Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

[Paxvobis]

Portrait is only known on debates for his excessive eloquence in place of substance. You’ll find that I had a response to it. To say that physical features are different from clothing is laughable. They are both still part of a person’s overall appearance.

Portrait had references from Sacred Scripture to back up his point of view. You had but one misinterpreted and out of context verse.

You will find that the Church as whole never specifies a dress code. Writings that you think do are obviously to be read in a certain context.

Okay, the Church as a whole has never defined a dress code. But I’ve read some (or heard it in a homily) that the Pope has issued a minimum standard of dress for women.

I repeat, you will find that the CCC does not prescribe dress, just a general Catholic understanding of modesty. Just because it says it inspires one’s choice of clothing does not mean that the form of said inspiration is not up for grabs.

Catechism 2552: “Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires ones choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.”

If you don’t think that some of the styles of dress I have seen in public are not “discreet” and do not provide “evident risk of unhealthy curiosity,” than we live in two different worlds indeed.

I’m not saying that women should only wear long dresses or dress like Muslims. Pants are fine. I don’t mind if they don’t wear head coverings in Church. But come on now, some people out there do dress way too revealing. I think we all know what I’m talking about. And yes, some of it is sinful! Simple as that! I don’t mean to be condescending. But if you’re going to mount a case that the Catholic Church does not view the choice of clothing as having to do with modesty, than you’re wrong. And don’t trust me. Trust the Catechism, trust Sacred Tradition.

Anyway, in the end, I don’t think you can convince me of your view, and I don’t think I can convince you of my view. I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[JimG]

I guess I’m a little confused at the amount of heat that this subject always generates. There are some outfits that parents, for example, will not allow their daughter to wear on a date. Not many parents will take the attitude of, ‘well, just show as much of your body as you like. We rely on your date to man up and control his thoughts. He must have a pure heart no matter what you wear.’

No one would argue against the necessity of a pure heart and a pure mind. And yet the parents will not allow the daughter to wear some particular clothing on a date, no matter how highly they think of her date. Why don’t they just instruct her to wear what she wants and instruct him to purify his heart?

There are some clothes that parents will not allow their son to wear on a date, or to church, or to school. There are some clothes which are not allowed to be worn in schools by official dress codes, or in offices. (I recall quite well one female employee whose work clothing caused a constant level of near outrage in the workplace, mostly among other women. At one point she was sent home to change.)

There is some clothing that one might wear to the beach, but not shopping or dining.
There is some clothing one might wear to a cookout but not to church or visiting a hospital or a church.

It isn’t really a matter of just wear whatever you like and let the viewer take care of his or her own thoughts. It seems more a matter of common courtesy and common sense.

 

[severus68]

I guess I’m a little confused at the amount of heat that this subject always generates. There are some outfits that parents, for example, will not allow their daughter to wear on a date. Not many parents will take the attitude of, ‘well, just show as much of your body as you like. We rely on your date to man up and control his thoughts. He must have a pure heart no matter what you wear.’

No one would argue against the necessity of a pure heart and a pure mind. And yet the parents will not allow the daughter to wear some particular clothing on a date, no matter how highly they think of her date. Why don’t they just instruct her to wear what she wants and instruct him to purify his heart?

There are some clothes that parents will not allow their son to wear on a date, or to church, or to school. There are some clothes which are not allowed to be worn in schools by official dress codes, or in offices. (I recall quite well one female employee whose work clothing caused a constant level of near outrage in the workplace, mostly among other women. At one point she was sent home to change.)

There is some clothing that one might wear to the beach, but not shopping or dining.
There is some clothing one might wear to a cookout but not to church or visiting a hospital or a church.

It isn’t really a matter of just wear whatever you like and let the viewer take care of his or her own thoughts. It seems more a matter of common courtesy and common sense.

I believe the issues for some like Lost Wanderer and Walking Alone are not to judge a person by his/her dress, that modesty is about modesty of self not of clothes which is /can be superficial, that it is not right for anyone to be the arbiter of modesty for others. I agree. It is also about not blaming a woman’s clothes for the sins of others. I agree.

