Transgendered people?

[SwizzleStick]

If you admit that it is a departure from the norm, and not as is claimed, “a wrong body,” then we have nothing to disagree about.

I don’t know or much care what process leads to those mentations; I do maintain that God does not give “someone the wrong body”. That is impossible. The soul is formed in and for that body.

Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay), are the result of a disorder of development. But unlike the anomalies being considered in the thread, no-one would consider “two-headism” (or the scientific term) a normal variation.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

Not to derail the thread, but two-headed people do exist. In fact, a baby (twins?) with that birth issue was recently born in Brazil. Also, google Abigail and Brittany Hensel, twin girls with one body. I saw a couple of documentaries about those twins.

Brazilian baby ‘born healthy with two heads… and both are suckling mother’s breasts’
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076954/Baby-heads-born-Brazil-Dicephalic-parapagus-twins-Emanoel-Jesus.html

Now, back to the thread.

 

[exnihilo]

There is biological evidence for brain differences between genders.

The goal of feminism is not to turn women into men, but rather to give women the freedom to move about in society without man-made barriers.

I don’t know what you mean by “metaphysical mind.”

Feminism is based on the assertion that men and women are equal. If not only the body but also the brain is different then feminism is pretty silly. It would be based on an absurd claim refuted by all scientific evidence.

By ‘metaphysical mind’ I really mean ‘a mind, which is necessarily metaphysical’. I’m drawing the distinction between brain and mind. Brain is the physical organ in which thinking occurs. The mind is that which really does the thinking and it is not physical. It is metaphysical.

The existence of a “metaphysical mind” does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.

I would substitute sexed for gendered. But I agree we need a brain, in this world, to express the thoughts of our mind and it would seem that this brain would be sexed like the rest of our bodies.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!

Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?

Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.

No such “huge amount of hatred” would ever be allowed to continue on this forum.

The truth is not hatred.

 

[GEddie]

Feminism is based on the assertion that men and women are equal. If not only the body but also the brain is different then feminism is pretty silly. It would be based on an absurd claim refuted by all scientific evidence.

By ‘metaphysical mind’ I really mean ‘a mind, which is necessarily metaphysical’. I’m drawing the distinction between brain and mind. Brain is the physical organ in which thinking occurs. The mind is that which really does the thinking and it is not physical. It is metaphysical.

I would substitute sexed for gendered. But I agree we need a brain, in this world, to express the thoughts of our mind and it would seem that this brain would be sexed like the rest of our bodies.

I’d day that every in eternity we will need the equivalent of our human head; we need something to see and smell from, and to hold our memories in.

And I’d stock with “gendered”. Sexed implies “motivated by sexual desire or behavior”, as when we say “oversexed” or “strongly sexed”, which was not what I meant.

ICXC NIKA

 

[exnihilo]

I’d day that every in eternity we will need the equivalent of our human head; we need something to see and smell from, and to hold our memories in.

God can do those things without a body. Of course we will get a resurrected body. The mind holds our memories.

And I’d stock with “gendered”. Sexed implies “motivated by sexual desire or behavior”, as when we say “oversexed” or “strongly sexed”, which was not what I meant.

Gender used to refer to grammar. I agree those ideas can come to mind when you hear the word sexed. But sexed can mean to a farmer that a chick has had its sex determined. I stick with the old meanings of words because I prefer the clarity of thought we once had.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

The Church considers that to be a disorder.
However, there is nothing to be gained by sticking this in somebody’s face, If they have already “changed.” (the gender does not really change, it’s in the DNA). IMNAAHO, we should use the name they have chosen and respect them in their new persona; they are going through enough.

ICXC NIKA

A “persona” is a mask that one can take off when he is done. Gender reassignment isn’t a removable mask.

Why do you think you get to make that decision for anyone else?

