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Viviphilia
Guest
Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!
Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?
Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.
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Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?
Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.
T
TheDoors
Guest
Intersex is not the same thing as transgender. Most of the TG folk that I know have told me that they function normally, but feel that they are in the wrong body. And no, I felt no need to ask for any kind of proof. As a bit of a sideways point, I’ve read that people being born with both or no sets of reproductive organs has been on a steep rise since the birth control pill came into widespread use. It seems that some of the synthetic hormones used don’t break down in the body nor in water treatment facilities.Yet here you are doubting out-of-hand the experiences of an entire group of people who you know nothing about.
In the case of individuals with intersex who are also transgender, the cause appears to be physical. Stevie Crecelius is an example of such a person.
The existence of both male and female anatomy suggests a hormonal imbalance which created the transgender condition.
I do not agree that belief is equal to truth. My position is that subjective experiences can be valid, despite what your feelings about the experiences of others might be. You appear to be unaware of the facts of transgenderism and you are making uninformed conclusions.
All experiences are valid. All views are not. As to the facts of the transgendered, they seem to vary by the individual. Only two things seem to be common: 1) they are born with a set of reproductive organs and 2) they believe that they have the wrong set.
Now, I’m not a medical professional, I’m not a psychologist, and I’m not even a theologian. I’m not qualified to suggest a proper treatment for a malady that very obviously is effecting the three spheres of human existence. But I do have concerns that modern practices are only concerned with two of them.
E
exnihilo
Guest
Transsexuality can not just be a medical condition because it involves claims about the mind or soul. A self proclaimed transsexual is claiming that their mind or soul does not match up with their body. They are claiming that the minds or souls of the sexes are different and distinct. They are claiming that they know the nature of the mind or soul of both sexes. And they are claiming they know their mind or soul is actually the opposite sex from which their physical sex organs suggest they are a member of. There are a lot of strong claims being made. I am a male. I believe if there is such a thing that I have a male mind or soul. I do not believe that I know what it is like to know what it is like to have a female mind or soul any more than I know what it is like to have a dog mind or soul, if there is such a thing. But I can be very sure that anyone who says they are the historical figure George Washington is wrong. They believe a falsehood.I doubt that you know any such person. However, if you did, what exactly does a delusion about being an historical figure have to do with the well established medical condition of transsexuality?
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
This is untrue and a mischaracterization of the discussion with the CAF member(s) with whom you engaged in that thread. There has not been hatred or injustice expressed.Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!
Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?
Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.
,
W
WillP
Guest
The Church considers that to be a disorder.
Your soul is formed within your body (actually the zygote before it becomes a “body”), and therefore there can never be someone having the wrong body, or the wrong gender, since the gender, like the soul, is given at conception. The sense of having the wrong body or gender is therefore a disorder.
I can’t see how this rationale makes any sense at all. Psychological dispositions and propensities are a function of brain chemistry and other complex neurological featues.
Although, you are correct that transgendered people aren’t in a “wrong” body, they do however, behave as they do, desire what they do, and, are possessed of bizarre inclinations because of neurologic processes---- not because of imaginary departures from processes occuring in the formation of their zygots as you you describe. Whatever their predisposions are, I think it is safe to say that those predispositions have origins in the formation of the zygote rather than to be departures from such formations. There are after all two headed people and other “wrong bodies” which form as part of a natural processes, albeit in departure from norms.
Why then wouldn’t tou see a transgendered person as someone whose psychological makeup was affected by chemical or cerebral departures from norm?
G
GEddie
Guest
GEddie;9235516:
If you admit that it is a departure from the norm, and not as is claimed, “a wrong body,” then we have nothing to disagree about.The Church considers that to be a disorder.
Your soul is formed within your body (actually the zygote before it becomes a “body”), and therefore there can never be someone having the wrong body, or the wrong gender, since the gender, like the soul, is given at conception. The sense of having the wrong body or gender is therefore a disorder.
I can’t see how this rationale makes any sense at all. Psychological dispositions and propensities are a function of brain chemistry and other complex neurological featues.