Your example of parents and their children is about adults making choices for non adults.

I wonder about your other example of the female employee who outraged some other female employees appears to be a case of jealously perhaps? Yes we have to comply with dress codes imposed by our employers and authorities whether or not they are right. I have always felt that the attitudes and work ethics of employees are more important than what they wear. Of course there are practical considerations like not wearing a scarf or a billowy skirt when working with machinery.

Of course it is common sense too. Why would anyone walk into their office or into a church wearing a swimsuit?

What is one to wear to a hospital? What if you had to rush your child to hospital? Would you wait to change into something you consider appropriate?

 

[JimG]

I wonder about your other example of the female employee who outraged some other female employees appears to be a case of jealously perhaps?

Well, she was a good worker. She took way too much time off though, but was productive when she was there. Her outfits would have been a real and serious problem if she had had to meet the public, but she didn’t. She brought her Victoria’s Secret catalog to work for her male coworkers to peruse. Why the outrage? For myself, I didn’t particularly care what she wore, although most of the time you could see her underwear. And I didn’t have to work directly with her. The time she was sent home was when she wore a transparent dress while wearing minimal underwear. The boss’s boss insisted that she leave.

As to what one is to wear to a hospital, I mean, as a visitor. If the employee noted above had been a visitor to a hospital wearing the same outfit, I really can’t say what would have happened.

 

[Debora123]

No offense but you need to put more thought in exactly how much fault lies in tying concepts such as ‘immodesty’/‘modesty’ with something superficial like human appearances.

Why don’t you get real? A woman’s cleavage is only a problem because you can’t put a lid on your hormones (and I’m saying this AS A GUY).

Honestly, both sides of this fashion debate are all the same. They try to make excuses for both superficiality and shallowness.

Lost Wanderer, you remind me of my husband when you speak this way.

Thank you for saying this, and for all your posts on this thread (as I have followed them). I think men like you come off as infinitely more respectful of women than those who expect us to cover ourselves to their particular standards in order to gain their respect. Thank you for being a REAL man and standing up and urging other men to take some responsibility.

 

[Edward_H]

And I am sure you adopt the identical hard line against a woman who can’t seem to keep the weight off. Who eats and eats, and makes resolutions, and eats still. Can’t master the mouth. She seeks comfort in food, as a man might seek comfort with his imagination.

And who because of her lack of self control becomes disgusting to see in public, grabbing food off of her husband’s and friend’s plate.

You still hold that person accountable, totally. No allowance, no help. You put out all kinds of fat food for her when she comes over to your house. No precautions, no forethought. No discretion.

These aren’t starkly different examples of virtue; they are various forms of self-mastery and control.

Or your child who is distractible. Who can’t control his/her attention. You don’t try to help them with their work environment…better lighting, quieter room, removing the ipod, etc. You just let them deal with their distractible nature on their own. No aid.

Or your daughter who can’t seem to stop buying things. Who spends way beyond her means and racks up credit card debt at an alarming rate. She seems to find comfort in shopping, but you, being clear about lines of responsibility, have never sat down with her and shown her how to budget, how to plan her spending, how to manage her money, how to master her wants and needs.

Heck no. You know that’s it’s her thing, her responsibility alone…and it’s up to her to deal with it like a woman.

I am sure this is how you all handle these issues of personal responsibility, as charitable, generous, understanding and patient Catholics. I am quite confident about it.

Think deeply about it.

 

[Debora123]

And I am sure you adopt the identical hard line against a woman who can’t seem to keep the weight off. Who eats and eats, and makes resolutions, and eats still. Can’t master the mouth. She seeks comfort in food, as a man might seek comfort with his imagination.

And who because of her lack of self control becomes disgusting to see in public, grabbing food off of her husband’s and friend’s plate.

You still hold that person accountable, totally. No allowance, no help. You put out all kinds of fat food for her when she comes over to your house. No precautions, no forethought. No discretion.

These aren’t starkly different examples of virtue; they are various forms of self-mastery and control.

