Top papal aide says Vatican ‘worried’ about Trump’s refugee order

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTE

When quoting someone else, please do not change anything in the quote.

 

[JustaServant]

I think whenever Catholic officials speak on the moral acceptability of forcing Americans to pay for Muslim third world mass migration to its own nation** it needs to divulge how much of that American money is finding its way into their own coffers**.

I rarely come to this sub-forum anymore, but this cannot go unchallenged.
Anyone who has known me here on CAF for that past decade knows that I reverted back to the Church after spending years in fundamentalism.
The post quoted above is the same, almost verbatim, kind of nonsense I used to hear from the most anti-Catholic bigots. It is very troubling that Catholics are so polarized by the man sitting in the White House, that they will turn on their own Church.
It is through the Church you receive salvation, not Donald Trump. If your loyalty to your favorite political candidate means you are so at odds with the Church to such an extent you start parroting anti-Catholic bigots, there is something terribly wrong.
I literally cried when I returned to the Church. NO politician is worth that much emotional loyalty that it results attacking your own Church.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Ryan: Rhetoric surrounding Trump’s immigration ban is ‘overblown’
washingtonexaminer.com/ryan-immigration-ban-rherotic-overblown/article/2613967

“Nobody wanted green card holders to get mixed up in this, or people with special immigration visas, people in transit. So I do think there was a problem with the rollout,” Ryan said. “But the content of this is exactly what we’ve been talking about.”

He continued: “Let me just say one more thing: The rhetoric surrounding this is overblown. And that rhetoric claiming that this could be some kind of a Muslim ban hurts us and helps them [radical Islamic terror groups] with recruiting.”

Paul Ryan isn’t worried. What I am increasingly worried about is what happens to Catholics who agree with Paul Ryan. I presume we cause concern for the Vatican too. But hey, fair is fair, the Vatican is causing me concern too. I am definitely up for returning the favor.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Here are some cases of people who have come to the USA who have been suspected or implicated in terrorism:

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-kentucky-us-dozens-terrorists-country-refugees/story?id=20931131

Ahmad Khan Rahimi is originally from Afghanistan, but he and his family lived in Pakistan before coming to the USA as refugees: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_New_York_and_New_Jersey_bombings

Dahir Adan was a refugee that came via Kenya but was part of Minnesota’s Somalia according to this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Minnesota_mall_stabbing

Abdul Artan, originally from Somalia, lived in Pakistan before coming to the USA as a refugee: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Ohio_State_University_attack

Aws Mohammed Younis Al-Jayab was a Syrian refugee who came to the USA and lied to immigration authorities regarding his involvement in terrorism: counterextremism.com/extremists/aws-mohammed-younis-al-jayab

Omar Faraj Saeed Al Hardan came to the USA as a refugee from Syria: m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/18/syrian-refugee-admits-terrorist-intentions-in-blac/

There is a long list at the following link, detailing the cases of people who came to the USA as refugees. I won’t name all those but here are some: Aws Mohammed Younis Al-Jayab, Fazliddin Kurbanov, Abdurahman Yasin Daud, Mohammed Jawad, Abdinassir Mohamud Ibrahim, Abdullah Ramo Pazara, Haji Mohamed, Ahmed Nasir Taalil Mohamud, Issa Doreh, Waad, Ramadan Alwan, Mohaned Shareef Hammadi: sessions.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/news-releases?ID=FE9403D1-FBD1-4BCC-A0F9-16566A09079E

I doubt this is an exhaustive list and not all these people are from countries that are in the executive order, although most probably are from countries listed in the executive order. I’m sure I could find more names of more refugees who have been suspected or implicated in terrorism.

This isn’t very reassuring to say the least.

Time to get control of our borders! :yup:

 

[SuperLuigi]

New York is one of the most diverse if not the most diverse city on the planet. Maybe London beats it.

But it’s kind of silly to assume people are from a certain ethnic group just by looking at them.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Since many if not most Hispanics and other immigrants are Catholics, I’m afraid the Vatican doesn’t see it that way.

The Vatican has raised concerns about the policy. Considering some of the fall-out from this, that is appropriate.

However, it’s important for all us to see the big picture and at the end of the day, Pope Francis has said that sovereign rights and borders must be respected and we shouldn’t bring in more people than we can handle.

I want to see the administration move to adjust the situation so that we have a competent guest worker program soon because planting season is coming sooner rather later in many places in North America.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Paul Ryan isn’t worried. What I am increasingly worried about is what happens to Catholics who agree with Paul Ryan. I presume we cause concern for the Vatican too. But hey, fair is fair, the Vatican is causing me concern too. I am definitely up for returning the favor.

You would rather have a Catholicism that agrees with your ideology.
Gotcha.

 

[Michael68]

You would rather have a Catholicism that agrees with your ideology.
Gotcha.

I believe you have that backwards if you support the Democrat platform

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I believe you have that backwards if you support the Democrat platform

I’m not a Democrat.

 

[lmachine]

Maybe Catholicism isn’t concerned with American political party platforms, just what’s right, and both sides get some things right and some things wrong.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Maybe Catholicism isn’t concerned with American political party platforms, just what’s right, and both sides get some things right and some things wrong.

Please don’t logic into this,

 

[FollowChrist34]

You would rather have a Catholicism that agrees with your ideology.
Gotcha.

Fortunately I do. I don’t think there is anything in this ban that poses a threat to it. Paul Ryan, numerous other Catholics, (a majority of Americans besides) would share that opinion. I have criticized ambiguity in the order with respect to visa and green card holders. I have criticized the way it was implemented. I don’t think whether a Catholic supports or opposes this ban has anything do with the integrity of his/her Catholicism. My point is that I think when the Vatican gets in the weeds on sensitive political issues, this opens to the door to rash judgment, inappropriate judgment of Catholics who hold differing views. A Christian has a responsibility to welcome the stranger and to adhere to the law of the land. I don’t see the ban as undermining my duty to do both. I will allow that the Church carries out Christ’s work; the government carries out its duty to secure the safety and stability of its citizens within its borders. Jesus doesn’t do Caesar’s job. And vice versa.

