Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

[cjforJesus]

Perhaps the gender we are born with is not as important to God as what you imagine. As it says in Galatians 3:28:

It seems you imagine that based on that bible verse that it is OK for guys to have their penises turned inside out? That bible verse is only stating that when we are baptised we all become one in Jesus Christ.

 

[Havard]

She was clearly an hero

Please don’t give the “an hero” trolling meme a mention here. It’s sick, and is best forgotten.

 

[Path_Finder]

Please don’t give the “an hero” trolling meme a mention here. It’s sick, and is best forgotten.

Agreed.

In fact, it crossed my mind as well, that there is certainly a chance, a copy-cat suicide could occur somewhere, 1 if not more.

A few years ago, there was a rash of teen suicides like as a fad.

I can websearch “town hit by teen suicides”, it brings up different locales around the nation where this has happened.

Just like when there have been some beheadings in the Middle East, somehow, doing that found itself back to our shores though, certainly isolated incidences.

 

[manualman]

But chromosomes can get screwed up in many ways. There are XO people, XXY people, XXX people, people with chimerism (both XX and XY), etc. I hesitate to suggest anything so fallible to a birth defect can be representative of something so infallible as one’s gender.

We are getting to the point genetically where parents can force their child in-utero to make the genitalia of their choosing – does this mean that the parents are also changing the child’s gender?

It appears that you are conflating transgender with “intersexed.” AFAIK, intersexed refers to cases where the objective evidence of the person’s sex is ambiguous and not readily determinable, such as you mention above. Transgender refers to those who are deeply convinced that their gender is the opposite of what the biological reality of their sex. I suspect that the “sex change” operations cautiously approved of by the Church were also cases of “intersex”, not transgender.

I skipped a few pages, but I’ve heard no evidence yet that this poor kid was intersexed.

It’s a good thing to be sensitive to people’s feelings. But I’m much alarmed that as a culture we are inching closer all the time to adopting a social and even legal standard in which feelings trump objective reality. If you really, truly deeply FEEL that you are Bill Gates, then who is that stupid banker to deny you your withdrawal request? Worse than cases of individual madness, societal madness lies down this road.

May God have mercy on the poor boy.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Agreed.

In fact, it crossed my mind as well, that there is certainly a chance, a copy-cat suicide could occur somewhere, 1 if not more.

A few years ago, there was a rash of teen suicides like as a fad.

I can websearch “town hit by teen suicides”, it brings up different locales around the nation where this has happened.

Just like when there have been some beheadings in the Middle East, somehow, doing that found itself back to our shores though, certainly isolated incidences.

Yes, suicide clusters are ANOTHER reason society needs to condemn and control those who seek publicity with threats and acts of of self-harm - especially under the guise of LGBTQ activism.

“Fix Society”???

Oh pahleeeese!
Hunger? Homelessness? Domestic violence? Child pornography? Sex slavery? Substance abuse/addiction? Environmental vandalism? Greed? War? Abortion?

Nope.
The LGBTQ lobby wants to fight for this persons “right” to use the same bathroom as school girls. The “problem” with society apparently is that we are too straight.

Oh and here’s a news flash - LGBTQ activists (almost) unanimously oppose the catholic Church on issues such as gender-balanced marriage and child raising, pregnancy planning/termination, divorce, sex before marriage…

 

[SWolf]

The vast majority benefit substantially, a small minority do not and an even small minority have it made worse pretty much always due to their religion strongly condemning it.

Please cite source.

Tennis champion Rene Richards:
If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was—a totally intact person. I know deep down that I’m a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don’t want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to cross dress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I’m not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation…and I discourage them all.’ —Rene Richards, “The Liaison Legacy,” Tennis Magazine, March 1999.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Lion IRC;12632224:

I’m going to take a break from posting in this topic.
:crutches:

Upset that more of us depressed/at one point suicidal individuals didn’t apologize to you for being so selfish and having a mental illness?

Hey, thanks for baiting me back into the thread.
(Now I’m really interested the the discussion)

Wanna know what the most insidious form of mental illness plaguing society is in the 21st Century?
Secular humanism/atheism and the related absence of obedience/trust humans owe God.
Yeah…some ppl DO doubt God.

I’ve never had the sort of despair or depression to which you allude.

That’s probably because;
Not tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, or nakedness, peril, sword…neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,

 

[meltzerboy]

Hey, thanks for baiting me back into the thread.
(Now I’m really interested the the discussion)

Wanna know what the most insidious form of mental illness plaguing society is in the 21st Century?
Secular humanism/atheism and the related absence of obedience/trust humans owe God.
Yeah…some ppl DO doubt God.

I’ve never had the sort of despair or depression to which you allude.

That’s probably because;
Not tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, or nakedness, peril, sword…neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,

Well, welcome back!

