Traditional Catholic's approach on Natural Family Planning

[dixieagle]

NFP is bothersome for me personally. I suggest you read more carefully.

Sorry you are feeling judged from whatever source, but don’t project the judgement that you (or anyone else for that matter) feel on me, please.

I really struggle with whether it is appropriate for use in MY life. I feel that I could very easily slip into inappropriate use of it and I often think life (for ME!) would have been much easier before it (which wasn’t that very long ago!)

It is a weighty decision to consider the gravity of my own situation to determine appropriate use, and IME takes a lot of prayers. Please pray for me…!

I understood your post as referencing your personal, individual opinion about NFP in general, not the use of NFP as applies to your personal situation, which is what you evidently mean. Sorry

I am well past the NFP stage (thank God!) It was always a struggle, as dh, good man though he is, simply felt deprived for 20+ years (another thread completely.)

My feeling is that you are clearly a prayerful, well-intentioned Catholic and if you feel that you have sufficient reason to postpone or space, then in all likelihood you do. I think that the choice to use NFP entails sacrifice in and of itself and some couples tend towards scrupulosity in this regard which makes things even more difficult than they are.

I will pray, indeed; been there, done that

God bless!

 

[dixieagle]

Here is a good link that has some information about NFP. btw, the woman who’s page this is on also has a traditional catholic message board. She announced this week she is pregnant with her 13th child.

If you have time to read The Case Concerning Catholic Contraception by Michael Malone, I would encourage you to do so. It was a valuable tool for me in figuring out what happened in my life using NFP

geocities.com/maryskey/maryskey.html

Also, Planned Parenthood says NFP is 80% to 98% effective. I am not sure with those stats how open to life anyone could be. It is about the same, if not higher, effectiveness as artificial birth control and condoms.

ppgg.org/site/c.esJMKZPKJtH/b.1164205/k.5BF7/Natural_Family_Planning.htm

God bless…

Yes, NFP is quite effective…and Humanae Vitae encourages scientists to do research so that couples would have even more reason to choose it over ABC.

The Michael Malone piece and the other articles found through that link are utterly extremist and in no way representative of true Church teaching in numerous encyclicals. When so-called “traditionalists” put their own personal, ultra-rigid spin on things, they actually cease, ironically, to be orthodox Catholics, no matter what they say.

The put-downs of Catholic couples (as evidenced in the links cited) who are trying hard to adhere to already difficult church teachings regarding acceptable means of spacing, postponing - yes, even indefinitely - pregnancies is uncharitable and arrogant.

We are bound to live by what the Church teaches, which is abundantly clear. If one chooses to exceed those requirements, then that is fine and dandy…for you, but it is NOT required for anyone else, nor is it necessarily more virtuous.

It is incumbent upon all of us to familiarize ourselves with authentic Church teaching in these matters and not rely on so-called “orthodox” sources that are actually in no way orthodox.

 

[dixieagle]

I am honestly trying to figure out why anyone here would encourage a newly married man and woman to practice NFP after their FIRST child being born. I am not trying to be flip, truly am not, but it seems we should be prudent and encourage him to have a large Catholic family. If he experiences a point in his life where he is undergoing grave circumstances, then only a sound Catholic priest can guide him to make a decision. Children are not some villlians ready to suck the life out of us, they are our primary reason for Holy Matrimony and they have eternal souls which hopefully will be with God for all eternity. Our goal should be to build up the Body of Christ with MORE Catholic children.

Fwiw, I don’t think the Church approves of NFP, it tolerates it. I cannot see the Church saying, oh yes, space your children and if you want only 2 that’s fine. This would make the primary purpose of marriage optional, and I don’t think it is.

It is for the couple alone, with informed consciences, to decide when and for how long to space births. It is not up to anyone else to encourage, or discourage, a “large Catholic family.”

Indeed, the Church does approve of NFP, and, if a couple prayerfully realizes that, for serious reasons, 2 children is all they can responsibly welcome, it is THEIR business.

Careful reading of recent encyclicals - not biased critiques by “traditionalists” with an agenda - should make this all clear.

 

[Mommy_G]

Paradox,

I am wondering why you are considering spacing your children so early in your marriage. You don’t have to answer that! What I mean is that your fertility is a gift from God, and there will be limits to it. You may find the conception of your first child happened very quickly, but that may not be the case down the road. Bear with me and I’ll give you a short history of the women in my family.

