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semper_catholicus
Guest
I agree. You make a good point.
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straykat
Guest
It’s sad that Latin is such a divisive issue in the West.
Your family in Iraq and Syria barely have churches left… let alone can be picky about how every service is conducted. And the ones that are around barely have a roof or ornaments. People have died for their faith. And when they get respite, they speak in vernacular (the Chaldean churches that is). But you would spurn them.
Your family in Iraq and Syria barely have churches left… let alone can be picky about how every service is conducted. And the ones that are around barely have a roof or ornaments. People have died for their faith. And when they get respite, they speak in vernacular (the Chaldean churches that is). But you would spurn them.
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semper_catholicus
Guest
I agree; it is unfortunate.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
I will simply say that many of the points made “against” the Charismatic Movement here are how I feel about traditionalists and my reasons for potentially embracing the charismatic.
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otjm
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And where exactly did you find that bon mot?
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otjm
Guest
If it is the work of the Holy Spirit (and I think you will find that John Paul 2 found it to be) then it is not a “something portestant”. It is the work of the Holy Spirit.
And nothing in any Church documents states that the Holy spirit cannot work among Protestants, as well as others.
And nothing in any Church documents states that the Holy spirit cannot work among Protestants, as well as others.
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otjm
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Neither John Paul 2 nor Benedict 16 would agree with you.
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NikosLaos
Guest
Was St. Paul a protestant/pentecostal? I don’t think so…but he was a charismatic indeed…much like the rest of the early Church.
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otjm
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The Holy Spirit is neither Protestant nor Catholic.
If what you are saying is that this is not an experience of the Holy Spirit, you have your opinion to rely on. I rely on what St Paul has said, and the fruits which have come from it.
If what you are saying is that this is not an experience of the Holy Spirit, you have your opinion to rely on. I rely on what St Paul has said, and the fruits which have come from it.
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otjm
Guest
It is neither Protestant nor Catholic in origin. It’s origin is in God.
You certainly may choose to believe otherwise.
And I am old enough to remember being in school before Vatican 2 was actually started, and praying daily for the action of the Holy Spirit. Tridintine Mass and all.
Oh, and I have had a bit more experience with the Charismatic Movement than you appear to, and no one is “roll around on the ground speaking in gibberish and acting like a donkey and waving his hands in the air?”. Nice little snide characterization, but not what I have experienced.
And as to languages, I have spoken with someone fairly quiet and reserved, who related being at a Charismatic meeting in the Southwest. Another person, white, spoke in a tongue; when this woman turned to another (who was native), the third person said the speaker was speaking in Navajo. The one listening and identifying was Navajo; the one speaking in tongues had no connection ever to the Navajos.
I have no reason to question the integrity or the truthfulness of what was told me. And this is not an isolated incident.
No one has acted like this - this being what? Rolling on the ground, speaking in gibberish and acting like a donkey? Okay… Apparently I am to believe you are the authority on the matter. Thanks for your opinions.
You certainly may choose to believe otherwise.
And I am old enough to remember being in school before Vatican 2 was actually started, and praying daily for the action of the Holy Spirit. Tridintine Mass and all.
Oh, and I have had a bit more experience with the Charismatic Movement than you appear to, and no one is “roll around on the ground speaking in gibberish and acting like a donkey and waving his hands in the air?”. Nice little snide characterization, but not what I have experienced.
And as to languages, I have spoken with someone fairly quiet and reserved, who related being at a Charismatic meeting in the Southwest. Another person, white, spoke in a tongue; when this woman turned to another (who was native), the third person said the speaker was speaking in Navajo. The one listening and identifying was Navajo; the one speaking in tongues had no connection ever to the Navajos.
I have no reason to question the integrity or the truthfulness of what was told me. And this is not an isolated incident.
No one has acted like this - this being what? Rolling on the ground, speaking in gibberish and acting like a donkey? Okay… Apparently I am to believe you are the authority on the matter. Thanks for your opinions.
