Trans-priests and the gender wars

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When I was a teenager, the debate over women priests was still pretty strong and one of my own parish priests believed women would be ordained within our lifetime (and he was no wild-eyed radical).

I thought it would be really nice to be a female priest.

But at the end of the day, there was no getting around the fact that the Apostles were all men.

Nowadays, I shrink at the idea of being a priest, even if it were open to me. It’s a tremendous responsibility—eyes watching me constantly, watching for any slip up, the knowledge that people would be taking my advice and their salvation depends on it, or if I screw up and some malcontent uses it as an excuse to leave the Church.

No thanks.
 
Women cannot be priests because a Catholic priest by definition and by nature is male. There is no such thing as a female priest. Not just because the Church doesn’t allow it but because it is impossible. It would be like a man saying he can’t be a mother because God doesn’t allow it. Well, kind of – but saying he isn’t “allowed” misses the point – he can’t be a mother because a mother by definition and by nature is female, and there is no such thing as a male mother.

A priest stands in persona Christi (in the person of Christ) when he administers the sacraments. And the Church is the bride of Christ. Therefore her priests must be men.
 
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Jesus Christ, as God, did not have to follow the customs or conventions of His time. He chose 12 men. Pope John Paul II has made the statement that women cannot be priests. The Church has said this about transgender persons:

A 2000 document from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith concludes that sex-change procedures do not change a person’s sex. “The key point,” said the document, “is that the transsexual surgical operation is so superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If the person was a male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains female.” However, those who have undergone such a procedure are prevented from ordination or admission to consecrated religious life.[68]
 
It strikes me that most women who are in favour of women priests don’t want to be one themselves, it’s about a perceived equality issue. I think its about taking secular societal, concepts of equality and transplanting them into the Church.
 
nightshade said:
I think you are missing the point here.

I could be protesting, writing my bishop, posting on social media DEMANDING because of my “wants” and “desires” to be a priest contrary to Church teaching.

However, I’m not and neither should the men and women who want to change the Church teachings because of their own desires and ignorance of the true meaning behind priesthood and in persona Christi.
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People are demanding all the time that married men be allowed into the priesthood. And it can happen - we already have married EC and convert priests. So you could, for example, transfer to Eastern Catholicism and pursue the priesthood there.

I think advocates of women’s ordination have trouble seeing why it is a matter of unchangeable dogma whereas priestly celibacy is a matter of changeable discipline.

I dont have any desire to become a priest, so am not so fussed about the why’s and wherefores.
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
I have thought about the gender thing.
Trying to put myself in the place of a woman, especially a Catholic, I would feel bad if I wanted to become a priest.
Being ordained and given the opportunity to celebrate the Mass, that would be such a special, extraordinary thing.
But, if I were a woman the main thing standing in the way of finding a seminary would be the gender thing.
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It is not an artificial barrier. If someone imagines being a Catholic priest without being a man, they are imagining themselves in an imaginary priesthood. The Church has been very clear that in real life becoming a priest is something that happens to men, just as carrying a child is something that happens to women.
 
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“priestly celibacy” is not open for debate. Yes, things can be arranged for married men in certain circumstances but only in certain circumstances. Like Pope John Paul II and his comments about women priests which went beyond disciplinary force, it appears another Pope will have to say the same about any thoughts of abandoning the current rules regarding priestly celibacy. Poor Pope Paul VI had to deal with that in 1967.
 
edwest211 said:
“priestly celibacy” is not open for debate. Yes, things can be arranged for married men in certain circumstances but only in certain circumstances. Like Pope John Paul II and his comments about women priests which went beyond disciplinary force, it appears another Pope will have to say the same about any thoughts of abandoning the current rules regarding priestly celibacy. Poor Pope Paul VI had to deal with that in 1967.
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Non-celibate priests already exist and in significant numbers. And we are running ever shorter on the celibate variety. It is a possible solution.

I’d imagine a lot of folks pre 1960s would never imagine that use of Latin in the Mass or ad orientem or COTT were up for debate … until they were …
 
WOW! :confused:
Do you know every woman who has wished the priesthood was open to them?

I can tell you that, in my case, it had nothing to do with “power” and everything to do with service to God.
Coming from a mixed religion background (Mom was Catholic, Dad Episcopalian), I watched my Father’s woman pastor do many wonderful things for her community. She was an excellent preacher, opened her Church to the Community when they needed it, was attentive to her congregation and active in eccumenical efforts. She was beloved by many, including the Catholics in my fathers home town. She was also the must humble woman I had ever met, and I wanted to be just like her, but Catholic.
You are free to believe what you want, but know that your attitude is very judgemental, and part of the reason that many people I know have left the Church.
 
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No, more priests of the married variety will not help anything. You misunderstand the whole “liturgical reform.” Such things have a spiritual side that does not include secular ideas. This whole debate is sparked by secular thinking. The Church is not any institution. It was founded by Christ.

Communion on the Tongue was normative until an indult allowed Communion in the hand. Again, this is a spiritual decision. So, this “debate” had to be settled by spiritual, not secular means. A plan was put in place. I was there when the priest faced the people for the first time and spoke in the vernacular. This was the decision of Holy Mother Church and I obeyed. Secular thinking played no role.
 
That is the only reply? An accusation? And where are the facts/documents that show how many have left the Church over its not allowing women to be priests? Church teaching, nothing else, is all that is being presented.
 
I replied to a specific assumption made by a specific poster.

The attitude that women who support the ordination of women do so because of the desire for “power” in general, and “power over men” specifically, is demeaning and a perfect example of judgemental attitudes that do more to drive people away than bring them into the fold.

Many of the women I know/knew in the woman’s ordination movement are/were humble, holy woman who feel the are being called by God.
To ascribe nefarious motives to all of them is the antithesis of the Christian command to “love ones neighbor”.
 
Well, motives need to be examined. Some men are turned away from seminaries for various reasons.
 
CilladeRoma said:
judgemental attitudes that do more to drive people away
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Just by proclaiming the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Church gets accusations of being ‘judgmental’ these days, along with intolerant, homophobic and any other name calling that seeks to bury the Truth in relativism. People leave the Catholic Church because they dissent from a teaching of Jesus.

This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?
After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him
CilladeRoma said:
woman’s ordination movement are/were humble,
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If they were humble then it shouldn’t even be a question. They would accept the teaching of Jesus and His Church.
 
CilladeRoma said:
Many of the women I know/knew in the woman’s ordination movement are/were humble, holy woman who feel the are being called by God.
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I would think that a decision to become a priest is a deeply personal one, made after a lot of prayer and soul searching. The fact that the women you refer to were part of the ordination “movement”, as you stated, suggests that what was at the basis was less spiritual and more social or political.
 
I’m of two minds about the “movement” thing.
Most “movements” and the type of people in them really turn me off.
On the other hand, “if you don’t ask, the answer’s always no” and asking is more likely to be taken seriously if you ask as a group.
 
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