Translating Protestant to Catholic

[dcastlen50]

Exactly!!!

I battle between two extremes it seems sometimes. The focus of the catholic church is not emotional. There is no discussion really of FEELING love for God, just that you do. Then, I come from an evangelical background where you were COMMANDED to always “feel in love” with God at all times. That mentality really messed me up spiritually. I get scared every time I don’t “feel the spirit” that I’m going to rot in hell. I guess that’s why I found the catholic church. Although they put no emphasis on emotion, I’ve found that it’s kind of a given. You HAVE to love God in mind and emotion. THey just aren’t going to beat you over the head if you aren’t feeling ga-ga constantly.

It’s the same with marriage. GREAT analogy!

Tell me if I am wrong. I admire the comments you and the other party are making regarding feelings. :clapping: Here is my proposition:
We are not commanded to feel; we are commanded to do.
That being established ( and I hope you comment on that propostion), we must then ask is love a feeling; love being the most important commandment. I forgot the verse in Galations.
And having defined love, I think next we should note, as a result of the experience of following the commandments (that is follow the commandments especially love) God gives us feelings - good feelings; albeit, not always. But again we are not commanded to
feel we are commanded to do.
This is a very important issue. Most people in the modern world look at truth and the good as feelings. I say not so. I really am looking forward to your rreply and the person who is communicating with you.

from an old baptist, dominus vobiscum:tiphat:

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Tell me if I am wrong. I admire the comments you and the other party are making regarding feelings. :clapping: Here is my proposition:
We are not commanded to feel; we are commanded to do.
That being established ( and I hope you comment on that propostion), we must then ask is love a feeling; love being the most important commandment. I forgot the verse in Galations.
And having defined love, I think next we should note, as a result of the experience of following the commandments (that is follow the commandments especially love) God gives us feelings - good feelings; albeit, not always. But again we are not commanded to
feel we are commanded to do.
This is a very important issue. Most people in the modern world look at truth and the good as feelings. I say not so. I really am looking forward to your rreply and the person who is communicating with you.

from an old baptist, dominus vobiscum:tiphat:

Our love for God should certainly have an emotion element. Imagine if I told my husband “I love you, but I have never really felt in love with you. But I stay with you because love is an action, not a feeling.” Something like that would destroy him. On the flip side, My love for my hsuabnd should be both emotional and ACTION. There are always times in a marriage where you don’t feel “in love” but this never means you get a divorce.

Love isn’t a one-ot-the-other kind of thing. It’s both. There are times in our spiritual walks where for whatever reason we don’t feel “in love” but this doesn’t mean we walk away or stop following the rules. Quite the opposite. Adhering to the rules especially in those times will help rekindle those flames. I personally see the rules, liturgy, and commandments as fuel to keep the passion for God burning eternally. This is why I became catholic. I lost that “lovin’ feeling” and was utterly condemned. Then I started following catholic practices despite not being catholic, and I started getting it back. My old evangelical church offered no help in getting it back other than telling me that I must have been doing something wrong.

So to sum up, love of God is the same as a marriage. Obedience breeds love, and love breeds obedience. But even if one isn’t feeling in love, they are still to be obedient. Doing so will return the passion.

 

[aspirant]

I’m glad he did that. I’d think that God was the highest authority. LOL

I think the same thing whenever I encounter statements like that. When I see “The Bible is the only Word of God,” for example, I can’t help but think “What about Jesus?”

 

[graceandglory]

When they ask for a date it belies an OSAS mentality, which can be dangerous but fortunately often isn’t.

A good response in such a situation is “I have been saved, I am being saved, I will be saved” which Scott Hahn wrote a good column on.

That IS the best answer.

 

[Tracy_Spenst]

One thing is bothering be a great deal about some of the answers here and that is that Confirmation is being viewed as the person confirming their faith in Christ. That is a PROTESTANT understanding of Confirmation.

