Torture is a mortal sin, Pope Francis emphasizes [CC]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Press
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ringil said:
And is your opinion that this ticking time bomb scenario is based in reality?

It’s goofy.
Click to expand...
I’m sure the US government has used torture many times to get information from terrorists about potential terrorist attacks.

I don’t know where you are getting this “ticking time bomb” scenario from my post.
 
freeRadical said:
It’s kinda of hypocritical for the Church to declare torture a mortal sin when they endorsed it in the past and also endorsed burning people at the stake. Does that mean the Church committed a mortal sin?
Click to expand...
We are a work in progress. Christ didn’t give us the code of cannon law before the assumption. He left it up to us to work out the details. We may get things wrong from time to time but eventually we’ll figure it out as we learn more about the world and ourselves. Ours is a living faith that will grow and sometimes change. St. Paul did not speak of slavery as a social evil, it took us a long time to figure it out. It takes God a hundred years to create an oak tree, it took millions of years to create the first human being. Some things take time and God knows this, so I don’t believe that the Church commited a mortal sin.

The Church is not against the death penalty but she has softened her stance in recent years. I used to be pro-abortion, now I’m pro-life. Am I hypocritical?
 
J_Peterson said:
We are a work in progress. Christ didn’t give us the code of cannon law before the assumption. He left it up to us to work out the details. We may get things wrong from time to time but eventually we’ll figure it out as we learn more about the world and ourselves. Ours is a living faith that will grow and sometimes change. St. Paul did not speak of slavery as a social evil, it took us a long time to figure it out. It takes God a hundred years to create an oak tree, it took millions of years to create the first human being. Some things take time and God knows this, so I don’t believe that the Church commited a mortal sin.

The Church is not against the death penalty but she has softened her stance in recent years. I used to be pro-abortion, now I’m pro-life. Am I hypocritical?
Click to expand...
The thing is though, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to help guide individuals and his church. When the church “figures it out” at the same rate as secular society, I can’t help but question the efficacy of the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
 
freeRadical said:
I’m sure the US government has used torture many times to get information from terrorists about potential terrorist attacks.

I don’t know where you are getting this “ticking time bomb” scenario from my post.
Click to expand...
So your scenario is more broad than the “ticking time-bomb” and may extend to a value use of torture to those who MAY have information to prevent a terrorist act.

This reasoning pretty much opens the flood gates to an attitude of the acceptability of cases of acceptable torture.

How much would the Govt. have to be “sure” that an individual had useful information before torture was acceptable. Where would the threshold lie?
 
For those that say, torture is wrong except for, fill in the blank.

Do they also say that the “seal of confession” is sacrosanct except for, fill in the blank?

Torture is torture no matter what kind of fancy, dancy language one uses to “pretty it up” and it is wrong.

I am not saying that torture is a mortal sin, I am saying that torture is wrong, we seem to be more interested in the so-called intensity of wrongness, as in more wrong and less wrong, than in the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

As far as something being more wrong or less wrong than something else seems to be one of man’s way of looking down on his fellow man.

Right and wrong should not be confused with legal and illegal, in that right doesn’t necessarily mean legal and wrong doesn’t necessarily mean illegal and vice versa, legal doesn’t necessarily mean right and illegal doesn’t necessarily mean wrong.
 
Tom_Baum said:
Do they also say that the “seal of confession” is sacrosanct except for, fill in the blank?
Click to expand...
The seal of confession can be broken if the priest, in good conscience, believes someone’s life is in mortal danger. So, the seal of confession is sacrosanct except for “fill in the blank”.
 
J_Peterson said:
We are a work in progress. Christ didn’t give us the code of cannon law before the assumption. He left it up to us to work out the details. We may get things wrong from time to time but eventually we’ll figure it out as we learn more about the world and ourselves. Ours is a living faith that will grow and sometimes change. St. Paul did not speak of slavery as a social evil, it took us a long time to figure it out. It takes God a hundred years to create an oak tree, it took millions of years to create the first human being. Some things take time and God knows this, so I don’t believe that the Church commited a mortal sin.

The Church is not against the death penalty but she has softened her stance in recent years. I used to be pro-abortion, now I’m pro-life. Am I hypocritical?
Click to expand...
How can something not be a mortal sin for hundreds of years and then all of a sudden become a mortal sin?

