesus’ comments applied to the mass.

CoI: I have no children

Coughing?? wow, I doubt anyone really could state that coughing is irreverent in Mass, distracting, yes. irreverent I dont think so. Perhaps you didn’t mean irreverent?
Reverence means honor and respect mixed with love and awe. Natural, involuntary white noise is not irreverent. If it is involuntary or necessary how could it be?

 

[jack_hawkins]

it is useful when quoting someone to quote them accurately - otherwise any attempts at discussion become bogged down
perhaps you should read what I posted again more carefully
it avoids problems:thumbsup:
PS when I cough, it isn’t white noise

 

[jmcrae]

I can see it now… Mary trying to quiet a fussy Jesus being asked by the high priests to leave.

Mary was never anywhere near the High Priests. The women’s court was more than 40 feet away from the Holy of Holies. Between them was a wall, and then the men’s court, and then another wall, and then the High Priests.

When they went to the Synagogue, Mary would have been standing at the back with Jesus. The men sat at the front.

I also seriously doubt that Jesus ever misbehaved either at Temple or at Synagogue - we are taught that He was without sin.

The problem might also have been the daily mass aspect. During lent many people start going to Daily Mass that don’t normaly go. The Mass probably isnt used to kids and probably has a ambiance that the priest and others have come to enjoy and expect. This doesnt excuse thier actions but maybe is a frame of refrence.

At my parish we are very used to kids - many of our daily Mass attenders bring their kids all the time, and these kids are very well behaved, for the most part. But sometimes we do get parents who aren’t used to bringing their kids to Mass, and/or haven’t taken the time at home to do a dry run through the Mass with the children to let them know what to expect, and in those cases, we do get kids who are somehow under the impression that they are at PlayLand, screaming, shrieking, running around, putting their hands in the candles, and crashing into the statues, etc. - it’s these parents that our pastor asks to take their kids out for a few moments, to get them settled down.

It is sad to me that kids are seen as a distraction, an anoyance and as one previous poster implied… on par with cell phones in church. I wonder what parish life was back before sound wired “cry rooms” 2.5 kids per family, and 60 percent of Catholics using birth control. Where could people meditate and “center themselves.”

Kids back then were much better trained than they are today. Mom was home with them all day, and had plenty of time to do run-throughs of not only the Mass but of every other situation that they might encounter, as well, to train them in gradual stages on how to behave in public.

I wasn’t brought up Catholic, but I do remember “playing school” and “playing library” with my Mom before going out to experience the real thing.

Nobody is asking kids to leave because they “breathe wrong” - we’re talking here about the non-stop screamers, and the ones who are running around so hard that they are liable to injure themselves or else break something. No one is distracted by kids if they are whispering a bit, or fidgeting a bit.

 

[Potato1]

To Jack: I am sorry if I misread you.
If you want to continue discussing the nuances of coughing in the mass we should start a new thread.

To the OP:
I Sympethize with you and also with those who need to have a quiet time. It seems even in Mass our human differences want us to control, be offended by, distract or come to dislike others. But as a parent it is your resposibility to take the brunt of it for your child. Perhaps you were too sensitive and perhaps the priest was out of line. Either way Mass is about Jesus, he instituted it and what He says applies to it.

 

[Potato1]

Mary was never anywhere near the High Priests. The women’s court was more than 40 feet away from the Holy of Holies. Between them was a wall, and then the men’s court, and then another wall, and then the High Priests.

When they went to the Synagogue, Mary would have been standing at the back with Jesus. The men sat at the front.

I also seriously doubt that Jesus ever misbehaved either at Temple or at Synagogue - we are taught that He was without sin.

At my parish we are very used to kids - many of our daily Mass attenders bring their kids all the time, and these kids are very well behaved, for the most part. But sometimes we do get parents who aren’t used to bringing their kids to Mass, and/or haven’t taken the time at home to do a dry run through the Mass with the children to let them know what to expect, and in those cases, we do get kids who are somehow under the impression that they are at PlayLand, screaming, shrieking, running around, putting their hands in the candles, and crashing into the statues, etc. - it’s these parents that our pastor asks to take their kids out for a few moments, to get them settled down.

Kids back then were much better trained than they are today. Mom was home with them all day, and had plenty of time to do run-throughs of not only the Mass but of every other situation that they might encounter, as well, to train them in gradual stages on how to behave in public.

I wasn’t brought up Catholic, but I do remember “playing school” and “playing library” with my Mom before going out to experience the real thing.

Nobody is asking kids to leave because they “breathe wrong” - we’re talking here about the non-stop screamers, and the ones who are running around so hard that they are liable to injure themselves or else break something. No one is distracted by kids if they are whispering a bit, or fidgeting a bit.

I agree with most of what you said. Kids do need to be trained. But a dry run through of Mass for a two year old is a little odd. The OP was not talking about non stop screamers. Parenting of Children in Mass now there is a subject you and I would see eye to eye on!

 

[Potato1]

Mary was never anywhere near the High Priests. The women’s court was more than 40 feet away from the Holy of Holies. Between them was a wall, and then the men’s court, and then another wall, and then the High Priests.

When they went to the Synagogue, Mary would have been standing at the back with Jesus. The men sat at the front.

I also seriously doubt that Jesus ever misbehaved either at Temple or at Synagogue - we are taught that He was without sin.

.

Surely you are not suggesting women should only sit in the back of the Church? I did not submit this as an acurate reflection of Jesus’s real childhood but only as a tool to reflect on. A crying or even screaming toddler in Temple or synagogue is not a sin. We are taught that you must be at the age of reason and surely Jesus Cried, we are taught that he cried as an adult.