Transgender and communion?

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bobperk said:
but the policy was: girls in white dresses, boys in suits.
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I’d have been talking to the bishop the day that they required me to buy impractical clothes for a sacrament. We cannot hold a sacrament hostage over something that is an expense to the family.

As Confirmation teacher for years and years, we make the dress code known from day one. It says nothing about the color of the clothes, nothing that girls must wear dresses. To put a financial burden on families (seriously, spend hundreds of dollars on a white suit that will be worn exactly once?).

I could not have been confirmed there. I have physical deformities which make wearing a skirt a spectical. I would never be seen in public in a skirt. To force me to buy a white dress? No.

Our rules: No sleeveless, no spaghetti tops. No plunging neckline or backline, no high slits in skirts. No skin tight clothes, no bare midriff, no mini-skirts or shorts. No denim, no tennis shoes or flip flops. No T-shirts, no athletic wear.
 
If you were affirming me in a grave sin (or at least in grave matter), then yes, of course it would be grave matter for you. If you were affirming me in stealing a cookie from Mom’s cookie jar, then no, that would not be grave matter. I’m not sure what you mean by “affirm you, personally”. I’m a person, not a sin. Sin is something I do, not something I am.
 
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I’m not going to “go there” on this forum because I could come up with 100 hypotheticals that you and everybody else would then argue about for 100 posts. There are literally dozens of ways one could be somehow “involved” with a large public event. Also, none of us are priests faced with an actual penitent confessing, so all of our opinions on a particular event or parade are just a bunch of hot air.
 
You still have to show how marching in an event which explicately (no pun intended…) promotes all forms of perversity is not grave matter. The fact that you might be doing it as solidarity may mitigate your guilt as it evidences a confused conscience, but doesn’t affect the objective reality of the action itself.
 
Socrates92 said:
If you were affirming me in a grave sin (or at least in grave matter), then yes, of course it would be grave matter for you.
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Agreed. In my example, I wasn’t affirming a sin, but rather, a person. Important distinction. And therefore, it’s not sharing in grave matter or in grave sin, let alone mortal sin. QED.
Socrates92 said:
I’m nit sure what you mean by “affirm you, personally”.
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It’s simple. You stand up and proclaim, “I’m a sinner!”, and I stand up and say “Socrates is a great guy whom I respect and love!”. That’s not sharing in grave sin… or sin of any kind. 😉
 
TheLittleLady said:
I’d have been talking to the bishop the day that they required me to buy impractical clothes for a sacrament. We cannot hold a sacrament hostage over something that is an expense to the family.
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I am sure in the case of clothing either being physically difficult for a person to wear, or an expense to a poor family, there are ways that the school would help. This wasn’t one of those cases.

Also, Catholic schools have been mandating white dress for girls, suit for boys receiving First Communion for decades on end. It goes back to at least the 1950s to my knowledge. It’s not anything new, weird or impractical. I received my First Communion as part of a Catholic school class in the early 1970s and that’s what we wore. Most of the families in the parish were hourly workers with multiple kids and yet everybody managed to come up with something acceptable for their son or daughter to wear; it was generally considered a family occasion so usually there were not only special clothes, but also photos, gifts, and a family party. Like I said, if someone was really too poor, the parish would have helped just like they helped certain families with other expenses, such as by providing some odd jobs for the dad to do.
 
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Ok, I read the story. My previous comments were based off a news clip I saw on TV nearly a year ago.

Still pitiful that folks cannot submit to the Church, but instead out of pride need private ceremonies so they can wear a special outfit.
 
I feel like these people might not know Canon Law very well.
 
I’m going to call your bluff. The fact that you bothered to claim that you could have 100 hypotheticals, but are unwilling to mention one, makes me think that this statement of yours is just air. Which gives the impression that you’re trying to dodge my point. Which implies that I won that argument.
 
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bobperk said:
Still pitiful that folks cannot submit to the Church, but instead out of pride need private ceremonies so they can wear a special outfit.
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That’s the point. They would never have accepted a ‘private ceremony’, because it wasn’t about the ‘special outfit’ – it was about the issue that was being attempted to be imposed on the parish. Having being offered both First Holy Communion and the suit, but not the public platform, they said “no thanks.”
 
bobperk said:
Still pitiful that folks cannot submit to the Church, but instead out of pride need private ceremonies so they can wear a special outfit.
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I draw the line here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a private First Communion ceremony for whatever reason. I have known a number of families who requested them for reasons having nothing to do with outfit. Sometimes it’s a matter of when other family members can attend, and sometimes they just feel that this is a family occasion and they would like it to focus more on their family and less on a whole bunch of kids marching up in line. The school class First Communion Masses are often rather hectic events, with limitations on how many seats for each family, when photos can be taken, and teachers herding the kids here and there. I can totally see how a particular family might not find that the kind of prayerful experience they want for their child, or how certain children, including but not limited to special needs children, wouldn’t do very well with it.
 
Socrates92 said:
I’m going to call your bluff. The fact that you bothered to claim that you could have 100 hypotheticals, but are unwilling to mention one, makes me think that this statement of yours is just air. Which gives the impression that you’re trying to dodge my point.
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Except that I did give a counter-example, which you have been unable to dodge.
Which implies that I won that argument.
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Well, yippee! That and a quarter will get ya… umm… well… a quarter and a warm happy feeling in the pit of your stomach? 🤔
 
It’s a good lesson in humiliy for someone to call my bluff. Bless you, brother. I do have a number of hypos in my head but will refrain from posting them, and I am quite cheerful about you choosing to think I don’t have any.
 
Sins have varying levels of gravity. Equating venial sins with grave matter isn’t really correct.
 
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This was my reply to Tis_Bearself, not you. I acknowledged your example, and went on to refute it.
 
Haha, ok then. I have to ask though. If you thought the conversation wasn’t worth having, why did you bother piping in?
 
Nah… No warm fuzzy feeling. I’m used to winning arguments. 😛
 
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I had one point to make, and I made it. I feel that if people wish to think about the topic further, they can do so without additional posts by me. If they simply think I am wrong or blowing hot air, then I have saved a lot of needless posts.

I often like to make points for the sake of triggering thought in those who want to think about it, but not argue or debate about them. I don’t have any great desire to win a debate in most cases, unless someone is making an incorrect statement about Church teaching that I feel will confuse neophyte readers or reflect badly on the Church. I’m not seeing that in this thread.
 
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