Traditional Catholic

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dcs:
That’s what the CDW has stated. I urge you to obey this teaching!
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The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. If someone asks what the norm is, this is the answer. Why is that so hard to understand? Obey the bishops !!
 
Melman, a few things. For one, the Vaticans CDW and the latest documents on liturgical gudelines overrules the USCCB, like it or not that is the case here. Second, a “norm” does not hav ethe same weight as a canon law.
 
Melman:
The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. If someone asks what the norm is, this is the answer. Why is that so hard to understand? Obey the bishops !!
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What are you talking about? I didn’t say otherwise, I was simply responding to a poster who claimed that obedient Catholics stand for Holy Communion, as if that were the only licit option available to them. I know a number of obedient Catholics, myself included, who receive Holy Communion on their knees. That is all.
 
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JNB:
Melman, a few things. For one, the Vaticans CDW and the latest documents on liturgical gudelines overrules the USCCB, like it or not that is the case here. Second, a “norm” does not hav ethe same weight as a canon law.
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What “latest documents on liturgical guidelines” are you referring to, that would overrule USCCB? The recent “Redemptionis Sacramentum” says this:
90. “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the *recognitio *of the Apostolic See. …]
This is clear instruction to us. Obey what the bishops say. Cut and dried. Plain and simple. Over and out. In the US, they’ve said “stand”. Not “stand, or kneel”. “Stand.”

But even if we choose to ignore that, the next paragraph and the various “dubium” statements advise the priests to be charitable, to ignore the lack of compliance and give Communion anyway.
91. …] any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.
To me this is not “CDW overruling USCCB”. It is a “special circumstance”. I must say, in all my 30-something years I have never, ever seen anyone receive kneeling. Genuflecting in line before receiving on rare occasions, yes. But kneeling? Never. So it’s apparently not a widespread problem… except in online forums.

No, you’re not “disobedient” if you choose to kneel. But you’re not fully obedient either. As I tried to point out earlier in the thread, you run the very good risk of confusing those around you. Communion is most definitely not the time to be distracting those around you.
 
Srry still looking for an answer on the hour of prayer or mercy?

What the blessing of the knees are ?

And is genuflecting prayer?
 
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A.Pelliccio:
Srry still looking for an answer on the hour of prayer or mercy?
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A holy hour is an hour spent in prayer in front of the Blessed Sacrament, usually when it is exposed.
What the blessing of the knees are ?
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Traditionally one kneels to receive a blessing from a priest, that’s all.
And is genuflecting prayer?
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In a sense. It is more giving honor to Our Lord as our heavenly sovereign.
 
Kneeling is totally licit and ok! I talked to a priest about it. No one is being disobeident by kneeling. No priest may deny people who kneel for Communion. They are not less Catholic or obedient than anyone who stands. Otherwise the Nobertines at St. Michael’s Abbey would be disobiedent Catholics.
 
Now is that holy hour supposed to be every day and be exposed do yout just mean in visible site, becuase the tabernacle at my church is always visible.
 
Melman:
No, you’re not “disobedient” if you choose to kneel. But you’re not fully obedient either. As I tried to point out earlier in the thread, you run the very good risk of confusing those around you. Communion is most definitely not the time to be distracting those around you.
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There is not a sliding scale of obedience. One is either obedient or one is disobedient. Since Catholics who kneel for Holy Communion are not disobedient, they are obedient.

I fail to see how showing Our Lord the reverence He is due will confuse others. Or why it should be distracting.
 
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A.Pelliccio:
Now is that holy hour supposed to be every day and be exposed do yout just mean in visible site, becuase the tabernacle at my church is always visible.
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That’s good. One can spend a holy hour in front of the tabernacle, but my understanding of the devotion is that it is usually done when the Blessed Sacrament is exposed in a monstrance for adoration. This is when It is taken out of the tabernacle and placed on the altar for all to see.
 
Is it a Traditionalist habit to argue things in circles to the point where everyone throws up their hands in exasperation and walks away?

“Redemptionis Sacramentum”:
90. “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”,
usccb.org/liturgy/girm/bul3.htm
“Postures and Gestures at Mass”
We stand for the Gospel, the pinnacle of revelation, the words and deeds of the Lord, and the bishops of the United States have chosen standing as the posture to be observed in this country for the reception of Communion, the sacrament which unites us in the most profound way possible with Christ who, now gloriously risen from the dead, is the cause of our salvation.