Although, you are correct that transgendered people aren’t in a “wrong” body, they do however, behave as they do, desire what they do, and, are possessed of bizarre inclinations because of neurologic processes---- not because of imaginary departures from processes occuring in the formation of their zygots as you you describe. Whatever their predisposions are, I think it is safe to say that those predispositions have origins in the formation of the zygote rather than to be departures from such formations. There are after all two headed people and other “wrong bodies” which form as part of a natural processes, albeit in departure from norms.
Why then wouldn’t tou see a transgendered person as someone whose psychological makeup was affected by chemical or cerebral departures from norm?
I don’t know or much care what process leads to those mentations; I do maintain that God does not give “someone the wrong body”. That is impossible. The soul is formed in and for that body.
Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay), are the result of a disorder of development. But unlike the anomalies being considered in the thread, no-one would consider “two-headism” (or the scientific term) a normal variation.
God Bless and ICXC NIKA
V
Viviphilia
Guest
The topic of this thread is how to address a trans woman.This is untrue and a mischaracterization of the discussion with the CAF member(s) with whom you engaged in that thread. There has not been hatred or injustice expressed.
,
When a person refers to a trans woman as a man, it is called misgendering. Normally, it is on accident and benign. The problem is when it is deliberate, as it was on that thread. The deliberate misgendering which was going on in that thread was certainly hateful.
By the way, I’ll check that thread later to see if you ever apologized for the demonstrably false accusations you made against me. I hope to see you there.
W
WillP
Guest
WillP;9404136:
I think we do disagree altho we can certainly do so without being disagreeable. You seem to suggest that a tansgendered person is guilty of a moral failure. I see such a person as having pathological brain chemistry or ,at least, some neurologic deficit.As for “two headed-ism”, it is reported in medical journals and has been documented. Hence, it is hardly, “hearsay” in any sense that you can legitimately mean.If you admit that it is a departure from the norm, and not as is claimed, “a wrong body,” then we have nothing to disagree about.
I don’t know or much care what process leads to those mentations; I do maintain that God does not give “someone the wrong body”. That is impossible. The soul is formed in and for that body.
Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay), are the result of a disorder of development. But unlike the anomalies being considered in the thread, no-one would consider “two-headism” (or the scientific term) a normal variation.
God Bless and ICXC NIKA
J
Jacob18
Guest
If a man changes his body to look like a woman, he is still a man.
If he wants to be a woman and changes his body to look like a woman, out of Christian charity you call him a she.
If he wants to be a woman and changes his body to look like a woman, out of Christian charity you call him a she.
G
GEddie
Guest
GEddie;9404414:
Oops, I apologize.I think we do disagree altho we can certainly do so without being disagreeable. You seem to suggest that a tansgendered person is guilty of a moral failure. I see such a person as having pathological brain chemistry or ,at least, some neurologic deficit.As for “two headed-ism”, it is reported in medical journals and has been documented. Hence, it is hardly, “hearsay” in any sense that you can legitimately mean.
I never meant to suggest that transsexuals were guilty of moral failure, only that whatever has happened in their life does NOT result from having the wrong body. I’ve no doubt that a biological anomaly is present there somehow. But human minds do not come in two versions to be mixed and matched. Each mind is grown for that body.
I believe you about “2 headism”. I’ve never seen the documentation, so to
me it has been hearsay, but will be glad to research it.
ICXC NIKA
J
Julia_Mae
Guest
I think they are looking into mosaicism as possible culprit in some cases.The existence of both male and female anatomy suggests a hormonal imbalance which created the transgender condition.
J
Julia_Mae
Guest
WillP;9404136:
There were a set of sisters sharing a body on 60 minutes a few years ago. I think all their episodes are online, maybe you can find it. I saw it, it’s not hearsay.Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay)
God Bless and ICXC NIKA
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
So, you take the liberty to peddle misinformation about a related thread and when you are taken to task on it you switch to the topic of the OP. Nice!InSearchofGrace;9404063:
Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.Viviphilia;9402590:
Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!
Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?
This is untrue and a mischaracterization of the discussion with the CAF member(s) with whom you engaged in that thread. There has not been hatred or injustice expressed.
,The topic of this thread is how to address a trans woman.
When a person refers to a trans woman as a man, it is called misgendering. Normally, it is on accident and benign. The problem is when it is deliberate, as it was on that thread. The deliberate misgendering which was going on in that thread was certainly hateful.
By the way, I’ll check that thread later to see if you ever apologized for the demonstrably false accusations you made against me. I hope to see you there.
You probably know by now your false ‘false accusation’ story has been addressed sufficiently and as in this one, your method of debate leaves much to be desired.
You’re all over the forum, Viv. But your posts are traceable.
As for the charge of deliberate hateful misgendering in that other thread, you chose to engage someone (not me) who happens to be a doctor (whom you disbelieved as not being one, and regarded as a quack in another instance). Who was being hateful there? Further, you participated in a debate on transgenderism full steam on which you could not possibly have objectivity as you have an open transgender agenda. You alluded as much to knowing that a good number of doctors as well as regular folks are against transitioning and sex reassignment surgery. In fact, the Church also has a clear position against SRS but understands situations when surgery may be involved for strictly therapeutic reasons or corrective purposes, such as reconstruction to free a block that hampers urination, for example. But never to approve of mutilation of healthy organs as in the process of changing one’s sex.
I did not intend to go this far but you did make provocative statements that are not true. I apologize to the followers of thread for this side discussion.
,
V
Viviphilia
Guest
Yes, it appears there are a several types and causes of gender variance. Mosaicism is believed to be an intersex variety which can lead to transsexuality.I think they are looking into mosaicism as possible culprit in some cases.
transchristians.org/intersex/intersex-conditions
E
exnihilo
Guest
What seems strange about this idea is that if gender is something real then it must be a metaphysical reality. I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman’s brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind. That would seem to open up all sorts of problems for them as well since that allows for Natural Law and the revealed religion of Christianity to be true.Yes, it appears there are a several types and causes of gender variance. Mosaicism is believed to be an intersex variety which can lead to transsexuality.
G
GEddie
Guest
And, of course, we know that one’s nervous system is fine-tuned by gender effects, just like the muscle tone, body build, and voice.What seems strange about this idea is that if gender is something real then it must be a metaphysical reality. I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman’s brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind. That would seem to open up all sorts of problems for them as well since that allows for Natural Law and the revealed religion of Christianity to be true.
The senses are part of our CNS, and it is well known that women have stronger noses than men, and can perceive smells than men cannot. Likewise, there are women who can see four primary colors rather than the standard three in human sight ( the genetic change allowing this occurs only in females). Possibly this accounts in part for the stereotypical female sensitivity to smells and colors?
Perceiving is part of what the brain does, so there are brain differences between M and F.
The existence of a “metaphysical mind” does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.
ICXC NIKA
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Women are also more people oriented whereas males are more object oriented. In a group women are more egalitarian whereas men are more competitive. Women are prone to rationalizing things whereas men are prone to doggedly following the rules.And, of course, we know that one’s nervous system is fine-tuned by gender effects, just like the muscle tone, body build, and voice.
The senses are part of our CNS, and it is well known that women have stronger noses than men, and can perceive smells than men cannot. Likewise, there are women who can see four primary colors rather than the standard three in human sight ( the genetic change allowing this occurs only in females). Possibly this accounts in part for the stereotypical female sensitivity to smells and colors?
Perceiving is part of what the brain does, so there are brain differences between M and F.
The existence of a “metaphysical mind” does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.
ICXC NIKA
Both sides have strengths and weaknesses and overall they are equal
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Viviphilia
Guest
There is biological evidence for brain differences between genders.I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman’s brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind.
The goal of feminism is not to turn women into men, but rather to give women the freedom to move about in society without man-made barriers.
I don’t know what you mean by “metaphysical mind.”
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
Disagreeing with someone is not hatred.Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!
Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?
Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.
S
SwizzleStick
Guest
I agree. I saw no hatred.This is untrue and a mischaracterization of the discussion with the CAF member(s) with whom you engaged in that thread. There has not been hatred or injustice expressed.,
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