Trail of Blood and nowadays Baptists

[James_Least]

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Sir Your run to sola scriptura does not withstand your own Biblical injunctions.

Your poor grasp of History is even worse than your lack of understanding of what Catholics actually Believe. I reference your mention of a daily sacrifice. Why not take some time, while your here, to actually look-up on a Real Catholic site those Beliefs of Catholics that you think you think you know so well?

Read what real Catholics believe rather than that trite Pablum you’ve been spoon-fed from Pastor Billy-Bob of the great Bayou Baptist Brethren Breathed by Christ Community Church. Here you are referring us to your sources so we can “git us an edumakashun” about what alls wrong with us. So why not take a stab and enlighten your closed mind with what we really believe.

The Major Problem you have with “Trail & Blood” & your Book is that while you may
be able to find a specific Baptistic belief within 1 or more of these oft-time heretical
groups you can not find a continuous & consistent pattern of Baptistic beliefs across these groups which were even more separated by Distance & Time than you & you supporters can document.

Not to mention the various Protestant Writers, Historians & groups that have written to disavow & refute your referenced materials as Well. Knox would be one & the Author of “Trail of Blood” himself actually wrote & refuted this work in his later life. So Literally you have no legs to stand on. Not even the Bible with clearly refutes sole scriptura. As do Paul & Peter & James… Guess you’re just flat out of luck & out of options.

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The weaker the argument, the stronger the words. Sounds as if you may be having difficulty convincing yourself of what the facts might be.

I am not defending T of B or any other writings of men/women. God wrote only one Bible. Let us throw out all the writings of men and see what God really said.That way we do not have to fill in the gap between Constantine the Great and the Apostle Peter. We will all be giving an account to the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Holy See. The Accounting Book will be the Bible not the Catechism.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. Are we ready?

Discerning just who the real heretics are may have to wait until the fulfillment of I Cor. Ch. 3, vss. 11-15 in particular.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Have a blessed day,

May I pray for our enlightenment?

James Least

 

[James_Least]

Where is this supposed lineage of “Baptist-believing Christians” that you are referring to? Can you tell me what evidence there is of those who believed in such beliefs as Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide between the years of 100AD and 1500AD? Where is your proof to support your outlandish claims?

The problem here is, you can’t provide any such proof. You can’t try to use the same text that’s been used by the Catholic church for almost 2000 years to justify your beliefs. To do so is mere intellectual dishonesty.

This lineage is more: Bible believing Christians. The promises of Jesus: “Lo, I am with you, always, even unto the end of the age; I will never leave you nor forsake you; I will send you another Comforter–to lead you in all Truth.” There are more. The Comforter is not a man.

If we cannot agree that the Word of God is the only rule of faith and practice, we have no basis for a discussion. In the final analysis, the Word of God trumps the traditions of men. See I Cor. 3 and Mt. 7:21-23.

Selah,

James Least

 

[imkingdad]

You did not trace it. You referenced me to a book. While I found the second volume of that book, I’m not going to read it. Tell me exactly what it traces through.

Unless you want me to make an argument and back it up by saying “It’s in book x”

By the way, what you call “Scripture” didn’t exist 1500 years before Luther. Or do you think it magically came out of nowhere?

And by the way, your theology is very much built on the Protestant movement, I’m going to go with “If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…”

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Following James Least POV & Belief structure it being in any Book that Isn’t the Bible is in & of itself insufficent. Since James is a KJV Bible believer practicing from a Sola Scriptura Position If he Can Not prove it from the Bible itself he has FAILED his Own test of authenticity & accuracy. Again Jimmy Using your own Rules of engagement you LOSE!

 

[imkingdad]

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The weaker the argument, the stronger the words. Sounds as if you may be having difficulty convincing yourself of what the facts might be.

I am not defending T of B or any other writings of men/women. God wrote only one Bible. Let us throw out all the writings of men and see what God really said. We will all be giving an account to the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Holy See. The Accounting Book will be the Bible not the Catechism.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. Are we ready?

