Transgender

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Bodily integrity disorder is not consistently (if at all) regarded as a delusion.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4094630/

“A robust change of orientation took place in 2005, when Michael First published the first systematic study of a consistent sample of individuals who desired amputation of a healthy limb.2 Structured interviews were conducted via telephone with 52 subjects who desired amputation (only four were female). None of the subjects in the study were delusional, and all except one presented the onset of the desire during childhood…”

There is scientific opinion that this disorder is traceable to a neurological defect in a part of the brain which establishes a model of our physical self.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19132621/
*“Neurological results suggest that BIID is a brain disorder producing a disruption of the body image, for which parallels for stroke patients are known.” *
Oh, I see that there is a psychological definition along with an everyday definition of delusional :o
 
I disagree about neuroplasticity. It doesn’t hold water in cases of autism or Alzheimer’s. The brain may very slowly and with a lot of therapy use different neuro pathways, but this research is not without controversy. And many scam doctors are making big money off of parents whose child was diagnosed with autism.
I know nothing about the neurology of autism, but I have never heard that treatments based on neuroplasticity were used for either autism or Alzheimer’s, for which it would seem clear that neuroplasiticity-based treatments would not work.

NP is limited, but does seem to have usefulness is certain types of situations. I am sorry to hear that anyone would scam anyone, esp relatives of people with disabilities.
 
Right. I also think this is part of the reason why there is more male to female transgendered people, than female to male… In general, girls can be “tomboys”, but boys get told they can’t like “girly” things.

I think society, even when well meaning, can hurt people at times when it comes to things like this.
This seems to make sense. One thing I always wondered was how people knew what being the opposite sex felt like?
 
This seems to make sense. One thing I always wondered was how people knew what being the opposite sex felt like?
“Feel like” is probably one of the few ways to express what they are experiencing. Try explaining faith, being in love, knowing you’ve found the person you’ll marry and you can get an idea how difficult it is to describe your experience to someone who has never has had the same.
 
Oh, I see that there is a psychological definition along with an everyday definition of delusional :o
Oh yes there is a psychological definition. And it is usually the most “politically correct” definition. The APA and it’s DSM are very politically determined.
 
Oh yes there is a psychological definition. And it is usually the most “politically correct” definition. The APA and it’s DSM are very politically determined.
Partly politically determined, but there is also a commercial aspect.

Before 1972, homosexuality was also categorized as a psychiatric disorder, but it offended the paying customers, a lot of whom were gay, and so it was changed.
 
Partly politically determined, but there is also a commercial aspect.

Before 1972, homosexuality was also categorized as a psychiatric disorder, but it offended the paying customers, a lot of whom were gay, and so it was changed.
Hummm. Having fun is a sin so just unmake it a sin. Convenient but not or God.
 
Truth vs. Transgenderism Sparks Raging Debate at Bloomsburg University

When pro-transgender college students claim they can morph from male to female at will and “force” their biology to change overnight to satisfy a feeling, it’s easy to understand how Gender Ideology is harming critical thought and twisting the truth about human nature.
To challenge the transgender movement’s claims, TFP Student Action volunteers visited Bloomsburg University in Pennsylvania on April 24, 2017. What they witnessed and captured on film during their peaceful demonstration is revealing.
Thanks.

Ed
 
I appreciate your response here.