**It is unrealistic to try and reduce life to DNA. **Sometimes mistakes are made during the development of Human bodies. It seems plausible that a woman could accidentally have been born with a penis and testosterone when she should have been born with a vagina and estrogen. Who are you to say otherwise? Why would you deny that to a woman who sincerely believes it is true?

And yet where would life be without DNA?

 

[GEddie]

A “persona” is a mask that one can take off when he is done. Gender reassignment isn’t a removable mask.

My understanding of persona is that it is the expressed aspect of someone’s life or mind. It is not a priori something that is removable.

I’d say that the personality is that aspect that someone expresses through their mind and body; the persona is that aspect that others see expressed.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Viviphilia]

I agree. I saw no hatred.

Deliberately misgendering a trans person is certainly hateful.

 

[Viviphilia]

No such “huge amount of hatred” would ever be allowed to continue on this forum.

The truth is not hatred.

Well, that thread was closed, so I guess you’re right that such hatred isn’t allowed. Isn’t that comforting to know? :yup:

 

[SwizzleStick]

Deliberately misgendering a trans person is certainly hateful.

So, you are saying that speaking truth is hateful, you are saying that one should just go along with a confused mindset to appear to be loving?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

So, you are saying that speaking truth is hateful, you are saying that one should just go along with a confused mindset to appear to be loving?

Yes, down is up and up is down. There is no right and wrong, unless it’s getting in the way of people who want to do whatever they feel like, in the name of secular humanism.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Yes, down is up and up is down. There is no right and wrong, unless it’s getting in the way of people who want to do whatever they feel like, in the name of secular humanism.

We are certainly living in crazy times. I am not really that old, but of late I have been thinking back to when I was a kid and if I’d known then how the world would change in just a few short years, I would not have believed it.

 

[Faith1960]

Your soul is formed within your body (actually the zygote before it becomes a “body”), and therefore there can never be someone having the wrong body, or the wrong gender, since the gender, like the soul, is given at conception.

What about hermaphrodites?

 

[SwizzleStick]

What about hermaphrodites?

Each person is either a male or female and testing would determine the answer.

 

[Faith1960]

Each person is either a male or female and testing would determine the answer.

Are you sure that in the case of hermaphroditism (is that even a word?), there would be one gender only which would be revealed by testing?

 

[SwizzleStick]

Are you sure that in the case of hermaphroditism (is that even a word?), there would be one gender only which would be revealed by testing?

I don’t think one can have both male and female DNA. I’m not an authority on the subject, but I think genetic testing can determine gender if it cannot be determined visually.

who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

 

[Viviphilia]

So, you are saying that speaking truth is hateful, you are saying that one should just go along with a confused mindset to appear to be loving?

You have no authority to dictate another person’s gender. Deliberately misgendering another person is uncharitable and shows a strong dislike of that person. The truth is that sex and gender are not as clear as you erroneously believe.

 

[Viviphilia]

Are you sure that in the case of hermaphroditism (is that even a word?), there would be one gender only which would be revealed by testing?

The correct term is “intersex” not hermaphrodite. As a matter of fact, gender and sexuality are not always clear. Sometimes, people are born with XXY chromosomes instead of XX or XY. Those individuals often have mixed sexual characteristics (they are not true hermaphrodites).

The following Christian website has a brief explanation of the many sex-gender variance conditions which exist. Some individuals are even born with one set of genitalia and then grow the other genitalia during puberty. This is rare, but well documented fact.

transchristians.org/intersex/intersex-conditions

 

[SwizzleStick]

You have no authority to dictate another person’s gender. Deliberately misgendering another person is uncharitable and shows a strong dislike of that person.

No, of course not. But, either someone is male or female. Telling it like it is is not hateful.

 

[Viviphilia]

either someone is male or female.

Please research the facts of the issue so that you realize you are making an error. For example, in mosaicism a person can be born with some cells containing 46,XX chromosomes and other cells containing 46,XY chromosomes. They can produce a mixture of male and female sexual characteristics. There are several such sex-gender variants which are not easily categorized as male or female.