Does that mean the opposite can be true? Can the church suddenly declare that something that was a mortal sin for hundreds of years is all of a sudden not? Can it change it’s teaching on abortion, contraception, and pre-marital sex?
 
freeRadical said:
The seal of confession can be broken if the priest, in good conscience, believes someone’s life is in mortal danger. So, the seal of confession is sacrosanct except for “fill in the blank”.
Click to expand...
That’s not true at all. The seal of Confession can never be broken- never.

From Canon Law

…It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason” (#2490)
 
ringil said:
That’s not true at all. The seal of Confession can never be broken- never.

From Canon Law

…It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason” (#2490)
Click to expand...
If a priest knows that someone is about to harm another, through confession, and he allows it to happen, is he not just as implicit in the act?
 
Totue is wrong

wheter its a Grave sin or not I don’t know enough about the theology I suppose just my opinion

but Christ said do unto others as you would have them do to you

even if you had info which was a threat to a countries national security you wouldn’t want the authorities of that country to toture you
 
freeRadical said:
If a priest knows that someone is about to harm another, through confession, and he allows it to happen, is he not just as implicit in the act?
Click to expand...
A priest can never break the seal of the Confessional.

No he would not be complicit as a priest in Confession acts in the person of the Lord.

There is no time in any way that a priest can reveal what he has learned in the confessional.
 
I remember in 1990 when the US intervened in Panama in Operation “Just Cause”
the Psychological Operations Unit played loud rock music on and on to get the dictator to give himself up … which he eventually did … without a gunfight.

He’d holed up in no place other than the Vatican’s Apostolic Nuncio!
The army turned to psychological warfare, blaring rock music at “deafening levels”, gunning the engines of armoured vehicles against the Nunciature’s fence, and setting fire to a neighboring field and bulldozing it to create a “helicopter landing zone”.[8][9] Reportedly the song “I Fought The Law” by The Clash was played repeatedly.[10]
Click to expand...
After three days, and requests by the Vatican to stop it … the music ceased.

But the result of Noriega peacefully surrendering and submitting himself to trial (one of the best outcomes vs. potential loss of life etc.) - makes one think. Was that torture?

Or achieving a battlefield victory with so little loss of life (none after the building was surrounded) … that it should be used as a model of military restraint?

youtube.com/watch?v=o7Ad18rcWgs
 
Well, we are all sinners.

And one man’s torture is another man’s persuasion. Depends on the circumstances. There is a line. With a lot of gray. God knows.
 
ringil said:
A priest can never break the seal of the Confessional.

No he would not be complicit as a priest in Confession acts in the person of the Lord.

There is no time in any way that a priest can reveal what he has learned in the confessional.
Click to expand...
So you are saying that if I want to confession and told a priest that I had raped a woman, had her locked in a room in my basement, and that I was going to rape her again and then kill her, he couldn’t tell the authorities?

If so, that is totally messed up.

If it was a regular person, the law would probably consider them an accomplice.
 
celtspirit said:
Totue is wrong

wheter its a Grave sin or not I don’t know enough about the theology I suppose just my opinion

but Christ said do unto others as you would have them do to you

even if you had info which was a threat to a countries national security you wouldn’t want the authorities of that country to toture you
Click to expand...
You wrote that Jesus said, “do unto others as you would have them do to you” and that is correct and the Apostles saw that it was a hard thing for us to do because it attempts to make us rise above ourselfs.

Some seem to think that Jesus meant to say, 'do unto others before they do unto you, but this is NOT what Jesus said.
 
Okay this is a weird thread.

The OP posts that the Pope has reemphasized that torture is a mortal sin.

Then the thread goes on for 3 pages with a bunch of catholics arguing whether torture is alright and when one might be able to use it. :confused::confused::confused:
 
Bell(name removed by moderator) said:
Okay this is a weird thread.

The OP posts that the Pope has reemphasized that torture is a mortal sin.

Then the thread goes on for 3 pages with a bunch of catholics arguing whether torture is alright and when one might be able to use it. :confused::confused::confused:
Click to expand...
Well, seeing as the Church condoned it in the past, it wasn’t always a mortal sin, so he didn’t “reemphasize” anything.
 
Right. So he emphasized torture is a mortal sin.

It seems that once again what the pope says isn’t really what he means but if it is what he means catholics don’t have to listen to him anyways.
 
Bell(name removed by moderator) said:
Right. So he emphasized torture is a mortal sin.

It seems that once again what the pope says isn’t really what he means but if it is what he means catholics don’t have to listen to him anyways.
Click to expand...
Was it a mortal sin centuries ago when the Church condoned it?

How is torture a mortal sin and capital punishment isn’t?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top