Traditionalist and Charismatic

[henrikhank]

Pax et bonum!
What is the relationship between Traditionalism and Charismatic Renewal-ism?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Not a very friendly one in my experience. I went to charismatic prayer groups for about a year and enjoyed it, but then my needs changed and I decided to stop going.

Traditionalists are often suspicious towards new things, and the charismatic movement is seen as such. I guess it is not a bad attitude, because whether something is good or not will reveal itself eventually. No need to embrace everything that comes along.

Charismatics often rely on personal revelation and some even hold it as superior to what the church teaches. I’ve seen this many times and it was the main reason that put me off the movement. These communities can verge on protestantism if there is not strong leadership that is faithful to the magisterium and keeps things Catholic. And they tend to be indifferent towars the latin mass.

Of course, these are generalisations and there are exceptions. There is a woman I know who regularly attends TLM and is at the same time heavily involved in the charismatic movement. I don’t see a problem personally, as long as people sing their happy-clappy songs during prayer meetings and leave the Mass alone. But I’ve been to a ‘charismatic Mass’ and don’t intend to go again. It was pretty out there. And of course, they have to be faithful to what the church teaches.

 

[Brendan_McCabe]

There isn’t one as far as I know.

The Charismatic movement is a very new movement from the 1960’s that was inspired by protestant Pentecostalism as such it has nothing to do with tradition and I don’t personally think it is compatible with Catholicism.

 

[Melchior_1]

There are some very Traditional Charismatic people, I count myself among them. There are also several Orders who are charismatic and Traditional. The Franciscans have several of these (see; Steubinville). There is also the Companion’s of the Cross in Ottawa Canada/Huston Texas.

Although I’m I would “label” myself charismatic, I do engage in some very traditional practices. Fasting and abstaining from meat on Fridays (or engaging in charitable acts in leau of of eating meat) for example.

Note the use of Traditional vs traditional, by the way. One can also be traditional without being Traditional, and vice versa.

 

[Melchior_1]

There’s a lot of people like that. One such Priest I know is a heavy supporter of Life Teen, He also had the Extraordinary Form started at his parish as well.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Hey, Gregorian chant is very charismatic. The profound ethereal emotion!

I should probably mention that practicing the Charismatic gifts led me to be much more inclined to agree with the Church on sacramentalism.

 

[ExLibris]

The emotional ejaculations of Pentecostalism have no place in traditional Catholicism.

Altar Calls, practitioners fainting and speaking in tongues, women dancing up and down aisles, and music of modern motifs blaring should not be allowed in the house of God.

 

[wild_thing]

The two don’t have to be diametrically opposed to one another. Both Father Mitch Pacwa and Mother Angelica embraced the charismatic renewal at first. As long as it follows the guidelines of the magisterium, there is nothing wrong with a charismatic mass. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but in the right hands it can be a different way of God speaking to you.

 

[GloriousOrder]

I firmly believe that a traditional Catholic can be a charismatic Catholic - but outside the holy Mass. The great and glorious sacrifice that our Lord instituted is a time for conservatism, solemnity, peace, and quiet. Even Haydn’s Mass settings are a little charismatic for my tastes, and that Mozart - boy, what a liberal! Listen to all those bubbly soprano solos and orchestral outbursts! I’d expect that sort of thing from the heretic Bach, but from a Catholic!?

To be perfectly serious, I believe you can have as many para-liturgical “healing services” as you want, just not a Mass. If a man has a spirituality centered around the imagined charismatic gifts and it brings him closer to God, let him do that. As long as there is proper catechesis and he understands that what he’s doing has nothing to do with the sacraments, it seems fine! Let them have their underground pentecostal revival meetings and their happy-go-lucky events, but let the Mass be left to its ancient solemnities!

 

[corsair]

I agree with Brendan and ExLibris on this issue.

 

[Iotaunum]

I agree with Brendan and ExLibris on this issue.