 

[Michael68]

Fortunately I do. I don’t think there is anything in this ban that poses a threat to it. Paul Ryan, numerous other Catholics, (a majority of Americans besides) would share that opinion. I have criticized ambiguity in the order with respect to visa and green card holders. I have criticized the way it was implemented. I don’t think whether a Catholic supports or opposes this ban has anything do with the integrity of their Catholicism. My point is that I think when the Vatican gets in the weeds on sensitive political issues, this opens to the door to rash judgment, inappropriate judgment of Catholics who hold differing views. A Christian has a responsibility to welcome the stranger and to adhere to the law of the land. I don’t see the ban as undermining my duty to do both. I will allow that the Church carries out Christ’s work; the government carries out its duty to secure the safety and stability of its citizens within its borders. Jesus doesn’t do Caesar’s job. And vice versa.

Its becoming tiresome and uncharitable

 

[gracepoole]

Fortunately I do. I don’t think there is anything in this ban that poses a threat to it. Paul Ryan, numerous other Catholics, (a majority of Americans besides) would share that opinion. I have criticized ambiguity in the order with respect to visa and green card holders. I have criticized the way it was implemented. I don’t think whether a Catholic supports or opposes this ban has anything do with the integrity of his/her Catholicism. My point is that I think when the Vatican gets in the weeds on sensitive political issues, this opens to the door to rash judgment, inappropriate judgment of Catholics who hold differing views. A Christian has a responsibility to welcome the stranger and to adhere to the law of the land. I don’t see the ban as undermining my duty to do both. I will allow that the Church carries out Christ’s work; the government carries out its duty to secure the safety and stability of its citizens within its borders. Jesus doesn’t do Caesar’s job. And vice versa.

Aiding those fleeing for their lives is “Caesar’s job”? You’d rather take Paul Ryan’s word that this is a morally justified ban than the Holy Father’s?

Usuncut.com, citing the Catholic News Service as its source, reported that the pontiff weighed in on the issue during a pilgrimage of German Catholics and Lutherans. He rejected “the contradiction of those who want to defend Christianity in the West and, on the other hand, are against refugees and other religions.”

Francis explained: “This is not something I’ve read in books, but I see in the newspapers and on television every day. The sickness or, you can say the sin, that Jesus condemns most is hypocrisy, which is precisely what is happening when someone claims to be a Christian but does not live according to the teaching of Christ. You cannot be a Christian without living like a Christian.”

newsiosity.com/articles/politics/pope-scolds-christians-who-support-trump%E2%80%99s-immigration-ban

 

[SuperLuigi]

You would rather have a Catholicism that agrees with your ideology.
Gotcha.

I would rather that we all understand Catholicism means holistic thinking. And if Western left-wing parties choose to break from Catholic values, then I am not going to sit here making excuses for them (or buying into excuses made by campaign managers and supporters) to create the allusion that there is some weird ho-hum concept that “all parties are the same” or that “one just ‘cares’ more about the poor or something”.

No ideology can beat Roman Catholicism. The Church has stood for over 2000 years and seen the rise of fall of many.

It has natural law on its side front and center and that is why everything else needs excuses to the point of a gun to convince others of their utopia.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Aiding those fleeing for their lives is “Caesar’s job”?

The ban halts refugees for 120 days from seven countries with ties to Islamic terrorism to allow a new administration time to review and consider revision of vetting procedures. The state has a right to say who enters its borders and to revise its policies in this regard. It has a right to examine vetting procedures when faced with potential threats to its security. This is not unreasonable.

You’d rather take Paul Ryan’s word that this is a morally justified ban than the Holy Father’s?

Sorry to say it, but yes. Not because it’s Paul Ryan’s word. It just happens to accord with my own view.

newsiosity.com/articles/politics/pope-scolds-christians-who-support-trump%E2%80%99s-immigration-ban

 

[SuperLuigi]

Let me make this clear to the teen-age Trumpsters, I will defend our Holy Pope and his Bishops. I will not put up with disrespect or outright attacks because they do not line up with current Glorious Leader in the White House.
Catholic or Trumpolic.
I’ll stand with the guy in the white robe.

I look forward to such discussion on upcoming threads of traditional marriage, gender, and abortion.

 

[SuperLuigi]

No one ever said the Vatican was bought and sold. But people have legitimate questions.

There is great confusion in the American Church right now and just from a market perspective the Vatican should examine these issues and clarify what it means just so we are all on the boat.

 

[ProVobis]

New York is one of the most diverse if not the most diverse city on the planet. Maybe London beats it.

But it’s kind of silly to assume people are from a certain ethnic group just by looking at them.

Some people can do that. My step brother a court translator, for example. I asked him once how is he able to know which language the other other one speaks. (I heard him start conversations.) He told me he can tell from the eyes.

 

[gracepoole]

The ban halts refugees for 120 days from seven countries with ties to Islamic terrorism to allow a new administration time to review and consider revision of vetting procedures. The state has a right to say who enters its borders and to revise its policies in this regard. It has a right to examine vetting procedures when faced with potential threats to its security. This is not unreasonable.

It absolutely is if our government has failed to provide an explanation of why this ban is necessary and just.

Sorry to say it, but yes. Not because it’s Paul Ryan’s word. It just happens to accord with my own view.

I…I’m at a loss. You want to listen to a politician because his views line up with your own instead of being challenged by the Holy Father’s. I think we’re completely through the looking glass here.