Confirmation has nothing to do with the individual’s faith life just as our faith does not cause the Eucharist to be the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. It is a reality regardless of what we believe. For that reason, even a baby can be confirmed (as is done in Eastern Catholic churches).

CCC 1285, “…Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace.”

CCC 1304, Confirmation “is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high that he may be his witness.”

For the original poster, remember that this is the only way these Christians know how to define Christian faith. They are limited by their understanding. However, for those concerned about the group’s extremism of Protestant faith, I would guess they’re not over-extreme because those groups don’t allow dancing!!!

Perhaps the best course is simply to call someone on the committee and say, “What is the reasoning behind this question? We don’t define these things by points in time, but rather by an ongoing growth in Christian virtue and faith. My son has a vibrant faith and a personal relationship with Christ. He desires to follow the will of God in all things. How would you like us to write that on this application?”

It’s possible you may be asked where you find Scriptural basis for this, so be prepared to bring up the verses on baptism being our means of salvation, faithfulness being necessary for eternal life, etc. Always be charitable and don’t over-explain things. It was a conversation similar to this that caused me to first consider that perhaps what I believed wasn’t the only valid position.

God’s blessings,
Tracy

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

One thing is bothering be a great deal about some of the answers here and that is that Confirmation is being viewed as the person confirming their faith in Christ. That is a PROTESTANT understanding of Confirmation.

Right, but keep in mind that this is stemming from trying to explain a faith journey in a way a protestant can understand.

 

[Tracy_Spenst]

Right, but keep in mind that this is stemming from trying to explain a faith journey in a way a protestant can understand.

I realize folks are just trying to find a way to bridge the language barrier, but re-enforcing mistaken ideas isn’t a good tactic. Besides, the young man might have become more dedicated in his faith during his Confirmation preparation, but he probably can’t “date” it and that’s what they’re asking him to do.

I would say that this is group that sees the process as beginning at a specific moment in time after the person made a conscious decision about their own sinfulness and need of salvation. Anything before that is considered “works” and without a date they may just see him as unsaved and trying to get to Heaven by working for it. They need to be charitably challenged to consider that this may not be the true teaching of Scripture and that it is a poor question to ask on a non-denominational application.

Tracy

 

[Corki]

Always is the correct answer. . . I would think.

That’s what I say when I get the “when did you …?” question.

I would say his date of Confirmation, as thats the day he accepted Jesus knowingly, you can argue you the baptism, however they may argue he couldn’t of accepted Jesus then (especially if you had a infant baptism) so go with confirmation.

Unfortunately, while that solves the problem of a specific date, it isn’t really true for Catholics anymore, at least not in the US. The age for Confirmation has been moved in almost all diocese to years older than the age of discretion. Hopefully, all Catholics that are confirmed as teens or pre-teens accepted Jesus knowingly WAY before Confirmation.

Although Baptism is correct, in terms of our souls, the age of discretion is probably the more correct answer cognitively. So if they really want a date, a date that would work would be the date a child started preparing for First Confession. This is when children start to learn personal accountability for sin; the consequences of separation from God and the need for forgiveness and redemption (though most kids can’t express it that way).

I suggest:

Good Friday, 3 O’clock

Then see what they say to that!

CC

And that one is a winner!

 

[fxcc]

Reminds me of the time these two bright things accosted me on my way to work, to ask, “Are you walking with the Lord?”
Before I could even start to frame a response, the words just tumbled out of my mouth: “Not really. It’s usually the other way around - Our Lord’s the one who’s walking by my side!”
I quickly left them, with an “ummm” expression on their faces!

 

[diggit03]

I’m really glad to hear that. This is a grace that waxes and wanes for me. It’s like marriage, you don’t always feel in love although you always love your spouse.

yes indeed, great analogy I’ve thought about it that way sometimes too

Reminds me of the time these two bright things accosted me on my way to work, to ask, “Are you walking with the Lord?”
Before I could even start to frame a response, the words just tumbled out of my mouth: “Not really. It’s usually the other way around - Our Lord’s the one who’s walking by my side!”
I quickly left them, with an “ummm” expression on their faces!

haha nice!