No, surgery is not always necessary, hormones may be enough for example. People do not come out as some sort of transgender lightly. The effects on their personal life can be huge including both relationships and income. I think there’s a misconception that most people have “bottom” surgery; they don’t to my understanding. Anything else, really, is common plastic surgery that no one seems to decry. For that matter it is kind of telling, to me, that there is not much push back on “normal” plastic surgery. Is not, other than reconstructive surgery, it a mutilation and modification of how we were created to have huge boobs, etc.?
I do appreciate your statement that gender transition is not a decision made lightly. After dealing with a lifetime of waking each morning with the gnawing inner realization that I was not the boy my physical attributes indicated I was, I transitioned when I was 19. Before making that decision, my parents and I spent countless hours trying to discern if it would be a moral choice. My parents’ initial objections to the process changed to them helping me decide, and supporting my transition to existing in society as a young woman. We are a very conventional, conservative, Catholic family. I did fully transition, having gender confirmation surgery in 2006. I am not waving banners trying to supplant societies concept of male and female. The understanding that my brain structure being female could be the reason for my inner realization that I was female gave me solace in understanding that we were making the right decision. I don’t attribute my situation to “God making a mistake”. His being a Perfect Being would contradict that. God does not make mistakes. I looked at my situation as a birth anomally that medical science could address.

Theresa
 
I do appreciate your statement that gender transition is not a decision made lightly. After dealing with a lifetime of waking each morning with the gnawing inner realization that I was not the boy my physical attributes indicated I was, I transitioned when I was 19. Before making that decision, my parents and I spent countless hours trying to discern if it would be a moral choice. My parents’ initial objections to the process changed to them helping me decide, and supporting my transition to existing in society as a young woman. We are a very conventional, conservative, Catholic family. I did fully transition, having gender confirmation surgery in 2006. I am not waving banners trying to supplant societies concept of male and female. The understanding that my brain structure being female could be the reason for my inner realization that I was female gave me solace in understanding that we were making the right decision. I don’t attribute my situation to “God making a mistake”. His being a Perfect Being would contradict that. God does not make mistakes. I looked at my situation as a birth anomally that medical science could address.

Theresa
Can you share with us anything of your “experience” prior to initiating transition, and what alternatives you considered / tried?
 
Can you share with us anything of your “experience” prior to initiating transition, and what alternatives you considered / tried?
My first experiences were pre-K age realizing I was being grouped with the boys, and thinking to myself I belonged with the girls. I always felt more comfortable interacting with my girl cousins, but received the subtle messages that’s not what boys do. Throughout school I surpressed my feelings as much as I could. For a time I thought entering the priesthood would be a way of dealing with my life. When I was 13 to 14, my issues became more intense. I tried dressing like a girl, my mother found out, I saw a therapist, and the counseling center at my high school. I went to an all boys Jesuit prep. The priests at school were very understanding. They encouraged me to emulate male saints and to accept physically being a boy. I did do that, but the constant inner gnawing that I was being dishonest with myself everyday that I tried to be a boy continued. My grades suffered. I couldn’t face the mornings. I dreaded becoming more physically mature in a male sense. After my first semester at college during the holidays, I wouldn’t get out of bed. My parents consulted our doctor, he recommended a psychologist, who recommended a gender therapist, she recommended to my parents and I that we consider my begining the transition process. Spiritually, my parish priest advised it was a situation beyond his understanding. As far as I know, there are opinions, but no official Church policy regarding transition and corrective surgery.

Theresa
 
I do appreciate your statement that gender transition is not a decision made lightly. After dealing with a lifetime of waking each morning with the gnawing inner realization that I was not the boy my physical attributes indicated I was, I transitioned when I was 19. Before making that decision, my parents and I spent countless hours trying to discern if it would be a moral choice. My parents’ initial objections to the process changed to them helping me decide, and supporting my transition to existing in society as a young woman. We are a very conventional, conservative, Catholic family. I did fully transition, having gender confirmation surgery in 2006. I am not waving banners trying to supplant societies concept of male and female. The understanding that my brain structure being female could be the reason for my inner realization that I was female gave me solace in understanding that we were making the right decision. I don’t attribute my situation to “God making a mistake”. His being a Perfect Being would contradict that. God does not make mistakes. I looked at my situation as a birth anomally that medical science could address.