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NikosLaos
Guest
you have got some of your facts wrong, based on what you want to see… acting stupid, rolling around, and speaking gibberish is not a definition of the charismatic renewal. Certainly, like every other practice of the Church the charismatic renewal can be abused. The problem comes into scene when the traditionalism and charismaticism are seen as opposites…They are not. They should complement each other.
What I mean by charismatic is praying to the Lord by the means of songs, pslams, hymns (Eph 5:19), and seeking for the gifts of the Spirit(1Cor12:13) for the good of the Church(1Cor 12:7)…
Dont be surprised/scandalized that the practice was revived by protestants, but rather thank God for them… if Jesus used a donkey to enter triumphantly into Jerusalem…he could use protestants as well…
p.s . tounges are a legitimate gift in the Church. Ask St. Augustine about it…
What I mean by charismatic is praying to the Lord by the means of songs, pslams, hymns (Eph 5:19), and seeking for the gifts of the Spirit(1Cor12:13) for the good of the Church(1Cor 12:7)…
Dont be surprised/scandalized that the practice was revived by protestants, but rather thank God for them… if Jesus used a donkey to enter triumphantly into Jerusalem…he could use protestants as well…
p.s . tounges are a legitimate gift in the Church. Ask St. Augustine about it…
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Reuben_J
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I think some people are plain ignorant and made uninformed comment on nonsensical things. Probably due to hearing things from prejudiced sources, displaying hostility towards Catholics who have found greater faith in God.
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Reuben_J
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To answer the topic of the thread, yes, Catholic Charismatic Renewal practice traditional Catholicism. Many of them look for mass and never fail to attend daily mass. Some are devoted to Marian devotion. Some have given up their jobs to work full time for the church, and many more. Many of them have undergone great conversion from non-believers and non-practicing Catholics to become holy people of God, who love the Sacraments and the Church, who have become good parents and raising children in the faith. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can renew such people.
Perhaps it is not profitable to hear gossip and half truth from people who scadanlize Catholics who experience renewal of their faith.
Perhaps it is not profitable to hear gossip and half truth from people who scadanlize Catholics who experience renewal of their faith.
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Reuben_J
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Catholic Charismatic Renewal roughly means renewal by the action of the Holy Spirit.
Catholics who are lukewarm, who do not know their Catechism, who have not attending church, who are indifferent to the Church teachings and obligations, are renewed in their Catholic faith by the power of the Holy Spirit, thus the Charismatic elements there - only the supernatural power of God can change people, if they surrender to Him.
When the people of God are renewed, the dying Church is thus renewed. Her people found new faith in their life and so change the face of the Church.
It is a grace of God in our time. God who comes for the sick, not the healthy.
Catholics who are lukewarm, who do not know their Catechism, who have not attending church, who are indifferent to the Church teachings and obligations, are renewed in their Catholic faith by the power of the Holy Spirit, thus the Charismatic elements there - only the supernatural power of God can change people, if they surrender to Him.
When the people of God are renewed, the dying Church is thus renewed. Her people found new faith in their life and so change the face of the Church.
It is a grace of God in our time. God who comes for the sick, not the healthy.
I don’t particularly gravitate toward that myself. I think there’s no harm in it. Though I do have my doubts about the more extreme side of it such as speaking in tongues.
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otjm
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You obviously only “know” anything about the Charismatic Renewal from uninformed sources.