I remember on the airplane this man asked me if “I was saved”…this was one of my first encouters with those people…i said “I think so”, he was like “why” I was like “because I try to be good” and then he got started. I’m far better prepared now. i would say something kind of like “because I try to be good by following all catholic teachings which means I hope to merit God’s mercy and do believe I’m in His grace when I recieve the sacraments” …and to the lady who posted the question- perhaps you should just put N/A?

 

[Tracy_Spenst]

I’m far better prepared now. i would say something kind of like “because I try to be good by following all catholic teachings which means I hope to merit God’s mercy and do believe I’m in His grace when I recieve the sacraments” .

Where I come from that would still get you in a lot of trouble! It still sounds as though you’re earning your way to Heaven. While we might understand what we as Catholics mean by “meriting”, that doesn’t translate well into Protestantese. I would suggest something like this:

“I’ve seen saved through God’s grace in Baptism as explained by St. Peter in I Peter 3;21 and continue to work out my salvation as commanded by St. Paul in Philippians 2:12.”

Not only will this give them a lot more to chew on than they bargained for, but it will make them start digging around in the Scriptures on the verses that aren’t their pet ones!

Just a thought!
Tracy

 

[diggit03]

Where I come from that would still get you in a lot of trouble! It still sounds as though you’re earning your way to Heaven. While we might understand what we as Catholics mean by “meriting”, that doesn’t translate well into Protestantese. I would suggest something like this:

“I’ve seen saved through God’s grace in Baptism as explained by St. Peter in I Peter 3;21 and continue to work out my salvation as commanded by St. Paul in Philippians 2:12.”

Not only will this give them a lot more to chew on than they bargained for, but it will make them start digging around in the Scriptures on the verses that aren’t their pet ones!

Just a thought!
Tracy

that’s great!! thanks so much! will definitely use that line

 

[Syele]

Most of the time they are not really worried about the “day” so much as the decision and it is harder to ask for decisions on a form and most denominations will have a date the decision was made, so it is a common question. They want to be sure he is living a Christian life, not following blindly along cause Mommy said. Any statement about his personal commitment to living a Christian life will most likely suffice.

 

[dcastlen50]

Our love for God should certainly have an emotion element. Imagine if I told my husband “I love you, but I have never really felt in love with you. But I stay with you because love is an action, not a feeling.” Something like that would destroy him. On the flip side, My love for my hsuabnd should be both emotional and ACTION. There are always times in a marriage where you don’t feel “in love” but this never means you get a divorce.

Love isn’t a one-ot-the-other kind of thing. It’s both. There are times in our spiritual walks where for whatever reason we don’t feel “in love” but this doesn’t mean we walk away or stop following the rules. Quite the opposite. Adhering to the rules especially in those times will help rekindle those flames. I personally see the rules, liturgy, and commandments as fuel to keep the passion for God burning eternally. This is why I became catholic. I lost that “lovin’ feeling” and was utterly condemned. Then I started following catholic practices despite not being catholic, and I started getting it back. My old evangelical church offered no help in getting it back other than telling me that I must have been doing something wrong.

Thank you for the reply. You have a good feel,it appears, for love. But tell me exactly what is love? Not examples but, what is love?

So to sum up, love of God is the same as a marriage. Obedience breeds love, and love breeds obedience. But even if one isn’t feeling in love, they are still to be obedient. Doing so will return the passion.

 

[hope_7]

I have been reading through thease posts and I can understand the question that was asked this young man about being saved. Thease people that are asking your son this question are not meaning any harm but are only trying to be sure that your son really knows the Lord and is not just following some religous practice by attending church and not ever really comming to know the Lord.