My great grandmother had 8 children, 5 survived. Back in the old days children were “necessary”. There were jobs to fill and much manual labor to do, so having a large family was a literal God-send. She accepted as many children as Our Lord wanted to give her. There were days when all my grandma had to eat was a piece of bread with lard on it. But you know, they survived.

My grandma, who is 90, had two children. She had my mother on her first wedding anniversary. The next child came 20 years later. She prayed and prayed for another child, never stopped, and lo’ and behold, as father time approached, she conceived my aunt, who is only a few years older than me. God spaced them as He saw fit.

My mother could not conceive for two years after she married. She offered a novena to St. Jude, and viola…here I am. She then had my sister 11 months later, and then 5 years, nothing. She prayed and prayed, for she desired 10 children, and finally my youngest sister came along. Unfortunately at the age of 29 her pituatary gland had some major problems and she went through the change of life. It devastated her, but she saw it as God’s will.

I myself had a hysterectomy at the age of 33. I have 4 wonderful children, but I did use NFP, and now think of the children I SHOULD have had but refused. I think of all the years I wasted spacing children, thinking I would be fertile until my mid-40’s. I wasn’t. Yes there SEEMED to be grave circumstances as to why I should space the children, but looking back at it now, my faith was weak, still is, and I didn’t see so clearly that God would provide for our family.

Moral of the story, you don’t know how long your fertility will last. Maybe God has given you only so many years to be able to conceive, maybe he has given you the gift of having 12 children. God is in control of your fertility and only He knows how many days you have to use it. Perhaps we should ask ourselves the question, “Should I use SUPER-natural planning?” I just strongly caution you not to end up like me, wondering about the children I deprived Our Lord of, all for His greater Glory.

God bless you sweetie…

I just want to say thank you for this most beautiful witness.

 

[marymonde]

It is for the couple alone, with informed consciences, to decide when and for how long to space births. It is not up to anyone else to encourage, or discourage, a “large Catholic family.”

Indeed, the Church does approve of NFP, and, if a couple prayerfully realizes that, for serious reasons, 2 children is all they can responsibly welcome, it is THEIR business.

Careful reading of recent encyclicals - not biased critiques by “traditionalists” with an agenda - should make this all clear.

Obviously the person started this thread’s conscience isn’t formed yet as to how to space his children since he’s kind of asking for advice if he SHOULD plan them and how far to space them. If you ask me, he doesn’t sound too sure if NFP is right for him. No offense to this man, for I think he was truly reaching out for some good sound advice, but he kind of made his business our business. Since he asked, I gave him my .02. He may not regret planning his family now at a young age, but his well formed conscience may bother him down the road. And this is by no means biased, it’s reality. Sometimes you get advice at an early stage of your life that will affect you differently at an older age, like less grandchildren, or no grandchildren being born. Encyclical or no encylical.

 

[marymonde]

The Michael Malone piece and the other articles found through that link are utterly extremist and in no way representative of true Church teaching in numerous encyclicals. When so-called “traditionalists” put their own personal, ultra-rigid spin on things, they actually cease, ironically, to be orthodox Catholics, no matter what they say.

The put-downs of Catholic couples (as evidenced in the links cited) who are trying hard to adhere to already difficult church teachings regarding acceptable means of spacing, postponing - yes, even indefinitely - pregnancies is uncharitable and arrogant.

.

“Cardinal Ottaviani spoke on the following day.  ‘I am not pleased,’ he said, ‘with the statement in the text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have.  **Never has this been heard of in the Church**.’  He was the eleventh son in a family of twelve children, he said.  ‘My father was a laborer, and the fear of having many children never entered my parents’ minds, because they trusted in providence.’” (Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen, S.V.D., The Rhine flows into the Tiber- A History of Vatican II.  Tan Books, 1985, p. 269.)

Just for the record, I am not putting anyone down. I am simply stating a fact, you may not have your fertility tomorrow. To think after your first child there is a need to start questioning the spacing of children may possibly be a premature worry.

Paradox writes:

we feel that spacing our children at least 18months apart would be appropriate given our circumstances<<

I don’t know what he means by this being appropriate. To me he seems overjoyed at the birth of his first child and he could be worried about the child’s future. Perhaps he has concerns if he is going to have college money, or something pressing like losing his job. So many scenario’s which would warrant much different advice.