I see we’re now discussing secular humanism and atheism. I think I can connect the dots to the topics of transgenderism, depression, and suicide. Are you suggesting that only atheists suffer from depression, attempt/commit suicide, and are transgender?

 

[Path_Finder]

I think the main reason people leave conversations is often when they start to become too confrontational, heated, passionate. Or they might perceive a response to be negative.

So, it’s all about that as being as clever as snakes and innocent as doves.

And quite simply, some might have better debating skills than myself sometimes, that is waving the white flag but so it goes. :stretcher:

 

[Lion_IRC]

Well, welcome back!

Thanks.

…I see we’re now discussing secular humanism and atheism.

Yes - as a function of mental illness and wilful or inadvertent separation from God.
But as you can see, I was addressing my post to someone else so it’s not really WE who are discussing it.

… I think I can connect the dots to the topics of transgenderism, depression, and suicide.

You can?
Good.

…Are you suggesting that only atheists suffer from depression, attempt/commit suicide, and are transgender?

No, but thanks for the observation.
Atheism is not the only cause of social dysfunction.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I hope we can discuss the theological matter of the trans person who effectively claims that God gave them the wrong body and that their immaterial, non-biological “soul” somehow has a gender opposite to their material/physical body.

 

[Darryl1958]

That is a good point. This suicide serve no purpose whatsoever in spite of what the young man posted trying to ascribe nobility to his act .

There are still people wanting to create a hero out of the person who committed suicide. It needs to be reiterated therefore that suicide is either an act of profound mental illness and anguish, or of an unbounded psychopathy that takes a perverse joy of continuing to hurt those who are left behind.
Any suicide is some combination of pitiful and abhorrent, but for others to make suicide into an heroic act as a part of an agenda is unconscionable.

 

[estesbob]

There are still people wanting to create a hero out of the person who committed suicide. It needs to be reiterated therefore that suicide is either an act of profound mental illness and anguish, or of an unbounded psychopathy that takes a perverse joy of continuing to hurt those who are left behind.
Any suicide is some combination of pitiful and abhorrent, but for others to make suicide into an heroic act as a part of an agenda is unconscionable.

Due to his interrelation with his friends, their parents and social media he came to believe suicide was a noble thing. His parents tried to remove these negative influences from his life and now they are the ones being condemned

 

[J_Peterson]

I hope we can discuss the theological matter of the trans person who effectively claims that God gave them the wrong body and that their immaterial, non-biological “soul” somehow has a gender opposite to their material/physical body.

I wasn’t aware the soul had anything to do with the gender or sex of the person. If I remember my Aquinas correctly, it’s matter that differentiates people from one another, not the soul. Souls without matter would be indistinguishable from one another (if we were somehow able to “view” them). It’s not about the soul and body differening from one another, it’s the brain and the body which allegedly don’t match up.

 

[St_Francis]

I wasn’t aware the soul had anything to do with the gender or sex of the person. If I remember my Aquinas correctly, it’s matter that differentiates people from one another, not the soul. Souls without matter would be indistinguishable from one another (if we were somehow able to “view” them). It’s not about the soul and body differening from one another, it’s the brain and the body which allegedly don’t match up.

I think male and female souls must differ, because ordination leaves a mark on men’s souls but not on women’s souls.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Have a sex change Op - then you can be ordained?
Ta Da!
“Women priests”

 

[Lion_IRC]

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-30642056

First serving sex-change vicar Carol Stone dies

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[manualman]

I wasn’t aware the soul had anything to do with the gender or sex of the person. If I remember my Aquinas correctly, it’s matter that differentiates people from one another, not the soul. Souls without matter would be indistinguishable from one another (if we were somehow able to “view” them). It’s not about the soul and body differening from one another, it’s the brain and the body which allegedly don’t match up.

I’m no Thomistic scholar, but if I remember my own formation, Catholicism rejects the idea that the human being is a soul contained in an otherwise irrelevant body. Rather, we are a UNION of body and soul. They aren’t really separate things and death is only a temporary consequence of sin. This was the starting point for JP2’s Theology of the Body (How are bodies work says things about who we are).

 

[J_Peterson]

I think male and female souls must differ, because ordination leaves a mark on men’s souls but not on women’s souls.

That’s an interesting point and bit of a wrench in my thinking.

I’ll have to see if I have the motivation to look it up later. I remember the reason Aquinas concluded that each angel is the only member their own species was because if they didn’t differ at that level they would not be distinguishable from one another. He delt with a similar issue with the human soul by concluding that the matter we are made of is what differentiates us from each other. What I can’t remember is if the human souls differ from one another when separated or if they have sex/gender. Personally I think not but I’m not so sure (as if anybody is haha).

Sorry about the off topic-ness of this. Should take it to the philosophy section.

 

[Lion_IRC]

A newly created soul has no PRIOR discarnate gender identity therefore the only gender one can have is that which they experience from their earthly body.

And God doesn’t mistakenly give people the wrong body.