 Now dont take it personal and get all mad at what I am saying but try to listen to what I have to say. In the protestant church or shall I say in alot of them. It is believed that a person can attend church, and live a good life, can be baptised, can be confirmed, confess his sins to a pastor,be a member of a church, help the poor, can even be very devout, and love God, study the scriptures, and know all about God, even be a preacher or a priest and still go to hell !!!   In the eyes of the protestant this includes catholics and  those in the protestant church.

Isn't that shocking!!!

The question are you saved dosent mean I prayed the sinners prayer or walked down the isle of a church and they prayed with me. It isnt because I had some emotional feeling during the church service, It is defenitely not something that you grow into.

I guess the best way to explain what salvation or being born again is, is to describe what happens when a person recieves Jesus Christ as their savior. I am not talking about the partaking of the body and blood of Jesus in the euchrist as catholics do at mass.

  When a person recieves Jesus as their Lord and savior there are things that happen that only the Lord can do. Before this happens there is usally a time of seeing oneself. A person realizes that they are going to hell because they have sinned. Many times they may have to come to the end of themselves in this process. This is where the Holy Spirit is drawing them. They realise that they have broken God's laws and are helpless to save themselves.

A person begins seeking after God and when they call on Him He hears and saves them. A person may call on God for some time before this happens. This depends on God’s timeing and the persons heart which the Holy Spirit is preparing to recieve Christ Jesus.

What happens when a person is saved. They become a new creature in Christ ,old things are passed away and all things become as new. God places His nature in the person that is saved or born again. His Spirit comes to dwell with them. They will not want to live as they once did. They will have a new love for God and will call Him Father. They will enjoy the things that God has instead of the pleasures of sin. A persons desires change, they find themselves set free from their sins. They experiance a peace that cannot be understood. They realise that all is alright between God and them and He has taken their sins away. It is a change that takes place that only God can do. Most can point to the day that this happened to them. This is not an end but only the beginning. This is where it starts. It dosent mean a person will never sin but sin has no more dominion over him. It also means this is where the true relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ the Son begins.

I could describe the time when God did this for me if it would help you understand what is ment by being saved or born again. I will never forget it and I have never been the same since.
hope

 

[fxcc]

I have been reading through thease posts and I can understand the question that was asked this young man about being saved. Thease people that are asking your son this question are not meaning any harm but are only trying to be sure that your son really knows the Lord and is not just following some religous practice by attending church and not ever really comming to know the Lord.

 Now dont take it personal and get all mad at what I am saying but try to listen to what I have to say. In the protestant church or shall I say in alot of them. It is believed that a person can attend church, and live a good life, can be baptised, can be confirmed, confess his sins to a pastor,be a member of a church, help the poor, can even be very devout, and love God, study the scriptures, and know all about God, even be a preacher or a priest and still go to hell !!!   In the eyes of the protestant this includes catholics and  those in the protestant church.

Isn't that shocking!!!

The question are you saved dosent mean I prayed the sinners prayer or walked down the isle of a church and they prayed with me. It isnt because I had some emotional feeling during the church service, It is defenitely not something that you grow into.

I guess the best way to explain what salvation or being born again is, is to describe what happens when a person recieves Jesus Christ as their savior. I am not talking about the partaking of the body and blood of Jesus in the euchrist as catholics do at mass.

  When a person recieves Jesus as their Lord and savior there are things that happen that only the Lord can do. Before this happens there is usally a time of seeing oneself. A person realizes that they are going to hell because they have sinned. Many times they may have to come to the end of themselves in this process. This is where the Holy Spirit is drawing them. They realise that they have broken God's laws and are helpless to save themselves.

A person begins seeking after God and when they call on Him He hears and saves them. A person may call on God for some time before this happens. This depends on God’s timeing and the persons heart which the Holy Spirit is preparing to recieve Christ Jesus.