Discerning just who the real heretics are may have to wait until the fulfillment of I Cor. Ch. 3, vss. 11-15 in particular.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Have a blessed day,

May I pray for our enlightenment?

James Least

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James I do Not desire the Prayers of a Heretic. Of One who is so Intelligentually Vacuous that he has no Historical support No Biblical support No Unassailable Teaching Authority. Nothing but a Banging cymbal & a clanging Gong. One who has been & continues to be Blown about by every wind or breeze of changing doctrine, one who harkens, with his Itching Ears after any Knave in a Preachers suit.

You lack of scriptural substance & references are almost laughable. Your inability to defend your initial choices of Protestant Literature to support your Position Failed Miserably. Now you Flee to the rascals refuge that You Only have the Correct Discernment By some rare event of Divine revelation to You alone That has somehow suggested that those that are in disagreement with you are lesser than you and need to fear the wraith of the Living God.

Oh Pray Tell Can you Prove that your Personal Divine Revelation is from God ( and not satan or 1 of his minions?) perhaps your can use the Bible to show us how your Have these special Gifts. How you alone were singled out by God to receive these revelations. Perhaps you can use the OT Deut. scriptures to Verify your status as Prophet.

Good Luck with That. Should take you about close to Forever to do that. & while you’re off doing that please take your sanctimonious attitude with you too. Don’t leave it here cluttering up the place.

 

[James_Least]

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Following James Least POV & Belief structure it being in any Book that Isn’t the Bible is in & of itself insufficent. Since James is a KJV Bible believer practicing from a Sola Scriptura Position If he Can Not prove it from the Bible itself he has FAILED his Own test of authenticity & accuracy. Again Jimmy Using your own Rules of engagement you LOSE!

Bless you for your continuing tirade using poor English Grammar.

Want to use the St. Joseph’s Bible? Let us get into the Word of God and leave the commandments of men–in fact anything secular. Let’s start with Mt. 16:18 and the Primacy of Peter. There is a sizeable schism between Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics regarding the papacy and the infallibility thereof. This has been unresolved for over a thousand years. Are the Orthodox right? Both sides cannot be right. Both could be wrong. Now what?
.

Study your Bible brother, it will save your soul. Your Catechism cannot do that.

Peace,

James Least

 

[James_Least]

dont know if you are familiar with the masonic lodges " raising "ceremony. its eerily like the mode of believers baptism that the baptist follow. just the masons dont use water and there is some other symbology there. also the masons to some degree follow the teachings of the gnostics which were one of the first heresies the Church had to contend with. are you trying to say that the baptist have their roots in gnosticism? peace.

The F&AM line up more with the LDS-Salt Lake, probably the group in Missouri as well. The Missouri group claims to have a legal document which says they are the group with direct authority from Joseph Smith Jr. founder of Mormonism. Apparently the Salt Lake City group are apostate usurpers. Interesting.

Re: Gnostics: An earlier heresy was salvation by works–it still permeates the ranks of large so-called Christian groups. Man likes to think he can do something good to earn heaven and then to keep heaven. “Not by acts of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us by the washing of regeneration in The Word.”

I am not saying Baptists have their roots in any “ism”. My point is: Many Baptistic practices can be found in the Book of Acts. This is not about a group with a specific name. The names have been many. This is about a faith and practice which can be found in every generation since the first New Testament Church–you know–the one Jesus is building against which the gates of hell will not prevail. It can be found in Rome, but not married to the Empire. It can be found in Wittenburg–not in fellowship with Luther. Similar observations can be made for most centers of “religious enlightenment”. Paul even preached The Gospel on Mars Hill in Athens–to the Stoics and Epicureans.

The Gospel is making another trip around the globe. The fields are ready for harvest. Who is on the Lord’s side?