That makes two of us. If you have been to a latin Mass and a Charismatic Mass/prayer service I think you will see that they are two intrinsically different events to say the least. I dont think those who seek out the tradtional mass would be up for a charismatic celebration - at least not the ones I have been at. In fact traditional Catholicism seems to be at the other end of the spectrum to this new “charismatic revival” (what exactly they are trying to revive is beyond me). I honestly can’t see any of the saints at one of these events.

This is from the “traditionalist” perspective of course.

 

[At_Trent]

I was invited to a Charismatic Mass. I declined because the person who invited me said that " we’ll be speaking in tongues".

I found it odd that something of the sort can be planned and dialed up at will.

 

[ExLibris]

My biggest problem with Charismatic services are the Altar Calls.

Clearly, calling crying teens up to “accept Jesus in their life” is a rejection of the Sacramental acceptance of Jesus through Baptism and/or Communion.

All that glisters is not gold.

 

[TrueLight]

I was invited to a Charismatic Mass. I declined because the person who invited me said that " we’ll be speaking in tongues".

I found it odd that something of the sort can be planned and dialed up at will.

Ha ha.

I used to attend a charismatic “non-denominational church”. Oftentimes, during the altar call the choir would be asked to go down from the risers and pray with the people at the altar.

One Sunday, we had a very charismatic guest preacher. His altar call drew over one hundred people. We were asked to go down and pray with them. That was cool.

However, the charismatic preacher at some point said, “Those of you with the gift of the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues”!

I do not speak in tongues and I was mortified!

Everyone, and I mean everyone in the choir broke out in tongues.

I just closed my eyes really tightly and repeated Alleluiah.

 

[Melchior_1]

My biggest problem with Charismatic services are the Altar Calls.

Clearly, calling crying teens up to “accept Jesus in their life” is a rejection of the Sacramental acceptance of Jesus through Baptism and/or Communion.

All that glisters is not gold.

You mean that no one should accept Jesus in their life? No one should embrace the gifts given to them through Baptism & Confirmation? By accepting Jesus and committing to Him fully they once again accepts the gifts given to them through the Sacraments of Initiation?

I don’t see how this is clear at all, especially when charismatic folks greatly appreciate and celebrate the Sacraments.

Unless you wish to challenge my authenticity towards the Sacraments and the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[ajpirc]

I agree with Brendan and ExLibris on this issue.

That makes two of us.

I’m number three. I would rather live a Catholic lifestyle outside of the Mass, not a lifestyle that derived from Pentacostal Protestantism. Where’s our Catholic identity in that?

 

[Brendan_McCabe]

I was invited to a Charismatic Mass. I declined because the person who invited me said that " we’ll be speaking in tongues".

I found it odd that something of the sort can be planned and dialed up at will.

If a person can speak in tongues whenever they want.

A) The master of the Holy Spirit, which is impossible.
B) Really summoning evil spirits who come because they want to deceive.
C) Fakes.

It also goes against what Christ said in Luke 4:12 about how we are not to put God to the test imo.

The Holy Spirit goes where it wills not wherever men summon it.

 

[Melchior_1]

If a person can speak in tongues whenever they want.

A) The master of the Holy Spirit, which is impossible.
B) Really summoning evil spirits who come because they want to deceive.
C) Fakes.

It also goes against what Christ said in Luke 4:12 about how we are not to put God to the test imo.

1. True.
2. Also can happen.
   C) Also also can happen.

You don’t dial it up like you would a phone, it works the same as those who have the gift of healing.

 

[ajpirc]

Would traditionalism and charismaticism be the conservativism and liberalism of the Catholic Church? Charismaticism being the liberalism and traditionalism being, of course, the conservativism.

 

[At_Trent]

Ha ha.

I used to attend a charismatic “non-denominational church”. Oftentimes, during the altar call the choir would be asked to go down from the risers and pray with the people at the altar.

One Sunday, we had a very charismatic guest preacher. His altar call drew over one hundred people. We were asked to go down and pray with them. That was cool.

However, the charismatic preacher at some point said, “Those of you with the gift of the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues”!

I do not speak in tongues and I was mortified!

Everyone, and I mean everyone in the choir broke out in tongues.

I just closed my eyes really tightly and repeated Alleluiah.

Well, good you didn’t attempt what you didn’t truly feel.