What happens when a person is saved. They become a new creature in Christ ,old things are passed away and all things become as new. God places His nature in the person that is saved or born again. His Spirit comes to dwell with them. They will not want to live as they once did. They will have a new love for God and will call Him Father. They will enjoy the things that God has instead of the pleasures of sin. A persons desires change, they find themselves set free from their sins. They experiance a peace that cannot be understood. They realise that all is alright between God and them and He has taken their sins away. It is a change that takes place that only God can do. Most can point to the day that this happened to them. This is not an end but only the beginning. This is where it starts. It dosent mean a person will never sin but sin has no more dominion over him. It also means this is where the true relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ the Son begins.

I could describe the time when God did this for me if it would help you understand what is ment by being saved or born again. I will never forget it and I have never been the same since.

                                                     hope

1. I thought sin lost its **dominion **over mankind at 3 pm on Good Friday at Calvary?
2. Why did Jesus constantly say to people whose sins He forgave, “Go and sin no more”? Could He have been warning them that despite confessing Him as their Lord and Saviour AND being healed/forgiven and being “made new” again (being “born again”, so to speak) by His mercy and power, they could STILL lose their salvation again by sinning? Did Jesus mean that they should “work” out their salvation (for all of their lives?) with “fear and trembling”?
3. If I refuse to accept Jesus’ unambiguous and oft repeated words about the Eucharist being His own Body and Blood given for me (and available only in the Church which He founded) how do I “receive” Him as my Lord and Savior, while rejecting the very means (instituted by Him) of my salvation - His very own salvific Self? Is that not a contradiction?

What you’ve described is an initial conversion of heart. A true Christian undergoes not one, but many conversions (in ever higher degrees), in a lifetime. There is no such thing as “being saved” (by one decision &/or a profession of faith alone) and being guaranteed eternal life thereafter. Wouldn’t that be wonderful? Unfortunately, it’s plain wishful thinking.

We have to ABIDE in Christ until our very last day on this earth (and hastily reconcile ourselves to Him each time we fail to do so).

Here are two scripture texts to consider:

John 15:5 *I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. *

So how are we to “abide in” Christ? He Himself gives us the answer:

John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

Ultimately then, only one thing is guaranteed to save me: worthy and ongoing reception of the Body and Blood of our Crucified and Resurrected Lord, the source and summit of all salvific grace. Otherwise known as The Eucharist. To be found in a Catholic Church near you.

John 6:53 *Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. *

 

[zsmb49]

I suggest:

Good Friday, 3 O’clock

Then see what they say to that!

CC

This is a great answer! I completely agree.

 

[diggit03]

fxcc

 

[geekborj]

My son is auditioning for a non-denominational (but predominately protestant) performing arts troupe.

One of the questions on the application is: When did you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior?

I’m trying to translate that into Catholic. I could make a convincing case for the date of his First Holy Communion, or the date of his Confirmation.

Whaddyathink?

There is a series of track in the Catholic Answers’ Library on Salvation. Within you can click on the second “Assurance of Salvation?” they are great articles tackling similar questions.

I would answer that the date of his Confirmation is the sealing event and definite time when we can be sure that God infused the proper grace to the confirmed person.

Similar question: When did you accept your wife to be your wife? Wedding time? Engagement?

 

[james62]

wow, LOTS of good answers here. as for me, i’m still officially an evangelical protestant, but very catholic in head and heart.

i agree with almost everyone on this thread! the baptism date makes sense, but if we are going for “dates”, i’m pretty sure a “non-denom” (of which i know there is no such thing) group could wrap their heads around the date of confirmation, since that is the date when the child “chooses” the faith for themselves, ala bar mitzvah of old. i also liked the answer, “always”. very good, and it SHOULD be very true for all of us. another good answer that would spark some discussion with the rest of troup might be, “daily”, since even evangelicals believe we are to pick up our cross each day - they just don’t preach it that way very often.

if they are truly non-denominational, i’m assuming they will also allow Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, Buddhists, and atheists into the group as well? : ) In my experience, few of the adherents in a “non-denom” group have thought outside their small very modern evangelical mindset (again, in my experience and in my opinion).