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Peace,

James Least

 

[OmegaSupreme]

As I’ve stated elsewhere before…Fundamentalists don’t let facts get in the way of their argument.

James: You still have not answered my question regarding evidence of your church’s lineage between the years 100AD and 1500AD. Also regarding your quotes about the Bible being the only true rule of faith. What answer do you have for where the Bible came from and about the souls of Christians who believed in Christ prior to the existence of a NT canon? Also, what is your explanation for 2 Thessalonians 2:15? Do you agree that oral tradition was necessary for those who sought to follow Christ prior to an established NT canon?

 

[James_Least]

As I’ve stated elsewhere before…Fundamentalists don’t let facts get in the way of their argument.

James: You still have not answered my question regarding evidence of your church’s lineage between the years 100AD and 1500AD. Also regarding your quotes about the Bible being the only true rule of faith. What answer do you have for where the Bible came from and about the souls of Christians who believed in Christ prior to the existence of a NT canon? Also, what is your explanation for 2 Thessalonians 2:15? Do you agree that oral tradition was necessary for those who sought to follow Christ prior to an established NT canon?

One more time: This is not about “my church”. If you mean Baptist Church, there is no such entity. This is about who has the keys of the kingdom of God and The Faith, once, for all delivered unto the saints. It is the same contention the Roman Catholics make with one fatal departure: Jesus gave kingdom authority to a man and a succession of men–Apostolic succession, papacy, holy see. This is a foundational, pivotal argument.

The holy see of Rome is either correct or they are usurpers. A usurper has counterfeit authority, which is no authority at all. If the holy see is correct, all others are usurpers. It cannot be “all of the above”.

Re: oral tradition. “Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God.” The Spirit The Holy leads in all Truth. God wrote the OT. He gave Israel the Tablets with the rules–while they were breaking them. He gave us Jesus. We crucified Him. He gave us the NT. Why do we not believe Him? We(man) hanged and burned the ones who translated The Word into the common vernacular. God would be justified in destroying all of us. “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

God will remove the scales from our eyes.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Peace,

James Least

 

[crazzeto]

The Orthodox had been persecuted by Catholics, but I don’t think ever by Protestants.

Trail of Blood Theory is a term I’ve not heard used before.

No, I don’t think it is reasonable to think that some ancient communities believed and worshiped God the way nowaday Baptists do. Early Church Christian writings are too specific about the Church being guided by Bishops, having a Priesthood and worship centered around the Most Holy Eucharist the Very Body and Very Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Catholics were persecuted by both Orthodox and Protestants, so we have you beat on the trail of blood

 

[James_Least]

Catholics were persecuted by both Orthodox and Protestants, so we have you beat on the trail of blood

Indeed the blood flowed on both sides after the eighth Henry of England started what is now Anglican/Episcopal churches; and some of his progeny returned the favor–was it Bloody Mary who reinstated the Vatican? Sorry, I need to verify my faulty memory.

Freedom of conscience is not a dogma of Catholics(all shades) and Protestants(reformed Catholics. There are Christians out there who have never been Catholic or Protestant.

Peace,

James Least

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Freedom of conscience is not a dogma of Catholics(all shades) and Protestants(reformed Catholics. There are Christians out there who have never been Catholic or Protestant.

You still have yet to provide anything even approaching proof for this spurious claim. Unless, of course, you are referring either to Gnostics or Messianic Jews, both of which are ancient Christian sects which died out but have experienced a rebirth of sorts within the last 100 years. Until you can provide actual proof of your “Bible-believing Christian” lineage during the dates that I previously specified, don’t ever expect anyone with half a brain and the ability to reason to ever take your ridiculous claims seriously.

 

[CaptainPicard]

I found the book online before. It was a long book and outwardly appeared somewhat scholarly, as far as his writing ability. I was surprised at how somebody intelligent enough to write a book could espouse the theories he was holding to.