As extreme as you think trads can be, folks who use NFP seem just as extreme to traditionalists. So what? If the Church approves of both means of procreating, why not get both sides of the story?

 

[dixieagle]

“Cardinal Ottaviani spoke on the following day. ‘I am not pleased,’ he said, ‘with the statement in the text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the Church.’ He was the eleventh son in a family of twelve children, he said. ‘My father was a laborer, and the fear of having many children never entered my parents’ minds, because they trusted in providence.’” (Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen, S.V.D., The Rhine flows into the Tiber- A History of Vatican II. Tan Books, 1985, p. 269.)

Cardinal Ottaviani was never Pope, but was certainly entitled to his own personal opinion.

As extreme as you think trads can be, folks who use NFP seem just as extreme to traditionalists. So what? If the Church approves of both means of procreating, why not get both sides of the story?

Why, in heaven’s name, would couples following Church teaching by using NFP seem extreme?

The link you provided in your earlier post (geocities.com/maryskey/maryskey.html) showcases articles and viewpoints that exhibit flawed, wrongheaded reasoning (not to mention bad writing!) and are NOT consonant with Church teaching.

It is well and good to choose to use no means of spacing or postponing births, if that is a couple’s prayerful choice. However, it is NOT acceptable to promote flawed, erroneous opinions as fact, which is what that website does.

When we interpret Church teachings to suit ourselves (whether in a liberal or traditional fashion) we become “cafeteria Catholics”…or fundamentalist protestants.

It is, as I have said before, incumbent upon us to discern true Catholic teaching, follow it, and cease promoting distorted interpretations as gospel. This disheartens faithful Catholic couples trying hard to “follow the rules” as best they can.

 

[marymol]

There are the verses in the Song of Songs - ’ do not arouse love before its time …’

In these days when science has given man the know how to exercise Godly prudence in this area and The Church being able to tend us in holy pastures of truth in this matter , could the above be an instance of the eternal Wisdom in The Word , supporting The Church stance …

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

When we interpret Church teachings to suit ourselves (whether in a liberal or traditional fashion) we become “cafeteria Catholics”…or fundamentalist protestants.

But sometimes you are given a choice. You may remain a virgin, you may marry and not use birth control, or you may marry and use natural forms of birth control, though not to exclude all children.

Not all choices are equally good, but all are legitimate and you are entitled to make any of them.

 

[bear06]

“Cardinal Ottaviani spoke on the following day. ‘I am not pleased,’ he said, ‘with the statement in the text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the Church.’ He was the eleventh son in a family of twelve children, he said. ‘My father was a laborer, and the fear of having many children never entered my parents’ minds, because they trusted in providence.’” (Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen, S.V.D., The Rhine flows into the Tiber- A History of Vatican II. Tan Books, 1985, p. 269.)

Just for the record, I am not putting anyone down. I am simply stating a fact, you may not have your fertility tomorrow. To think after your first child there is a need to start questioning the spacing of children may possibly be a premature worry.

Paradox writes:

we feel that spacing our children at least 18months apart would be appropriate given our circumstances<<

Maybe I missed it but I don’t remember their circumstances being given.

 

[KCT]

I have 4 wonderful children, but I did use NFP, and now think of the children I SHOULD have had but refused.

**There’s no guarantee you WOULD have had kids during that time. **

Yes there SEEMED to be grave circumstances as to why I should space the children, but looking back at it now, my faith was weak, still is, and I didn’t see so clearly that God would provide for our family.

But if you did the best you could, at the time, what more is there? We can all lament what we didn’t know when we were younger. You were obedient to what you knew then. —KCT

 

[dixieagle]

But sometimes you are given a choice. You may remain a virgin, you may marry and not use birth control, or you may marry and use natural forms of birth control, though not to exclude all children.

Not all choices are equally good, but all are legitimate and you are entitled to make any of them.

Bingo!!!

The problem arises when one tries to insist that his/her legitimate choice is the ONLY legitimate choice, thus actually rejecting Church teaching.

 

[otjm]

Despite the many views of many priests, the Church has made it clear that it should be used in grave circumstances. A lot of prayer and spiritual direction might be helpful in deciding if you really need to use it. I can tell you from experience that, while it’s tiring for a little while, having kids close together can be a blessing. Most of my kids are spaced 2 years of less quite naturally and they are very close.

that is not correct. The term"grave" has a specific meaning in Moral Theology. The Church does not teach that it may only be used in Grave circumstances. Please re-read Humanae Vitae.