Or your child who is distractible. Who can’t control his/her attention. You don’t try to help them with their work environment…better lighting, quieter room, removing the ipod, etc. You just let them deal with their distractible nature on their own. No aid.

Or your daughter who can’t seem to stop buying things. Who spends way beyond her means and racks up credit card debt at an alarming rate. She seems to find comfort in shopping, but you, being clear about lines of responsibility, have never sat down with her and shown her how to budget, how to plan her spending, how to manage her money, how to master her wants and needs.

Heck no. You know that’s it’s her thing, her responsibility alone…and it’s up to her to deal with it like a woman.

I am sure this how you all handle these issues, as charitable, generous, understanding and patient Catholics. I am quite confident about it.

Think deeply about it.

So here we’ve got a woman addicted to food and a girl addicted to shopping.

Should we try to help them by encouraging them to take a look inside themselves, getting to the root of their problems, and making them realize that, while we can counsel them and talk to them, it is ultimately up to THEM to fight their temptations in everyday life?

OR…

Should we just guilt everyone else in the world to change their life styles and conform to these addicts in such a way that would remove all triggers of their temptation from before their eyes?

“Help,” REAL help, doesn’t mean the latter. It means the former. Your mentality with this whole “modesty” thing and the way you’re treating the issue seems to suggest you disagree.

PS-

As is apparent on my profile album… (which btw, CAF hasn’t removed for lack of “modesty”)

I wear bikinis to the beach/pool,
Mini skirts, tank tops, shorts, and sun dresses in the summer,
High heels and make up when I go to formal events,
Gym shorts and a sports bra when I go running on hot days,
And (oh no!) I like to look attractive for myself, for my husband, and for the world.

So if you have any questions or speculations as to why I do all the above, you can ask me directly, and I would appreciate that over making false and judgmental generalizations about me.

 

[Edward_H]

So here we’ve got a woman addicted to food and a girl addicted to shopping.

Should we try to help them by encouraging them to take a look inside themselves, getting to the root of their problems, and making them realize that, while we can counsel them and talk to them, it is ultimately up to THEM to fight their temptations in everyday life?

OR…

Should we just guilt everyone else in the world to change their life styles and conform to these addicts in such a way that would remove all triggers of their temptation from before their eyes?

“Help,” REAL help, doesn’t mean the latter. It means the former. Your mentality with this whole “modesty” thing and the way you’re treating the issue seems to suggest you disagree.

I didn’t address or quote you just above, so don’t feel that I am making any generalizations about you.

Finally a sane person. Of course we help them. If you’ve read - really read - the entries you’ll find a strange world here. Some are suggesting that women have no responsibility - none - to others…not to men, not to the men’s wives, not to 12 year old boys who find themselves facing down cleavage at the Sign of Peace at Mass.

NONE.

I am not one of these persons. And I am not also one of the persons who argues that men don’t own responsibility for the custody of their eyes.

So we all need to struggle against our own weaknesses and to help others struggle. Struggle with their distractions, spending, eating, and eyeballing.

But either Wanderer or Walking will go to their clipboard and “paste in” the world “collectivist” as soon as they see my byline. It will be immediate.

 

[Elven_Maid]

Back to the original post…

*10 - Modesty reflects an understanding of who a woman truly is.
Modesty starts inside a person’s heart and mind. Who am I? Why do I exist? If a woman answers she is a beautiful daughter of God, then modesty will naturally follow.

9 - Modesty isn’t about dressing in unattractive clothes as some think it is.
There are too many options in clothing to not give modesty a try. Yes, it might not be the first thing on the rack you go shopping for, but it is worth finding clothing that brings out a woman’s beauty without revealing too much.

8 - Modesty attracts the kind of guys you ought to want to attract.
If a woman is afraid that she must turn a man’s eye by dressing immodestly, then she should ask herself just what kind of guy does she want to attract?

7 - Mary dressed modestly.
Truly there is no more beautiful woman who ever lived than Mary. Why wouldn’t any woman want to be more like her?