Here’s a chart:
trailofblood.com/chart.htm
Look toward the bottom of the chart. Montanists, Novations, Paulicans, Puritans (in the fifth century?), Albigensians. These are the folks who he claims are his predecessors. I get a real kick out of this chart.

Here’s the book:
trailofblood.com/History%20Of%20Baptists.htm

Main Page
trailofblood.com/

 

[OHCAC]

Yes, Benedict. I usually know the Baptist ways to wiggle out of good Catholic exegesis of Scripture. John 6 is no problem for instance.

Hi Rory - would you please expound a little on 1) how you as a Baptist would wiggle out of John 6 and 2) how now as a Catholic (congratulations BTW!) you would respond to the Baptist having wiggled.

There are promises in both Testaments that lead one to see that the Gospel is not going to exist among merely a handful. Also noteworthy is the notion of scrifice, evident in the Mass, evident in every ordained priest, evident in the way of salvation explained for the layfolk in the Catholic Church.

Would you also please provide a few verses and any explanation that speaks to what you’re thinking about in reference to the gosple will not exist among merely a handful and the notion and need of sacrifice.

I’m also a former Baptist and have ongoing conversations with my Evangelical friends about a variety of topics. The more I can help them be aware of another way to view what they think they already know and why us crazy RCC’s actually know a little about the Bible, the better.

 

[crazzeto]

That’s sort of my point

 

[James_Least]

You still have yet to provide anything even approaching proof for this spurious claim. Unless, of course, you are referring either to Gnostics or Messianic Jews, both of which are ancient Christian sects which died out but have experienced a rebirth of sorts within the last 100 years. Until you can provide actual proof of your “Bible-believing Christian” lineage during the dates that I previously specified, don’t ever expect anyone with half a brain and the ability to reason to ever take your ridiculous claims seriously.

Not as much to prove as one may surmise. You guys have a serious stretch in terms of documentation from Constantine, circa 325 A.D. back to Peter being vicar of Christ. There are a lot of Catholics who do not believe in the Primacy of Peter. Who authored all of this confusion?

We do not have to stretch, fabricate and coverup–the Bible takes us all the way to eternity–without going through Rome or Constantinople. We have no yoke of bondage. We are free from the law of sin and death.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James Least

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Not as much to prove as one may surmise. You guys have a serious stretch in terms of documentation from Constantine, circa 325 A.D. back to Peter being vicar of Christ. There are a lot of Catholics who do not believe in the Primacy of Peter. Who authored all of this confusion?

Believe it or not, we actually have a paper trail to follow that goes back throughout the last 2000 years. Again, I implore you to study up on history (the Early Church Fathers, more specifically) to see this. Even Eastern Orthodox have to admit that the Bishop of Rome has historically held a special position.

We do not have to stretch, fabricate and coverup–the Bible takes us all the way to eternity–without going through Rome or Constantinople. We have no yoke of bondage. We are free from the law of sin and death.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Sorry, but in terms of history the New Testament canon covers a period ranging from roughly 4 BC to around 100 AD. I find it humorous that many Protestants like to believe that writings such as the Didache or Shepherd of Hermas never existed.

If you want to talk about stretching, fabricating, or covering up anything, just follow the lineage of your own church. You’ll find more than enough of it there.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Not as much to prove as one may surmise. You guys have a serious stretch in terms of documentation from Constantine, circa 325 A.D. back to Peter being vicar of Christ. There are a lot of Catholics who do not believe in the Primacy of Peter. Who authored all of this confusion?

We do not have to stretch, fabricate and coverup–the Bible takes us all the way to eternity–without going through Rome or Constantinople. We have no yoke of bondage. We are free from the law of sin and death.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James Least

that is funny. a calvary chapel believer told me when i ask him to show some history of his church, he pointed to the Bible. i told him, i am sorry but i dont see your church history being in the Bible. he got all confused and could not explain why he believed what he believes. faith alone wont do it.

