Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

[Catholic41506]

Dressed appropriately to what, YOUR standards? Bc as we have already discussed, the standard of the Church is that of culture’s when it comes to dress.

And that is twisting the Catechism to suite your standards.

 

[Debora123]

They are my sisters and I would die for each one of them. However, I cannot hide the truth from them or I do them a greater disservice.

What is the truth? That they are, as you called them, trash? That they are skanks for wearing shorts on a summer day?

Actually, the truth is only God can judge. Especially on something that isn’t even church doctrine.

 

[Catholic41506]

Sister Lucia, who was one of the children who witnessed our Blessed Lady at Fatima, wrote this of modest Christian clothing:

“Those who appear indecently dressed are an incentive to sin, and so are responsible not only for their sins, but also for those that others may commit because of them. Reflect that fashion, if it is indecent – and we see that the world unfortunately follows it as if it were the law – is a trick of the devil, a clever trap in which the devil catches souls.”

Modest women’s clothing, Sister Lucia writes, is about Christian witness:

“Modest clothing with which we must cover ourselves is a distinguishing mark setting us us apart in the stream of immorality and enabling us to be, for the world, true witnesses to Christ.”

Bishop John Yanta of Amarillo, Texas, published a pastoral letter on modest women’s clothing for Catholics three years ago. He wrote:

“Yes, we can help the devil in many ways including the way we dress. In the Act of Contrition we promise ‘to avoid the near occasion of sin’. St. Paul writes about ‘provoking another’ (Gal. 5:26).”

 

[Edward_H]

Nice but I’ve seen this comparison before which is why I skipped it. Your false comparisons are an obvious habit.

Clothes = Appearances =/= Actions (Ticking someone off. Saying something offensive. Viewing someone with lust etc.)

You miss so much. I no longer expect you follow the argument.

Each human action I cited (controlling one’s mouth whether eating too much or shouting too much; or controlling one’s eyes) involves use or misuse of the will and the control over the body.

You can’t possibly have ever taken even a high school class on moral theology.

Either interrogate the actual comparison or withhold comment. Smirking your way through is simply laziness.

 

[Debora123]

I don’t teach my son to look at women in a bad way. Women do that on their own by the way they dress and conduct themselves. His view of women is based on Our Mother. He see’s his mother covering her head and wearing modest clothing. It is what he has grown up with.
Its funny, many men compliment my wife on her way of dress. Many have simply said “thank you”. She is respected and not looked at like a piece of meat.

Right right… bc that’s EXACTLY how people look at me. And it’s all my fault.

 

[severus68]

This entire threads makes me wonder how sad it is that such a discussion would even arise. Among nudists, and among cultures in places such as Africa and the South Pacific, immodesty would be a silly concept in the sense that it is being discussed here. I wonder how much of this focus on lust is a product of religion, or what other cultural influences are at play. Our media and advertizing certainly use it to sell products. I don’t know the exact numbers, but the majority of traffic on the internet is sex related. It all seems a bit topsey turvey to me. I started going to a nude beach when I was 16 years old, and became accustomed to nudity. It is simply a more comfortable and natural way to live, if your home of climate is temperate enough.

Tell me is there anything sexual at all at a nudist beach or camp or is it about being comfortable with your own bodies. I gather clothed people are not permitted to be there and gawk.

While I dont think nudist camps/beaches are for all (not for me), I do not see how the sight of naked bodies in such an environment with people not embarrassed and accepting of their less than toned bodies, paunches and all, would incite lust.

I do not think it is religion that gives rise to this sort of obsession but the mentality of some.

 

[Catholic41506]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church on modesty in life, and modesty in dress:

2522 “Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.”

 

[Debora123]

The Church and Her teachings are the truth, whether you want to accept them or not. God be with you.

Fortunately, the Church’s only teaching on modesty standards are that they be in line with what is culturally appropriate.

 

[Catholic41506]

Fortunately, the Church’s only teaching on modesty standards are that they be in line with what is culturally appropriate.

Not so much. This is akin to protestants taking verses from the Bible out of context and accusing Catholics of disobeying Christ by calling priests “father”.

 

[severus68]

Remember in 1921 skirts that were short enough to show the calves were themselves an innovation, but were nonetheless commonly worn by women. Two decades earlier anything above the ankle would have been socially (let alone religiously) condemned as immodest, scandalous, and doubtless tempting men to lust.

Why is it that in the first two decades of the twentieth century women were permitted to change their dress in accord with the mores of the times and don something that earlier generations would have deemed scandalous, and yet in the 2010s we are not allowed to do the same?

Exactly.

 

[Debora123]

From Wikipedia:

Catholics are expected to dress modestly,[8] The wearing of a headcovering was for the first time mandated as a universal rule for the Latin Rite by the Code of Canon Law of 1917,[9] which code was abrogated by the advent of the present (1983) Code of Canon Law,.[10] Apart from that, there have never been any “official” guidelines issued by the Catholic Church. But, from time to time the Church hierarchy, and even some popes, have given opinions on various matters; although these “guidelines” are not binding on Catholics, many tradition-minded Catholics find them persuasive.[11] Pope Pius XII stated that women should cover their upper arms and shoulders, that their skirts should cover at least as far as the knee, and the neckline should not reveal anything.[12] Another example is Giuseppe Cardinal Siri of Genoa, who stated that trousers were unacceptable dress for women.[13] Many tradition-minded Catholics have attempted to further expand on this latter standard.[14]Some Catholics have attempted to form cohesive theories of modesty. Sometimes this is from a sociological perspective,[12] while at other times it takes a more systematic, Thomistic approach, combined with the writings of the Church Fathers.[15] Approaches arguing primarily from traditional practices and traditional authorities, such as the saints, can also be found.[16]

The Church also expects men to dress modestly, but the demands are not as strict for them as for women; this is largely because men are often thought to be more inherently susceptible to sexual thoughts.