 

[Sure]

that is not correct. The term"grave" has a specific meaning in Moral Theology. The Church does not teach that it may only be used in Grave circumstances. Please re-read Humanae Vitae.

So, what is the difference between “grave” and “serious” aren’t they synonyms?

 

[dixieagle]

So, what is the difference between “grave” and “serious” aren’t they synonyms?

“Serious” means “thoughtful”, “not trifling”, “requiring much thought”

“Grave” means “significantly serious”, “likely to produce great harm”

This is really a matter of degree; while they are similar in meaning, in common usage, “grave” usually indicates something even more serious than “serious”; I would rather be in “serious” than “grave” condition.

In both instances, the words indicate something not to be taken lightly.

 

[Sure]

“Serious” means “thoughtful”, “not trifling”, “requiring much thought”

“Grave” means “significantly serious”, “likely to produce great harm”

This is really a matter of degree; while they are similar in meaning, in common usage, “grave” usually indicates something even more serious than “serious”; I would rather be in “serious” than “grave” condition.

In both instances, the words indicate something not to be taken lightly.

In moral theology they are synonyms. A grave sin is the same as a serious sin, both mean a mortal sin.

 

[maria29]

I really hate how these threads always turn into you’re only a good Catholic if you’ve got a large family and Catholic families with 2 or less children are somehow less Catholic. Please see what the last Pope said about NFP.

From Pope John Paul II

"The use of the natural methods gives a couple an openness to life, which is truly a splendid gift of God’s goodness. **It also helps them deepen their conjugal communication and draw closer to one another in their union - a closeness that lasts throughout their lives. **

1. We must also be convinced that it is providential that various natural family planning methods exist so as to meet the needs of different couples. The Church does not give exclusive approval to any one natural method, but urges that all be made available and be respected. The ultimate reason for any natural method is not simply its biological effectiveness or reliability, but its consistency with a Christian view of sexuality as expressive of conjugal love

From a the Vatican Representative at a Women’s Conference

"The Holy See is happy to associate itself with all authentic initiatives to improve women’s health. It supports a woman’s right to a healthy pregnancy, to deliver her children in a clean, safe environment, with adequate professional help, to decide responsibly with her husband on the number of their children. The Church has approved Natural Family Planning, which is highly effective when used properly.

 

[Pug]

From Pope John Paul II

It also helps them deepen their conjugal communication and draw closer to one another in their union - a closeness that lasts throughout their lives.

I’m probably being stupid with google, but I can’t get this to come up on the Vatican site. Could you give a link to the full text there?

 

[Sure]

I really hate how these threads always turn into you’re only a good Catholic if you’ve got a large family and Catholic families with 2 or less children are somehow less Catholic. Please see what the last Pope said about NFP.

From Pope John Paul II

"The use of the natural methods gives a couple an openness to life, which is truly a splendid gift of God’s goodness. **It also helps them deepen their conjugal communication and draw closer to one another in their union - a closeness that lasts throughout their lives. **

1. We must also be convinced that it is providential that various natural family planning methods exist so as to meet the needs of different couples. The Church does not give exclusive approval to any one natural method, but urges that all be made available and be respected. The ultimate reason for any natural method is not simply its biological effectiveness or reliability, but its consistency with a Christian view of sexuality as expressive of conjugal love

From a the Vatican Representative at a Women’s Conference

"The Holy See is happy to associate itself with all authentic initiatives to improve women’s health. It supports a woman’s right to a healthy pregnancy, to deliver her children in a clean, safe environment, with adequate professional help, to decide responsibly with her husband on the number of their children. The Church has approved Natural Family Planning, which is highly effective when used properly.

None of these quotations conflict with the idea that NFP is not the “norm” and ought to be used when there are serious circumstances. The discernment of “serious” is to be done by the husband and wife in light of the teachings of the Church.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

that is not correct. The term"grave" has a specific meaning in Moral Theology. The Church does not teach that it may only be used in Grave circumstances. Please re-read Humanae Vitae.

once again:
Pius XII certainly conditioned the use of NFP on grave reasons:
“Consequently to embrace the state of matrimony, to use continually the faculty proper to it, and in it alone, and on the other hand to withdraw always and deliberately, without a grave motive, from its primary duty, would be to sin against the very meaning of conjugal life” (A.A.S., 43 [1951] 845-846).