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NikosLaos
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How about we let the Church decide about the rites and practices to be used, and obey her in what she decides. I think thats a good middle ground 
And on the other side I see your point about the practices of the charismatics. I dont agree with the behavious that are not inspired by the Spirit either, but you cannot put the whole charismatic renewal into that box. If I would have been looking at the behaviours and actions of Church leaders, sheperds, and believers throughout history I might have left the Church…but I keep looking at the teaching of our Mother Church, and that keeps me in. The same thing goes for the Charismatics, if you only observe the things on the surface surely you will see a lot of bad things…but look at what the church has to say about it, starting with St Paul…and do likewise. The early Church did not have the Tridentine mass, which means that it is also a product of a certain point of history, its culture and society… You could attend charismatic meetings and then go to a Tridentine mass… I do not see a problem in that…
I can tell you from my experience that the Spirit has worked in me through the charismatic renewal that brought me to a greater appreciation and awareness of the misteries of the liturgy…it brought life to the letter, so to say…
And on the other side I see your point about the practices of the charismatics. I dont agree with the behavious that are not inspired by the Spirit either, but you cannot put the whole charismatic renewal into that box. If I would have been looking at the behaviours and actions of Church leaders, sheperds, and believers throughout history I might have left the Church…but I keep looking at the teaching of our Mother Church, and that keeps me in. The same thing goes for the Charismatics, if you only observe the things on the surface surely you will see a lot of bad things…but look at what the church has to say about it, starting with St Paul…and do likewise. The early Church did not have the Tridentine mass, which means that it is also a product of a certain point of history, its culture and society… You could attend charismatic meetings and then go to a Tridentine mass… I do not see a problem in that…
I can tell you from my experience that the Spirit has worked in me through the charismatic renewal that brought me to a greater appreciation and awareness of the misteries of the liturgy…it brought life to the letter, so to say…
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Reuben_J
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You see wrongly. Perhaps it is what you want to see. You speak badly of the CCR, things they do not do. Well, maybe a few do it. Abuses or strange things done by Catholics are nothing new. They are everywhere and you can start with the clergy. But why talk about abuses? Why not talk about what the CCR is? You need to learn more and be informed rather than putting down your fellow Catholics.
Your mentioned of CCR history is not true. Catholic Charismatic Renewal has nothing to do with Protestant Charismatic. CCR has nothing to do with Protestantism. CCR is Catholic.
CCR is world wide, not regional. Therefore look at the bigger picture.
If you can do better to serve the Church, good, by all means do. CCR is just doing their bits, which is amazing, the Holy Spirit is amazing, because these people come from humble background and can do big things.
CCR is a renewal of Catholics in their Catholic faith by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Do you know that the CCR can be more Catholics by their devotion to the Catholic faith and practices?
It is that simple. Anything Catholic, they are given the power of the Holy Spirit to love and embrace them.
The Pope
The mass
The Sacraments
The Liturgy
Work of mercy
Prayers
Pilgrimages
Catholic doctrines
Serving the Church
Proclaiming the Gospel
Ministries
Families
Etc., etc.
Your mentioned of CCR history is not true. Catholic Charismatic Renewal has nothing to do with Protestant Charismatic. CCR has nothing to do with Protestantism. CCR is Catholic.
CCR is world wide, not regional. Therefore look at the bigger picture.
If you can do better to serve the Church, good, by all means do. CCR is just doing their bits, which is amazing, the Holy Spirit is amazing, because these people come from humble background and can do big things.
CCR is a renewal of Catholics in their Catholic faith by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Do you know that the CCR can be more Catholics by their devotion to the Catholic faith and practices?
It is that simple. Anything Catholic, they are given the power of the Holy Spirit to love and embrace them.
The Pope
The mass
The Sacraments
The Liturgy
Work of mercy
Prayers
Pilgrimages
Catholic doctrines
Serving the Church
Proclaiming the Gospel
Ministries
Families
Etc., etc.
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semper_catholicus
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I’ve watched those videos before: they’re quite good.
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Spyridon
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That’s not true.
Take the Alexandrian Rite for example. You have the Coptic usage used by Copts, and then you have the Ge’ez usage used by the Ethiopians and Eritreans.
Look at the Byzantine Rite. You’ve got two different usages (Greek or Slavic) of two different Liturgies (The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and the DL of St. Basil).
There are also other Liturgies and various usages in other Eastern Rites.
Take the Alexandrian Rite for example. You have the Coptic usage used by Copts, and then you have the Ge’ez usage used by the Ethiopians and Eritreans.
Look at the Byzantine Rite. You’ve got two different usages (Greek or Slavic) of two different Liturgies (The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and the DL of St. Basil).
There are also other Liturgies and various usages in other Eastern Rites.
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