Trans-priests and the gender wars

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edwest211 said:
No, more priests of the married variety will not help anything. You misunderstand the whole “liturgical reform.” Such things have a spiritual side that does not include secular ideas. This whole debate is sparked by secular thinking. The Church is not any institution. It was founded by Christ.

Communion on the Tongue was normative until an indult allowed Communion in the hand. Again, this is a spiritual decision. So, this “debate” had to be settled by spiritual, not secular means. A plan was put in place. I was there when the priest faced the people for the first time and spoke in the vernacular. This was the decision of Holy Mother Church and I obeyed. Secular thinking played no role.
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So the decision to start using vernacular in the liturgy, to give one example, was in no way based on what you call “secular” (and what I would call “practical” or even “pastoral”) factors, such as a decrease in the learning, use and understanding (and therefore relevance) of Latin among the community in general?

And you think, in relation to disciplines, that the Church never considers secular/practical/pastoral factors? Not that it doesn’t or shouldn’t prioritise spiritual ones, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
The decrease in Latin education was artificially created. The local Catholic high school stopped its Latin class around 1970, just when outside secular forces were pressing their attack. Pastoral has nothing to do with the secular world which was creating its own separate version of reality in the 1970s. All were always welcome but fights were started because such things begin by creating and inventing anger over private decisions which people were free to make but which were contrary to the established order. “We’re grown adults! We’ll live how we want!!” Yeah. So??

The goal was to replace existing authority with the authority of radicals and anarchists. The Church listens to reasoned arguments but things that are not compatible are identified and rejected.
 
LilyM said:
Non-celibate priests already exist and in significant numbers. And we are running ever shorter on the celibate variety. It is a possible solution
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My understanding, though, is that even these priests are required to live considerable celibacy, though. All of Lent, all of Advent, before major feastdays… yes? Or is this just the Eastern Rite?
 
LilyM said:
So you could, for example, transfer to Eastern Catholicism and pursue the priesthood there.
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No.

If you became EC for other reasons, then, yes, you could potentially be ordained. (and this is only in the last few years!)

If you switch to EC because you want to be a priest, you will almost certainly be rejected (and if not, probably because you successfully hid it . . .)
edwest211 said:
“priestly celibacy” is not open for debate.
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In terms of marriage after ordination, yes, that is correct.

In terms of ordination of married men, no, it is a disciplinary practice, and could change, and in fact could resume the older practice of the Western church in which married men were ordained . . .
 
Thank you! My pastor is a Ukrainian Greek Catholic married priest.
 
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The bishops of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Metropolia in the U.S. issued a letter to priests and laity on that subject.
 
Were I fifteen years younger, or had the change come fifteen years ago . . .
 
“Those who were with him most of the way to the cross were women.”

Yes, following, not leading.

I’d like to mention one point, that after reading through the posts, no-one has mentioned.

God sent His SON. A male child, not a female child was born to be our Savior and Redeemer. And Jesus on the cross is male - not a female Jesus, who gave His Body and Body, His Life for us.
 
IMO, it is not “gender equality” as such a term is nonsensical. What it is, is gender superiority.
 
I think that it may be because of feminism, which teaches women to reject the gender roles that God has laid out. If my church hired a female pastor, I would go to church somewhere else. It’s not biblical and it must be rejected.
 
We are. English Teacher put forth a possibility, among many possible reasons ‘why’.

All we as Catholics need to know, however, is that whatever the reason God (not people, but God Himself) choose men only as priests (and it started with the Jewish People, of whom Jesus Himself was one), it remains today: The Church has no AUTHORITY to ordain women as priests.
 
I’m not sure if you are saying there should be women priests? Or just commiserating. I can get behind commiseration. Not disobedience.

I can understand that. But to me it’s like saying ‘Boy I wish I could get pregnant’ or ‘Man I wish I could be a mother superior’. I can’t; because that’s not who and what I am.

Sometimes, we just have to accept who we are, live humbly, and bow to the teaching authority of the Church.
 
I apologize if this has been mentioned in the thread already (I had to skip a large number of posts in the middle) but I wonder if the people insisting on women being accepted as priests are fighting as hard for men to be accepted as nuns? Somehow I seriously doubt it.
 
What I am saying is that I can understand why women who would like to serve as priests would be disappointed. It is not their fault that they were born female.
Most every other religion in the world accepts women as ministers.
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
We are all made in God’s image.
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No one said we weren’t. Being made in God’s image, though (which is all humans), does not in itself qualify any person to be a priest.
JoeShlabotnik said:
What I am saying is that I can understand why women who would like to serve as priests would be disappointed
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Then they don’t understand fully what a priest is.
JoeShlabotnik said:
Most every other religion in the world accepts women as ministers
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The Catholic faith is nothing if not countercultural. 🙂
 
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Can you name one man who has told you he would like to be a nun?
“whatistrue” seems to be a misnomer. 🙂
 
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