Theresa
I must praise you for your courage and honesty to yourself and toward others in coming out. I would think that most transgender people go through a similar experience to yours of deep soul-searching. This process of transitioning is generally not a whim by any means. Nor is it caused by a mental disorder. It should not be a political issue or a moral one, but, no matter, it is both in our rather conservative, puritanical society, which is forever on the lookout for global leftist campaigns and conspiracies set on destroying the moral and religious values of Western culture. But when more people know the facts of individuals such as yourself, or are at least open to hearing them, many, I think, will reconsider their initial reactions, which are based a lot on fear, anger, self-righteousness, and ignorance.
 
. My parents consulted our doctor, he recommended a psychologist, who recommended a gender therapist, she recommended to my parents and I that we consider my begining the transition process. Spiritually, my parish priest advised it was a situation beyond his understanding. As far as I know, there are opinions, but no official Church policy regarding transition and corrective surgery.

Theresa
I am sorry for the suffering you went through. I’m wondering if you mind if I ask a few questions? I guess where I’m struggling is that it would appear that we as a society are still learning a great deal about this, we are really struggling with how to handle the situation. My original question was based on the best way to handle this with an eye towards social justice, empathy, and love. I’d be curious as to your opinions.

For someone fully transitioned, I’m guessing my questions are less relevant depending on the case.

In most cases, I honestly don’t care where a person goes to the bathroom. I go into public bathrooms with my kids regardless because that’s just wise. I’m not afraid of gays or transgendered people. I am more skeptical of humanity at large. If it’s just me I don’t care.

Where things get tricky for me is a situation I experienced awhile back. A young lady in a martial arts class I was in could not be by me. She had been sexually assaulted a few years prior and being in close proximity with a man was just too much for her emotionally. I’ve had a family member sexually assaulted that had some PTSD issues with strange men. What do we do with a situation with a non physically transitioned girl who wants to use the girls locker room, if in fact there might be a girl in there who would have a severe problem with that persons genitalia?

Further, what about things like sports? A male transitioning to a female competing in a female bracket could well have a real advantage. (This is obviously not earth shatteringly important, but it does highlight, to me, some of the issues we might face).

In both situations if we just treat the person according to their identified gender that is good for them, but might then be unjust to others. If we try to go a third way, then we create a ‘separate but equal’ problem.

I’m sorry if this is overly ‘picky’, and I certainly don’t want to single you out. Just trying to wrap my mind around what is a complex issue for me, and given your experience you seem like a good source.
 
I am sorry for the suffering you went through. I’m wondering if you mind if I ask a few questions? I guess where I’m struggling is that it would appear that we as a society are still learning a great deal about this, we are really struggling with how to handle the situation. My original question was based on the best way to handle this with an eye towards social justice, empathy, and love. I’d be curious as to your opinions.

For someone fully transitioned, I’m guessing my questions are less relevant depending on the case.

In most cases, I honestly don’t care where a person goes to the bathroom. I go into public bathrooms with my kids regardless because that’s just wise. I’m not afraid of gays or transgendered people. I am more skeptical of humanity at large. If it’s just me I don’t care.

Where things get tricky for me is a situation I experienced awhile back. A young lady in a martial arts class I was in could not be by me. She had been sexually assaulted a few years prior and being in close proximity with a man was just too much for her emotionally. I’ve had a family member sexually assaulted that had some PTSD issues with strange men. What do we do with a situation with a non physically transitioned girl who wants to use the girls locker room, if in fact there might be a girl in there who would have a severe problem with that persons genitalia?

I don’t think it is fair to others to compromise their privacy. I think a person should be able to use the facilities appropriate to their outward appearance, but at the same time be appropriately discreet and respect the rights of others.

Further, what about things like sports? A male transitioning to a female competing in a female bracket could well have a real advantage. (This is obviously not earth shatteringly important, but it does highlight, to me, some of the issues we might face).

***I agree it can be an issue. I think the most simple way to address it i if your estrogen/testosterone ratio is within female range then you should be able to compete as a female.