6 - It helps protect women.
A woman can still dress to be beautiful, but the mystery of a woman’s body is protected from being used. Modesty provides a needed defense against usage.

5 - It sets a good example for others.
Young girls and teens need good examples of beautiful women who are modest. The attacks of immodest are Legion and we need a good counter-example.

4 - Women are worthy of respect.
Respect can be easily lost when a woman tries to promote herself by being immodest.

3 - It helps your brothers to avoid lust.
Women would be shocked if they were to enter the head of the average modern young man in a crowded room of immodest women. This isn’t to blame an immodestly dressed woman for a man’s sin of lust. But, men today need all the help they can get to fight lust and sin. Won’t you help them?

2 - It shows true beauty.
A woman’t true beauty comes from her dignity of being made in God’s image. If any woman wants to truly reflect God’s beauty, it starts with modesty.

1 - It is a virtue.
Modesty is a virtue that helps control behavior so we do not excite the sexuality of another. It is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit. All of us could use more virtue in our lives.*

I believe these reasons are valid.

 

[Edward_H]

Back to the original post…

*10 - Modesty reflects an understanding of who a woman truly is.
Modesty starts inside a person’s heart and mind. Who am I? Why do I exist? If a woman answers she is a beautiful daughter of God, then modesty will naturally follow.

9 - Modesty isn’t about dressing in unattractive clothes as some think it is.
There are too many options in clothing to not give modesty a try. Yes, it might not be the first thing on the rack you go shopping for, but it is worth finding clothing that brings out a woman’s beauty without revealing too much.

8 - Modesty attracts the kind of guys you ought to want to attract.
If a woman is afraid that she must turn a man’s eye by dressing immodestly, then she should ask herself just what kind of guy does she want to attract?

7 - Mary dressed modestly.
Truly there is no more beautiful woman who ever lived than Mary. Why wouldn’t any woman want to be more like her?

6 - It helps protect women.
A woman can still dress to be beautiful, but the mystery of a woman’s body is protected from being used. Modesty provides a needed defense against usage.

5 - It sets a good example for others.
Young girls and teens need good examples of beautiful women who are modest. The attacks of immodest are Legion and we need a good counter-example.

4 - Women are worthy of respect.
Respect can be easily lost when a woman tries to promote herself by being immodest.

3 - It helps your brothers to avoid lust.
Women would be shocked if they were to enter the head of the average modern young man in a crowded room of immodest women. This isn’t to blame an immodestly dressed woman for a man’s sin of lust. But, men today need all the help they can get to fight lust and sin. Won’t you help them?

2 - It shows true beauty.
A woman’t true beauty comes from her dignity of being made in God’s image. If any woman wants to truly reflect God’s beauty, it starts with modesty.

1 - It is a virtue.
Modesty is a virtue that helps control behavior so we do not excite the sexuality of another. It is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit. All of us could use more virtue in our lives.*

I believe these reasons are valid.

Groundhog Day?

 

[Walking_Home]

Lost Wanderer, you remind me of my husband when you speak this way.

Thank you for saying this, and for all your posts on this thread (as I have followed them).** I think men like you come off as infinitely more respectful of women than those who expect us to cover ourselves to their particular standards** in order to gain their respect. Thank you for being a REAL man and standing up and urging other men to take some responsibility.

---

Agree 100 %. So glad you found a good man. Don’t know if Lost Wanderer is married or not – but seems to me – he is the kind of man – who would make a good husband.

One thing for sure – I will be advice my own – that if they end up dating a “religious modesty fanatic” — drop him like a hot potato.

 

[Debora123]

I didn’t address or quote you just above, so don’t feel that I am making any generalizations about you.

Finally a sane person. Of course we help them. If you’ve read - really read - the entries you’ll find a strange world here. Some are suggesting that women have no responsibility - none - to others…not to men, not to the men’s wives, not to 12 year old boys who find themselves facing down cleavage at the Sign of Peace at Mass.

NONE.

I am not one of these persons. And I am not also one of the persons who argues that men don’t own responsibility for the custody of their eyes.

