Nothing wrong with thinking a member of the opposite sex is physically attractive. Nothing wrong with being sexy (your quote)
So we have no way of knowing whether or not a sexual/physical attraction will lead to marriage, but every marriage/courtship starts with those forms of attraction. Either way, as those attractions are involuntary and natural, they cannot be sinful in and of themselves.
Otherwise, it is quite normal but needs to be kept at a very casual aesthetic level. I do notice, and sometimes remark, that a certain man may have an alluring body or manner. Beyond that, I need to forget him and focus on my husband. I find this pretty easy, but men generally do not find it so easy. So women help them by means of modesty.
Once again, “modesty” is subjective to cultural standards. I do not condone immodest clothes. However, if I knew someone who wore immodest clothes, I would suggest that she take a better look at what she’s wearing, not because of other MEN, but out of respect for HERSELF.
I don’t approve of the whole men men men mentality, bc if a man does not have enough discipline/self control in public, then he won’t have enough of it alone when he’s sitting in front of the computer and debating looking at porn.
Primitive cultures can’t settle a discussion like this. They are very small, insulated and stable (or were until the Western world started in with its influence). There are rules and a mindset at work there that are radically different. Exposure of the breast may have maternal implications. Traditional art is filled with images of Our Lady’s bared breast(s).
The “discussion” I am settling here is I am using them as an example that modesty depends on culture, time, place, function… etc etc. Basically I’m trying to get the point across that there is no universal, definite standard of modesty.
I think you are marginalizing the very men who should concern us the most, those who are trying to practice purity of mind and heart. Yes, they are a minority. For the Christian woman who is also trying to be pure, they are an important one. A Protestant Christian group did a survey of men about modesty and what they need. It may only be a start, but it is interesting. The vast majority of these respondents did report that a bikini is a struggle for them.
Probably because they are either deprived/sheltered from outdoorsy/warm climate life style, or they cannot distinguish the difference between sexual attraction and lust. A lot of young christian men feel arousal and feel sexual attraction for another woman and immediately perceive that to be lust, when it is not.
I come from a family of devout Catholic men and have male friends that are Christian. I’ve told them about this mentality and they think it’s ridiculous.
Btw, what is pushing the envelope? Once again, there is no set line, meaning there is no envelope to be pushed. (your quote)
As far as the statements of the Church, I can only say again that your approach (summed up above) means they have virtually no force, and could just as easily have gone unsaid. I see no reason to suppose that the Church says anything for trivial reasons, especially not in the Catechism.
Right, so then some people here need to stop pushing their own strict standards onto others and claiming that their standards are the Church’s. It is not! The Church’s standard is that we follow what is culturally accepted when it comes to modesty of dress. It is no more, and no less than that.
