Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

[buffalo]

The environment does need to change in order for animals to evolve, in some way. But environment changes are a really common occurrence for populations.

Rather we see niche construction where the organism remodels the environment for its benefit.

 

[Freddy]

Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman:

The environment does need to change in order for animals to evolve, in some way. But environment changes are a really common occurrence for populations.

Rather we see niche construction where the organism remodels the environment for its benefit.

I guess those two kookaburras planted that gum tree in my garden so they’d have somewhere to sit.

 

[rossum]

I guess those two kookaburras planted that gum tree in my garden so they’d have somewhere to sit.

Not quite. The kookaburras’ fleas planted the tree so their hosts would have somewhere to sit.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Could we at least agree that most speciation events and large evolutionary booms came after climate shifts?

How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Then connect them altogether for movement, This apparently first happened in the seas.

 

[rossum]

How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Then connect them altogether for movement,

How? Through evolution. Haven’t you been paying attention?

And bones are not necessary, ask a jellyfish or a squid.

 

[whatistrue]

Lol… too bad none of y’all overly simplified explanations happens in the real world.

So we are back to argument from ridicule with no actual counter arguments. And of course the explanations are simplified; this is not a graduate level course but an attempt to explain the essential basics.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

How? Through evolution. Haven’t you been paying attention?

That’s like asking the tooth fairy.

And bones are not necessary,

If you are right, then why do we have bones?

ask a jellyfish or a squid.

If there is no compelling evidence for bones evolving; just ask a jellyfish; can’t argue with that.

 

[rossum]

That’s like asking the tooth fairy.

So, the tooth fairy created MRSA and Covid-19. Hmmm…

If you are right, then why do we have bones?

Because we inherited them from our ancestors.

If there is no compelling evidence for bones evolving; just ask a jellyfish

A jellyfish shows that muscles can work in the absence of bones. Bones are not required for movement, they are extra. Bones and muscles did not evolve simultaneously; muscles came first with some organisms adding bones later.

 

[Techno2000]

Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman:

Could we at least agree that most speciation events and large evolutionary booms came after climate shifts?

How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Then connect them altogether for movement, This apparently first happened in the seas.

Right, and multiply that by the millions and millions of the different plant and animal species on this planet.

 

[whatistrue]

Right, and multiply that by the millions and millions

So where is your difficulty exactly? Yes, there is a broad diversity of life on Earth. That actually supports evolution.

 

[Techno2000]

So where is your difficulty exactly?

The odds…

 

[whatistrue]

The odds…

With a large enough sample size, even minuscule probabilities can become common. And given the sheer number of individual life forms that have ever existed and the amount of time that has passed, the sample size is extremely large. So probability (aka the odds) also supports evolution.

 

[rossum]

The odds…

Odds can be calculated. Take humans as an example. Each human has 3 billion base pairs in their DNA and an average of 75 mutations. A human generation is 20 years, which gives about three generations in the population at a given time. A population of 7.2 billion humans gives 7.2 / 3 = 2.4 billion people in each generation.

Taking 2.4 billion people, each with 75 mutations given a total of 1.8e11 mutations total per human generation. Spread those mutations evenly in the human genome: 1.8e11 / 3e9 = 60. Every generation every position in the human genome has 60 mutations spread through the population.

So, every generation every possible point mutation happens multiple times. Those odds are effectively a certainty. And a certainty in the next generation and in every generation after that.

If you are going to talk about the odds, then you need to do the calculations first.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Could we at least agree that most speciation events and large evolutionary booms came after climate shifts?

Sorry No. How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Then connect them altogether for movement, This apparently first happened in the seas.

A jellyfish shows that muscles can work in the absence of bones.

We know that. But when you start adding ligaments, tendons and bones to muscles, there is detail. They have to be a certain size, shape, link together in specific places so movement can happen.

How can all this keen attention to detail happen without the guiding hand of God?

 

[whatistrue]

How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles

It was not a single event. It was a process that happened over millions of years and uncounted generations involving many changes, some of which worked and some didn’t. And climate change is not the only type of environmental pressure or change. This is basic fundamental stuff.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

If you are going to talk about the odds, then you need to do the calculations first.

Ok; given these odds, we should be able to evolve a fifth, eye, a third hand, and seven legs. The dna exists to make eyes, legs and hands, we have a population of 7.2 billion, but I can’t see it happening.

 

[whatistrue]

we should be able to evolve a fifth, eye, a third hand, and seven legs

And if they ever become advantageous, our descendants could in fact do that. And whether you can “see” something has no bearing on its existence or likelihood.

 

[Techno2000]

If you are going to talk about the odds, then you need to do the calculations first.

How many “slight modifications” that Darwin spoke about, do you estimate it took, for evolution to go from the first Cell, to the millions of different plant and animal species we have on Earth ?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

How would climate change form the shape of 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Then connect them altogether for movement, This apparently first happened in the seas.

Drop the big numbers, because I can tell that your entire point relies on “Big numbers = complicated.” Bones evolved likely from mutations which hardened the cartilage of certain fish. Muscles have instructions to coat the bone and attach in certain ways. Same with tendons and ligaments. As bodies change shape and evolve, these muscles don’t need to mutate because they aren’t building their part of an absolute body plan, they’re growing with reference to other parts of the body. I don’t see how this “disproves” evolution at all.

Ok; given these odds, we should be able to evolve a fifth, eye, a third hand, and seven legs. The dna exists to make eyes, legs and hands, we have a population of 7.2 billion, but I can’t see it happening.

Those things would probably lead to death, based on the existing human body plan. There’s no place for them to go, either.

 

[buffalo]

So where is your difficulty exactly? Yes, there is a broad diversity of life on Earth. That actually supports evolution.

Supports design, adaptation and hgt.