So we all need to struggle against our own weaknesses and to help others struggle. Struggle with their distractions, spending, eating, and eyeballing.

But either Wanderer or Walking will go to their clipboard and “paste in” the world “collectivist” as soon as they see my byline. It will be immediate.

The things is, Wanderer and Walking don’t think that following a strict standard of dress constitutes as “helping,” because it does nothing to get to the root of a man’s problem, and everything to just mask it.

Wanderer said so himself a few pages back that the charitable thing to do would be to teach these men about human dignity, and to respect everyone regardless of what they wear or look like.

Take the muslim religion for example. A lot of their women cover themselves from head to foot - literally. On some of them, not even the hair on their heads is exposed… not even the eyes!

…And all this in the name of “helping men not lust.” As Catholics, are we really that far off when we use this same mentality and tell women they cannot wear 2 piece bathing suits to the beach and they cannot wear shorts on a hot day? Because it really IS the exact same mentality.

What does it accomplish? Does it make those men stronger? More pure? If so, HOW??

How does this help them learn to keep their hormones in check and become pure of heart?

We live in a society where porn is everywhere. If men are coddled and don’t learn to fight through temptations and respect women from all walks of life, do you really think they’ll have the strength to say no to free internet porn in the convenience of their own homes?

With that being said, yes, of course I think that men who have serious struggles should seek help and be received with open arms. But the RIGHT type of help. Help that is aimed at purifying the HEART by examining themselves… examining and fixing the root of the problem.

Not “help” by making the rest of the world conform by removing from the general public all triggers of someone else’s temptations.

 

[Walking_Home]

The things is, Wanderer and Walking don’t think that following a strict standard of dress constitutes as “helping,” because it does nothing to get to the root of a man’s problem, and everything to just mask it.

Wanderer said so himself a few pages back that the charitable thing to do would be to teach these men about human dignity, and to respect everyone regardless of what they wear or look like.

Take the muslim religion for example. A lot of their women cover themselves from head to foot - literally. On some of them, not even the hair on their heads is exposed… not even the eyes!

…And all this in the name of “helping men not lust.” As Catholics, are we really that far off when we use this same mentality and tell women they cannot wear 2 piece bathing suits to the beach and they cannot wear shorts on a hot day? Because it really IS the exact same mentality.

What does it accomplish? Does it make those men stronger? More pure? If so, HOW??

How does this help them learn to keep their hormones in check and become pure of heart?

We live in a society where porn is everywhere. If men are coddled and don’t learn to fight through temptations and respect women from all walks of life, do you really think they’ll have the strength to say no to free internet porn in the convenience of their own homes?

With that being said, yes, of course I think that men who have serious struggles should seek help and be received with open arms. But the RIGHT type of help. Help that is aimed at purifying the HEART by examining themselves… examining and fixing the root of the problem.

Not “help” by making the rest of the world conform by removing from the general public all triggers of someone else’s temptations.

---

Well said Debra123. —

 

[acarlson]

When it comes to modesty, I think both men and women need to work on it. Women really have no reason to show as much skin as they do sometimes - besides to attract someone sexually - and men need to learn to take control of their own thoughts. We can’t ask men to change their thoughts/behaviors with no help from women, and we can’t ask women to cover up because men are incorrigible. I think of it like how one would treat a recovering alcoholic. Do you just remove all the liquor without treating the underlying psychological/emotional problems that led to it in the first place? Do you expect the person to change themselves successfully and become masters over their illness while they’re locked in a liquor store?

Of course not!

:twocents:

 

[Walking_Home]

When it comes to modesty, I think both men and women need to work on it. Women really have no reason to show as much skin as they do sometimes - **besides to attract someone sexually **- and men need to learn to take control of their own thoughts. We can’t ask men to change their thoughts/behaviors with no help from women, and we can’t ask women to cover up because men are incorrigible. I think of it like how one would treat a recovering alcoholic. Do you just remove all the liquor without treating the underlying psychological/emotional problems that led to it in the first place? Do you expect the person to change themselves successfully and become masters over their illness while they’re locked in a liquor store?

