Torture American Style

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Debunkerman

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St. Augustine says, “Just wars are usually defined as those that avenge injuries, when a nation or a city should be punished for failing to right a wrong done by its citizens.”

Could we be punished for failing to right a wrong done by our citizens? gulf-news.com/Articles/OpinionNF.asp?ArticleID=186135
Is torture a blight on America’s image?
 
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Debunkerman:
St. Augustine says, “Just wars are usually defined as those that avenge injuries, when a nation or a city should be punished for failing to right a wrong done by its citizens.”

Could we be punished for failing to right a wrong done by our citizens? gulf-news.com/Articles/OpinionNF.asp?ArticleID=186135
Is torture a blight on America’s image?
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The article lumps many different activities under the heading of “torture”. I would say some definitely are and some are not. BTW, the Geneva Convention does not apply to enemy combatants. That does not imply my endorsement of true torture, its just saying that people that complain about the Geneva Convention not being enforced, don’t understand the Genveva Convention.

True Torture would be a blight on America’s image
 
I would suggest that court-martialling the people involved is “righting a wrong done by our citizens.”
 
Is it just me that finds the continual debate on whether it really is torture or just not quite that bad, rather than doing something about it, to echo the United Nations endlessly debating whether something is strictly genocide or not rather than doing something about it, for which it is continually criticised here and elsewhere?

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
Is it just me that finds the continual debate on whether it really is torture or just not quite that bad, rather than doing something about it, to echo the United Nations endlessly debating whether something is strictly genocide or not rather than doing something about it, for which it is continually criticised here and elsewhere?

Mike
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You’re not alone. Torture is absolutely, morally wrong. It is also counter-productive.

Those who debate what torture is are simply wrong. Torture must be rejected out of hand – and if there’s a question about, “Is this torture or not?” the answer must be, “It is. Stop it immediately.”
 
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MikeWM:
Is it just me that finds the continual debate on whether it really is torture or just not quite that bad, rather than doing something about it, to echo the United Nations endlessly debating whether something is strictly genocide or not rather than doing something about it, for which it is continually criticised here and elsewhere?

Mike
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Something has been done about it, at least according to the news reports.
 
vern humphrey:
You’re not alone. Torture is absolutely, morally wrong. It is also counter-productive.

Those who debate what torture is are simply wrong. Torture must be rejected out of hand – and if there’s a question about, “Is this torture or not?” the answer must be, “It is. Stop it immediately.”
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Not all interrogation techniques are torture. Many of the leftists are portraying normal interrogation techniques as torture when they, in fact, are not. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Bright lights are not torture. Ration cuts are not torture (as long as they’re kept above starvation level). Would you consider the application of mind altering drugs torture? Or how about a 200 hour Brady Bunch marathon (that last one would break me in a heartbeat…)?

The definition of ‘torture’ is (and MUST be) debatable…
 
Proelium Frater:
Not all interrogation techniques are torture. Many of the leftists are portraying normal interrogation techniques as torture when they, in fact, are not. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Bright lights are not torture. Ration cuts are not torture (as long as they’re kept above starvation level). Would you consider the application of mind altering drugs torture? Or how about a 200 hour Brady Bunch marathon (that last one would break me in a heartbeat…)?

The definition of ‘torture’ is (and MUST be) debatable…
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Some of the things you list are from the “Twelve Methods” that were used experimentally on Irish detainees early in the Troubles. A very high proportion of the subjects of these experiments committed suicide later.

Sleep deprivation and drugs are torture.
 
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geezerbob:
Something has been done about it, at least according to the news reports.
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It is disturbing that people are being held at military bases in Cuba and Afghanistan without any contact with their families, without ever being charged with any crime, and with no end to their imprisonment. The names of the prisoners is a state secret. Guilt or innocence is never determined. Everything is done in the dark.
Men have preferred the darkness because their deeds were evil. -John 3:19
The world will view the American people as responsible.
slate.msn.com/id/2113314/
 
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Debunkerman:
It is disturbing that people are being held at military bases in Cuba and Afghanistan without any contact with their families, without ever being charged with any crime, and with no end to their imprisonment. The names of the prisoners is a state secret. Guilt or innocence is never determined. Everything is done in the dark.
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The people held there are illegal combatants and highly dangerous. To release them would be folly. To fail to restrict their access to people outside the system would be a violation of operational security.

Debunkerman said:
Men have preferred the darkness because their deeds were evil. -John 3:19

The world will view the American people as responsible.
slate.msn.com/id/2113314/
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Some of us already view those who encourage the enemy as responsible.
 
vern humphrey:
Sleep deprivation and drugs are torture.
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I want to be on your side, but you need to support these statements. Otherwise they are just dead-stick opinions and you are right–there is no debate, just a bunch of triumphal declarations.

Scott
 
talk about righting a wrong. what about 30 + years of abortioin supported by the american people???
 
vern humphrey:
The people held there are illegal combatants and highly dangerous.
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Various organizations have studied the situation and concluded that 75-80% or more of those picked up in sweeps have nothing to do with terrorism. Yet, they are stressed, if not actually tortured, too.
 
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jjwilkman:
talk about righting a wrong. what about 30 + years of abortioin supported by the american people???
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This is a good point. It demonstrates something is terribly wrong.
 
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Debunkerman:
How do we know this?
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Most of them, if I recall correctly, were captured in Afghanistan, and were fighting our troops. They can go home just as soon as the terrorists quit doing what they’re doing. Just like POW’s (which they’re not), they can go as soon as the war is over.
 
Elaine's Cross:
Various organizations have studied the situation and concluded that 75-80% or more of those picked up in sweeps have nothing to do with terrorism. Yet, they are stressed, if not actually tortured, too.
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Prove it.
 
Scott Waddell:
I want to be on your side, but you need to support these statements. Otherwise they are just dead-stick opinions and you are right–there is no debate, just a bunch of triumphal declarations.

Scott
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I mentioned the impact these techniques had on the Irish detainees upon whom they were tried, did I not?

If I said pulling out fingernails was torture, would you demand “support” for that statement?
 
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geezerbob:
Most of them, if I recall correctly, were captured in Afghanistan, and were fighting our troops. They can go home just as soon as the terrorists quit doing what they’re doing. Just like POW’s (which they’re not), they can go as soon as the war is over.
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I asked how do we know, *the people held there are illegal combatants and highly dangerous? *You are now saying “most of them” which is different. Is it possible some of these captives are innocent? How do you know “most of them” were fighting our troops? How do you define “the war is over” against the abstract noun, “terrorism”? Please define “illegal combatant.”

The Military Tribunal at Nuremberg called the waging of aggressive war “essentially an evil thing . . . to initiate a war of aggression . . . is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.” The nations of Afghanistan and Iraq did not attack the United States. Our army invaded these countries. What is the difference between a legal combatant and an illegal combatant?
lewrockwell.com/orig6/gaddy3.html
 
Elaine's Cross:
Various organizations have studied the situation and concluded that 75-80% or more of those picked up in sweeps have nothing to do with terrorism. Yet, they are stressed, if not actually tortured, too.
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Various organizations have also concluded they are terrorists.

It is intolerable that all of these captives should be “guilty” without evidence. It is the definition of terror to snatch people around the world and secretly haul them to military bases and imprison them indefinitly because a nameless, faceless, official says they are " the terrorists."
Men have preferred the darkness because their deeds were evil. -John 3:19
 
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