And for “A”: “exposed” usually means that a consecrated host is removed from the tabernacle and put on display, usually in a fancy golden doo-dad called a “monstrance”. Prayers called “benediction” are often said when this is done. Maybe you have heard these terms, if not you can look them up.
“Holy Hour” usually refers to an hour spent in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament exposed in this fashion. Either in an organized prayer service, or by yourself (with or without organized prayers).
I suppose if your parish doesn’t do formal exposition, time spent in prayer before the Tabernacle is the next best thing. This is probably what i should be doing, instead of arguing around and around and around, about Communion postures.
 
Melman:
I suppose if your parish doesn’t do formal exposition, time spent in prayer before the Tabernacle is the next best thing. This is probably what i should be doing, instead of arguing around and around and around, about Communion postures.
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Good, then we are clear, it is perfectly ok to kneel for Communion. It is not disobiedent to kneel for Communion.
It is fully licit to Kneel for Communion.
One can be obedient and kneel for Communion.
Priests cannot deny Communion for people who kneel.

Glad we can clear things up.
 
Melman:
Is it a Traditionalist habit to argue things in circles to the point where everyone throws up their hands in exasperation and walks away?
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No, it is a traditionalist habit to defend oneself against scurrilous charges of disobedience.
 
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Iohannes:
Good, then we are clear, it is perfectly ok to kneel for Communion. It is not disobiedent to kneel for Communion.
It is fully licit to Kneel for Communion.
One can be obedient and kneel for Communion.
Priests cannot deny Communion for people who kneel.

Glad we can clear things up.
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Okay…

What is the norm in the US FULLY approved by the vatican???

Is it kneeling? NO!!!

First of all let’s separate two issues. First, what is the norm? (standing) Second, Are people to be refused who present themselves in some other posture? No. Just because people are not to be refused does not them mean that other postures are just as valid as the norm. Keep in mind the CDW could have refused the US bishops request to set the norm of standing. They didn’t.

Here’s a hypothetical situation for all you traditionalist minded posters. What if the new GIRM had set the norm of kneeling in the US? And what if the CDW stated that out of charity those who approach standing are not to be refused communion? Would all of you make a vigorous defense of those faithful Catholics who choose to not follow the norm and receive standing?

Nope. I didn’t think so. Unless you are willing to make a case that you would, you should drop your argument.
 
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Ham1:
Keep in mind the CDW could have refused the US bishops request to set the norm of standing. They didn’t.
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They could very well have. However, Roman congregations are not hierarchical but democratic. In fact IIRC this “norm” was passed by the CDW over the objections of its prefect (then Jorge Cardinal Medina Estevez).
Here’s a hypothetical situation for all you traditionalist minded posters. What if the new GIRM had set the norm of kneeling in the US? And what if the CDW stated that out of charity those who approach standing are not to be refused communion? Would all of you make a vigorous defense of those faithful Catholics who choose to not follow the norm and receive standing?
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Nope. I didn’t think so. Unless you are willing to make a case that you would, you should drop your argument.
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Of course. Because the two situations are exactly similar, and standing was the traditional norm in the entire Roman Church for centuries up until the middle of the XXth century.

Oh, you mean it wasn’t?
 
Canon law trumps the “norms”, and Canon law states a Catholic can receive standing or kneeling, so I would defend a Catholics rite to receive standing for communion in the current rite as Canon law and the CDW guidelines are currently set even if the “norm” was kneeling for communion.
 
Kneeling!!!

Standing!!!

Kneeling!!!

Standing!!!

Listen to yourselves, people–you sound like a bad parody of a Miller Lite commercial.

What are those of us who are outside looking in supposed to think about the supposed unity of the Catholic Church when you carry on these kinds of arguments? Is Jesus, who prayed “…that they may be one as we are one…” shaking his head and muttering, “Now what are they up to?”

Methinks somebody needs a nap :mad:

DaveBj
 
I hope your not referring to me!!!

…although I do need more coffee!

I have no problem with people kneeling. I stand because it’s the norm. If the norm were changed to kneeling, I would kneel.

I just love how these guys scramble to justify what THEY want to do, instead of looking at what the CHURCH asks them to do!

It’s particularly instructive that if the whole kneeling/standing directives were reversed they would be railing on those who choose to stand! It makes it pretty clear that for them this is not about what the Church wants, it’s about what they want!
 
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