Of course not!

:twocents:

---

How do you know that. How do you know – that a women wears a mini-skirt and/or a two piece swim suit — does it to “attract someone sexually”. Have I missed out on this “special knowledge” – “the ability to see the interior of a person” – that some of you apparently now have.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Portrait had references from Sacred Scripture to back up his point of view. You had but one misinterpreted and out of context verse.

Out of context? He himself admitted the verse chastised the superficiality of putting forth one’s physical features over the inner being of a person. His only excuse is that it’s not the same as a person’s clothing.

If you believe him, then you’re going to believe a type of logic that labels T-Rex a dinosaur while Triceratops isn’t. Seriously, there’s no way around it.

Okay, the Church as a whole has never defined a dress code. But I’ve read some (or heard it in a homily) that the Pope has issued a minimum standard of dress for women.

No. Such dress codes are specified for the formality of a certain context. (And again, the significance of context is a reality you continue to ignore).

If you don’t think that some of the styles of dress I have seen in public are not “discreet” and do not provide “evident risk of unhealthy curiosity,” than we live in two different worlds indeed.

Indeed. Let me list some examples:

Nun’s attire.
Burkas.
Friar’s robes.
Monk’s robes.
A turban.

All of these outfits are indiscreet, look remarkably out of place in urban society, and draw an unhealthy curiosity from ones who assume (because of their shallow tendencies) the strangeness of their representative religions.

So answer me this, how much longer will you depend on other people’s appearances to solve this particular issue of human foolishness?

If you ask me, it seems much more simpler and reasonable to tell people not to judge people by their looks.

I’m not saying that women should only wear long dresses or dress like Muslims. Pants are fine. I don’t mind if they don’t wear head coverings in Church. But come on now, some people out there do dress way too revealing. I think we all know what I’m talking about.

Again, that depends on the context (and a number of other factors that reach a point that appearances become minor). Honestly, sit down and think.

Say for instance, I drew a man in his underwear. The rest of the page is blank. Just a man standing there in his underwear. Now, no matter how many times you ask yourself, the only thing you can say about the picture is that it’s of a man in his underwear. You can’t say he’s being indecent, he’s just standing there in a blank background. You can’t say he’s posing for something because there’s nothing in the background to indicate that either.

Now suppose I decide to put a background behind him. If I chose a dark street corner, your perception would automatically change. For someone like you, you would think he’s up to no good.

On the other hand, if he’s in his room, then you can safely assume that he’s either changing or gotten out of bed.

However, let’s pause for a moment. Which one really shaped our perception, the clothes or the context? It’s the context isn’t it? Therefore, when you say some people dress “immodestly”, keep in mind of your surroundings.

In our age, with the changes we have in fashion, people who decry immodest trends always turn out to be people who can’t put a lid on their hormones even though others have grown accustomed (weary even) of something they now see every day.

That’s how fickle cultural contexts are and that is why I’ve stopped putting faith in what my eyes perceive about a person’s looks. You yourself admitted that you can never tell just by looking. Therefore, why keep looking?

Trust the Catechism, trust Sacred Tradition.

Of course I trust the Catechism. It’s the shallow way people interpret its concept of modesty that I don’t trust.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

But either Wanderer or Walking will go to their clipboard and “paste in” the world “collectivist” as soon as they see my byline. It will be immediate.

Because it is collectivist. Self-control of one’s eyes is within the realm of the individual.

Furthermore, it is contrary to true human nature to place such excess value in what the eyes see. It is not an accident. It is not the responsibility of others. Period.

You might as well say I should’ve dressed like Justin Bieber so as to aid my nerd-bashing “fellow brothers and sisters”.

Seriously just say it. Your logic already has anyways.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lost Wanderer, you remind me of my husband when you speak this way.

Thank you for saying this, and for all your posts on this thread (as I have followed them). I think men like you come off as infinitely more respectful of women than those who expect us to cover ourselves to their particular standards in order to gain their respect. Thank you for being a REAL man and standing up and urging other men to take some responsibility.