Pay special attention to the red. Those placed in authority over us have spoken over, and over, and over again about dress. Does the pope really need to declare an infallible statement that should be common sense in order to get people to listen?
If you truly believe that our Church accepts the culture of today, simply read any statement from the Holy Father over the last five years or so. We are continually fighting the culture because it is corrupt.

Wow, a wikepedia source. That is ultimately more important that the catechism or JPII.

Opinions are that, OPINIONS. Those opinions have changed based on what was appropriate at the time of those popes/saints. Opinions are not church doctrine.

Once again, “modesty” is dependent on what is appropriate in the culture we live in.

Section 2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another.

Pope John Paul II -------in Love and Responsibility:

While we are on the subject of dress and its relevance to the problem of modesty and immodesty it is worth drawing attention to the functional significance of differences in attire. There are certain objective situations in which even total nudity of the body is not immodest, since the proper function of nakedness in this context is not to provoke a reaction to the person as an object for enjoyment, and in just the same way the functions of particular forms of attire may vary. Thus, the body may be partially bared for physical labour, for bathing, or for a medical examination. If then we wish to pass a moral judgment on particular forms of dress we have to start from the particular functions which they serve. When a person uses such a form of dress in accordance with its objective function we cannot claim to see anything immodest in it, even if it involves partial nudity. Whereas the use of such a costume outside its proper context is immodest, and is inevitably felt to be so.
For example, there is nothing immodest about the use of a bathing costume at a bathing place, but to wear it in the street or while out for a walk is contrary to the dictates of modesty.

 

[Catholic41506]

2522 “Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.”

 

[Edward_H]

I know you were not addressing this to me but I would like to say that I would accomodate and modify my approach to an obviously insane person. All men are not insane and have to take responsibilty for themselves.

In some jurisdictions, a limited/partial defence to a crime is that of “irresistable impulse”. The criteria for that partial defence are very specific.

No, no and no. No man should get away, even partly, by saying he could not help it.

So your charity is limited to “an obviously insane person”

You don’t extend generosity to a person
who is sleepy, who shows laziness,
who has just had a bad day,
who can’t seem to control their eating,
whose father just died and now is not working hard at work,
who just had a miscarriage,
who had a hard upbringing
who is from an underprivileged environment.

You hold each to the same level of “no excuses” standards…despite their weaknesses and stumblings.

Or maybe not…maybe you accommodate each of these examples, but you’ve picked out men who haven’t yet controlled their eyeballing.

Is that the case…this is the one exception. If so, you need to examine your thinking more rigorously, because you’re not living in the full truth.

And apparently not struggling to figure out why.

 

[Catholic41506]

1. Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.
2. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires ones choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is descreet. (italics CM)
3. There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body… Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

From the CCC

 

[Debora123]

They don’t need to, its a lady. BIG difference.

I see I see… so a women with her knees exposed on a hot day is not a lady?? What exactly is she? Oh that’s right, as you’ve already stated, you think of her as trash. So I suppose I have nothing more to add to that.

 

[Catholic41506]

Quote from one of Padre Pio’s letters: "There are, moreover, three virtues which perfect the devout person with regard to control of his own senses. These are: modesty, continence and chastity. By the virtue of modesty the devout person governs all his exterior acts. With good reason, then, does St. Paul recommend this virtue to all and declare how necessary it is and as if this were not enough he considers that this virtue should be obvious to all. By continence the soul exercises restraint over all the senses: sight, touch, taste, smell and hearing. By chastity, a virtue which ennobles our nature and makes it similar to that of the Angels, we suppress our sensuality and detach it from forbidden pleasures.

This is the magnificent picture of Christian perfection. Happy the one who possesses all these fine virtues, all of them fruits of the Holy Spirit who dwells within him. Such a soul has nothing to fear and will shine in the world as the sun in the heavens."

Sometimes when Padre Pio refused to absolve his penitents and closed the small confessional door in their faces, the people would reproach him asking why he acted this way. “Don’t you know,” he asked, “what pain it costs me to shut the door on anyone? The Lord has forced me to do so. I do not call anyone, nor do I refuse anyone either. There is someone else who calls and refuses them. I am His useless tool.”

 

[Catholic41506]

Saint John Chrysostom

Saint John Chrysostom instructed women of all times about dress when in the fourth century he declared:

“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.”

 

[Edward_H]

Fortunately, the Church’s only teaching on modesty standards are that they be in line with what is culturally appropriate.

Apparently not. see below 2522

 

[Debora123]

And that is twisting the Catechism to suite your standards.

No, actually, it’s right here, copy and pasted exactly as it is:

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another

i’ve posted it many times. maybe you’ve missed it?

 

[Catholic41506]

Taken in the context of the rest of the Catechism, it doesnt say what you are trying to force it to say.