In both situations if we just treat the person according to their identified gender that is good for them, but might then be unjust to others. If we try to go a third way, then we create a ‘separate but equal’ problem.

I’m sorry if this is overly ‘picky’, and I certainly don’t want to single you out. Just trying to wrap my mind around what is a complex issue for me, and given your experience you seem like a good source.
I noted my opinions after your questions. I’m really not an authority. I never was faced with the particular circumstances you noted. I just tried to answer as honestly as I could based on my own experience.

I do appreciate that you are looking at the whole situation with an open mind. I don’t see myself as a champion of transgender rights, or authority on the subject. I really just identify as woman who is a wife, daughter, sister and aunt, trying to make her way in the world, and loving and serving her God in doing so. I hope I was helpful.

Theresa
 
I appreciate your answers. I’m sorry if I put you on the spot, I didn’t mean to do so, and realized I did after the fact. I simply valued that you have a perspective I do not.

My biggest concern is that we have to value the dignity of the people going through this properly, and love them as we should. The suicide rates for transgendered individuals is too high. While I can’t empathize, I really want to make their lives better, while not over reacting in a way that can make things worse.

Again, I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
I assume you married after your transition procedures - was this a civil ceremony? Did your husband no your situation from the outset of your relationship?
We were married in 2010. The physical aspects of my transition were completed in June of 2006. Planning our wedding is one of the reasons I originally looked at this forum. It was an effort in trying to reconcile my religious and spiritual beliefs with the realities I faced in participating in my Catholic Faith as a woman. When I first began the transition process, my focus was on assimilating into society as a woman, and not on a relationship. I had hoped that someday I would meet a man who would love me, but it wasn’t my main consideration. I met my husband through my cousin and her circle of friends. When we started planning our wedding I was told that I couldn’t marry as a woman in the Catholic Church. I was aware that that could be an issue from my readings prior to transitioning. I would have transitioned anyway. The need to be myself was far too intense. After waiting, and hoping that things may change, with my mother’s help, I found a former Catholic priest who officiated at our wedding. The ceremony and reception were held at my parents’ home. I was legally a woman in the state of New Jersey at the time, so in a civil sense our marriage was routine. I was living as a woman when I met eventual husband. Initially he wasn’t aware of my history, but before we started dating I felt it was the correct thing to do to let him know of my past. As you can understand, there was a difficult period while he dealt with it, but eventually we did become a couple. It’s a very involved subject to put into a few words, but I hope I was able to shed some light on your questions.

Theresa
 
I appreciate your answers. I’m sorry if I put you on the spot, I didn’t mean to do so, and realized I did after the fact. I simply valued that you have a perspective I do not.

My biggest concern is that we have to value the dignity of the people going through this properly, and love them as we should. The suicide rates for transgendered individuals is too high. While I can’t empathize, I really want to make their lives better, while not over reacting in a way that can make things worse.

Again, I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I didn’t feel “put on the spot” You seem to be a very kind and considerate person, and I admire your charitable outlook.

Theresa
 
…I met my husband through my cousin and her circle of friends. When we started planning our wedding I was told that I couldn’t marry as a woman in the Catholic Church. I was aware that that could be an issue from my readings prior to transitioning. I would have transitioned anyway. The need to be myself was far too intense. After waiting, and hoping that things may change, with my mother’s help, I found a former Catholic priest who officiated at our wedding. The ceremony and reception were held at my parents’ home. I was legally a woman in the state of New Jersey at the time, so in a civil sense our marriage was routine.
I understand. By former catholic priest, do you mean a person no longer a priest, or simply a retired priest?

The Catholic marriage procedures include registering your marriage in Church records, which presumably could not happen, given your church records show you as a man and there is no process whatsoever to change that. Thus the wedding needed to be as you describe, with the former priest performing the role essentially in a civil capacity.

You certainly have endured some complex and unusual circumstances.
 
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