Meh, I just see women in the same way I see men. We are all human beings. It takes a lot more than looks to get a hold of my attention.

If I asked where the nearest comic book shop in your town is and you politely point me in the right direction, I would not care if you were in a nun’s garb or dressed in goth leather. I will still say, “Thank you.”

On the other hand, if someone else were to reply that I was going to hell for my little comic book hobby, it wouldn’t matter if they dressed in a nice suit or dressed like trailer park trash. I would not like that person.

Agree 100 %. So glad you found a good man. Don’t know if Lost Wanderer is married or not – but seems to me – he is the kind of man – who would make a good husband.

Sadly, I’m not.
As a matter of fact, my lack of interests in people’s looks actually gave me a reputation for being the pickiest bachelor. I’m like a last level boss for matchmakers.

I find it cynically amusing really. When you throw out much of the importance held by looks, plenty of people around you suddenly start running out of advice.

Truth be told, I’m still just another young adult dude who’s gonna end up fresh out of college. To be honest, I really have to say that I don’t do this because I wanna be a saint or anything.

I’m just a guy who tries to make sense of it all. I mean, I’ve had a history of being picked on because of what I looked like. That experience will teach anyone how stupid it is to let looks dictate what you are to believe.

 

[severus68]

When it comes to modesty, I think both men and women need to work on it. Women really have no reason to show as much skin as they do sometimes - besides to attract someone sexually - and men need to learn to take control of their own thoughts. We can’t ask men to change their thoughts/behaviors with no help from women, and we can’t ask women to cover up because men are incorrigible. I think of it like how one would treat a recovering alcoholic. Do you just remove all the liquor without treating the underlying psychological/emotional problems that led to it in the first place? Do you expect the person to change themselves successfully and become masters over their illness while they’re locked in a liquor store?

Of course not!

:twocents:

Aren’t you then saying men have some sort of emotional/mental weakness that needs treatment. Isn’t that rather insulting to men and giving some an excuse for inappropriate behaviour?

 

[severus68]

Back to the original post…

*10 - Modesty reflects an understanding of who a woman truly is.
Modesty starts inside a person’s heart and mind. Who am I? Why do I exist? If a woman answers she is a beautiful daughter of God, then modesty will naturally follow.

9 - Modesty isn’t about dressing in unattractive clothes as some think it is.
There are too many options in clothing to not give modesty a try. Yes, it might not be the first thing on the rack you go shopping for, but it is worth finding clothing that brings out a woman’s beauty without revealing too much.

8 - Modesty attracts the kind of guys you ought to want to attract.
If a woman is afraid that she must turn a man’s eye by dressing immodestly, then she should ask herself just what kind of guy does she want to attract?

7 - Mary dressed modestly.
Truly there is no more beautiful woman who ever lived than Mary. Why wouldn’t any woman want to be more like her?

6 - It helps protect women.
A woman can still dress to be beautiful, but the mystery of a woman’s body is protected from being used. Modesty provides a needed defense against usage.

5 - It sets a good example for others.
Young girls and teens need good examples of beautiful women who are modest. The attacks of immodest are Legion and we need a good counter-example.

4 - Women are worthy of respect.
Respect can be easily lost when a woman tries to promote herself by being immodest.

3 - It helps your brothers to avoid lust.
Women would be shocked if they were to enter the head of the average modern young man in a crowded room of immodest women. This isn’t to blame an immodestly dressed woman for a man’s sin of lust. But, men today need all the help they can get to fight lust and sin. Won’t you help them?

2 - It shows true beauty.
A woman’t true beauty comes from her dignity of being made in God’s image. If any woman wants to truly reflect God’s beauty, it starts with modesty.

1 - It is a virtue.
Modesty is a virtue that helps control behavior so we do not excite the sexuality of another. It is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit. All of us could use more virtue in our lives.*

I believe these reasons are valid.

Why not instead a list with the heading " Ten reasons for a person to treat another with dignity, compassion and charity"?