 

[James_Least]

Believe it or not, we actually have a paper trail to follow that goes back throughout the last 2000 years. Again, I implore you to study up on history (the Early Church Fathers, more specifically) to see this. Even Eastern Orthodox have to admit that the Bishop of Rome has historically held a special position.

A paper trail, no doubt; and it is really quite confusing and contradictory. God is not the author of confusion. Let God be found true and every man a liar. This implicates all writings of men–holy and other wise. The Standard is the Word of God, not the commandments of men. A cursory look at history certainly points to Rome. But closer examination using The Word of God as the acceptance criteria, reveals a much different situation. A large portion of world history has been controlled by Rome–even today. That does not make it so. Truth is Truth whether we believe it or not, whether the majority agrees or not.

Sorry, but in terms of history the New Testament canon covers a period ranging from roughly 4 BC to around 100 AD. I find it humorous that many Protestants like to believe that writings such as the Didache or Shepherd of Hermas never existed.

If you want to talk about stretching, fabricating, or covering up anything, just follow the lineage of your own church. You’ll find more than enough of it there.

The problem is: the traditions/writings of men are not in the same league as the Word of God. There are many spurious documents in religious circles. Just because someone sits down and writes a religious document does not make the writing inspired by The Spirit, The Holy, (Pneuma Hagion). Modern example: Book of Mormon. This book is either inspired or not. Joseph Smith Jr. is a true prophet of God or he is not. If he is a true prophet, we should all be Mormons. Joseph said all religions are apostate and God has restored true religion using Joseph as the Prophet. There are millions of Mormons out there–they call themselves Christians. More confusion.

I have no denomination–I am not a Protestant. My opinions are extracted from The Word of God.

Why did Pope Paul kind of apologize for the things promulgated against Christians and Jews during the Inquisitions? Why would he need to apologize at all?

The Bride of Christ is without spot, wrinkle or blemish–waiting for Her Groom to return.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James least

 

[James_Least]

that is funny. a calvary chapel believer told me when i ask him to show some history of his church, he pointed to the Bible. i told him, i am sorry but i dont see your church history being in the Bible. he got all confused and could not explain why he believed what he believes. faith alone wont do it.

Does this seem confusing: If the Word of God does not stand alone as the only rule of faith and practice; and we add the traditions and commandments or unregenerated men, the whole thing becomes polluted-- there is no standard. There is no basis for discussion.

“Let God be found true, and every man a liar.”
“My Ways are not your ways, saith the Lord”

New Testament Churches are found throughout the NT–Pauline Epistles and Revelation. How they functioned is in the Book of Acts. The First New Testament Church was founded on the shores of Galilee by The Lord, Jesus Christ. He commissioned Her and sent Her out–preaching. This was the Church we find at Jerusalem, not Rome, in the Book of Acts. This book shows Paul going to Rome, not Peter. The Scripture and the Catholic Encyclopedia do not agree in many places. Who is right? Where does the Scripture say Peter ever went to Rome?

Peace,

James Least

 

[wisdomseeker]

The problem is: the traditions/writings of men are not in the same league as the Word of God. There are many spurious documents in religious circles. Just because someone sits down and writes a religious document does not make the writing inspired by The Spirit, The Holy, (Pneuma Hagion). Modern example: Book of Mormon. This book is either inspired or not. Joseph Smith Jr. is a true prophet of God or he is not. If he is a true prophet, we should all be Mormons. Joseph said all religions are apostate and God has restored true religion using Joseph as the Prophet. There are millions of Mormons out there–they call themselves Christians. More confusion.

I have no denomination–I am not a Protestant. My opinions are extracted from The Word of God.

Why did Pope Paul kind of apologize for the things promulgated against Christians and Jews during the Inquisitions? Why would he need to apologize at all?

The Bride of Christ is without spot, wrinkle or blemish–waiting for Her Groom to return.

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James least

Ok. so, should we all follow you and your enterpretation of the Scriptures then? are you the Church Jesus found?

:byzsoc: