Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

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Buzzard3 said:
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Freddy:
Naturally. But for any scientifically literate Catholics, or those who are scientifically literate who are thinking of becoming Catholic, these threads, including your contributions, risk turning them away from the church. If someone was of a mind to damage the Catholic church in some way then I couldn’t think of an easier method than signing up to a forum and spending a few minutes each day denigrating science, ridiculing those who understand scientific concepts and using demeaning schoolyard terms such as ‘evos’ and ‘bug-men’.
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You have a keen sense of humour, I must say. So you’re an atheist who is concerned that some folks might be turned off the Catholic Church? I’ve never heard that joke before - so original!

Btw, I’m not a YEC, if that’s what you’re thinking - I accept that life on earth could have begun millions-billions of years ago.
And I don’t denigrate science, although I have been known to denigrate the Darwinian explanation for the history of life on earth, a theory which is contradicted by the fossil record.
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I’ve no real interest in whether the Catholic church increases or decreases it’s membership because of people like you. Spread the word as far and as often as you like. Although what you are spreading is somewhat obscure.

You spend a lot of time denying theories that explain facts about the natural world. But like so many others on these type of threads, we get no alternative.

How about you try one?
 
The Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth from the dead is the ONLY thing that matters. I think too many Christians worry too much about evolution or whatever science. Everything happened according to God’s design. Genesis is and always will be inspired scripture filled with the spiritual truths God wants humanity to know and understand.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
Genesis is and always will be inspired scripture filled with the spiritual truths God wants humanity to know and understand.
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So, which is it… evolution or creation?

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:33
 
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rossum said:
We can program computers to predict the tides. Are you saying tides are not caused by the moon? We can program computers to predict the paths of the planets. Are you saying that the paths of the planets through space are not caused by gravity?
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Tides and gravity follow mathematical laws, so it is easier to program a computer to predict their path. Now set up a computer to predict how a skeletal system could form. You can’t do it unless you first program thousands of goals. Evolution is not goal driven.
 
Buzzard3 said:
Yeah, yeah - - humans allegedly evolved from a hominid and the first life-form was a prokaryote. You’re being pedantic - this isn’t a science forum.
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I’m being pedantic because I’m rather annoyed at the constant mocking of my beliefs. I’m sure you are too.
Buzzard3 said:
… so says someone who thinks an “ensouled” human breeding with a “non-ensouled” human is a reasonable hypothesis!
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You say that like it’s some terrible thought crime. I see no problem with the position whatsoever, obviously, or I wouldn’t take it. Can you tell me why it’s wrong?
Buzzard3 said:
You’ve never noticed that neo-Darwinism does a very good impression of a cult and you think there is no possible link between that cult and demonic influence?
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I haven’t noticed that, because that’s not what’s happening. Evolution is not a cult, it’s a scientific theory based on tons of evidence. Creationism and ID are cults. No outside evidence allowed, everyone who doesn’t believe you has been duped.
Buzzard3 said:
You need to get off your science high-horse and realise that creation is a miracle from start to finish, the process of which can’t be explained by puny humans.
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Absolutely incorrect. Man has the innate ability to understand the world around him in ways far beyond those of other creatures. It is only natural that we seek to know how everything started. Despite your pushback, we find more and more every day to confirm our theories about how things became the way they are.
Buzzard3 said:
And I don’t denigrate science, although I have been known to denigrate the Darwinian explanation for the history of life on earth, a theory which is contradicted by the fossil record.
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“I don’t denigrate science, just the stuff that conflicts with my preconceived notions about how things came to be.”
Buzzard3 said:
Are you saying God is not an intelligent designer?
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Of course He is. What else but intelligence could have designed the laws that govern the interactions of matter and energy?

Cont…
 
Buzzard3 said:
We don’t “know” how a bird (allegedly) evolved from a reptile, for example - a mere theory is not knowledge. We don’t even know that a bird did in fact evolve from a reptile, so your claim to “know” how it happened is laughable.
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Scientific theories are not just “Oh, I think this.” They’re “This explains all the evidence we’ve gathered thus far and enables us to predict what we’ll see with future evidence gathering.” That’s evolution.

Oh, and I want you to tell me all the differences between reptiles and birds that make you think they’re so different.
Buzzard3 said:
Neo-Darwinism can’t explain how a double-circulation heart could have evolved from a single-circulation heart, for example.
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I’ll ignore your continued use of the incorrect term “Darwinism” and just say that yes, it can. It can explain the rising of all sorts of organs. Slight changes to the genetic code can have drastic effects on how the body is structured.
Buzzard3 said:
So sorry to offend your delicate scientific sensiibilties, your Highness!
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I just don’t like having my position mocked, that’s all. If you can only “win” an argument by mocking away your opponent, you win nothing at all.
Techno2000 said:
It was just hyperbole to illustrate the absurdity of Darwinism.
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The real absurdity is your refusal to answer a simple question.
 
I have a question, @Buzzard3. How did the Solar System form?

If you’re wondering why I’m asking, just humor me and I’ll explain later.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
Tides and gravity follow mathematical laws, so it is easier to program a computer to predict their path.
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No they do not. Tides and gravity follow physical laws. We can set up mathematical approximations to those laws to help us predict their future effects. Newton’s laws are a very good approximation for the orbit of the moon, they are a less good approximation for the orbit of Mercury. Einstein developed a better approximation – it got the orbit of Mercury correct – but even that approximation breaks down in some circumstances. Scientists are working on Quantum Gravity as an even better approximation. The mathematical equations are an approximate model of the real physical law.

Computers can be programmed to calculate the approximations because the approximations are mathematical models. Gravity itself is not a mathematical model, it is one of the four known fundamental forces of the universe.
Now set up a computer to predict how a skeletal system could form. You can’t do it unless you first program thousands of goals. Evolution is not goal driven.
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Natural selection can be approximated with the goal: “Have more grandchildren than average.” The problem with a computer simulation of evolution is that you need to predict the future environment reasonably accurately if your simulation is to give a worthwhile result. GIGO is a big problem here. For example, Covid-19 is affecting the evolution of humans by removing vulnerable DNA patterns from the population genome that would not have been removed in its absence. Any past simulation that did not include Covid-19 would have given inaccurate results for today’s population.
 
And now we see:

Now, researchers at the University of Delaware have discovered that bacteria do more than just work together. Bacterial cells from different species can combine into unique hybrid cells by fusing their cell walls and membranes and sharing cellular contents, including proteins and ribonucleic acid (RNA), the molecules which regulate gene expression and control cell metabolism. In other words, the organisms exchange material and lose part of their own identity in the process…

“They mix their machinery to survive or do metabolism, and that’s kind of extraordinary, because we always assumed that each and every organism has its own independent identity and machinery,” said Papoutsakis.

 
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Evolution of eukaryotic species and their genomes has been traditionally understood as a vertical process in which genetic material is transmitted from parents to offspring along a lineage, and in which genetic exchange is restricted within species boundaries. However, mounting evidence from comparative genomics indicates that this paradigm is often violated. Horizontal gene transfer and mating between diverged lineages blur species boundaries and challenge the reconstruction of evolutionary histories of species and their genomes.

I then discuss emerging patterns and effects, illustrated by specific examples, that support the conclusion that nonvertical processes are often at the root of important evolutionary transitions and adaptations. I will argue that a paradigm shift is needed to naturally accommodate nonvertical processes in eukaryotic evolution.

https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nyas.14471
 
buffalo said:
Who set that up and why?
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Impulse to survive and impulse to reproduce are just about the easiest things to explain by the theory of evolution. Creatures which have those impulses are vastly more likely to persist. Creatures which don’t are more or less doomed.
 
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PickyPicky said:
mpulse to survive and impulse to reproduce are just about the easiest things to explain by the theory of evolution. Creatures which have those impulses are vastly more likely to persist. Creatures which don’t are more or less doomed.
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Impulses? Try lighting a fire when the wood is wet.
 
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