Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

[InnocentFortune]

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

People are reacting because such a shooting just can’t be justified.

I know teenagers that could beat a physically inferior adult senseless. Martin’s twitter account showed he was a pretty tough kid. His twitter tag was NO LIMIT N*****(you can fill in the stars yourself). The picture on his account wasn’t the baby faced 14 year old the media showed. The picture was a young black man with tattoos, a “wife beater” shirt, and a gold “grill” in his teeth. Looks like Martin beat a lot of adults.

theblaze.com/stories/is-this-trayvon-martins-twitter-account/

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Jerry Miah,

It has been repeated stated that none of us have all of the facts to make objective comments on. Add to this the fact that NBC fired a producer for editing the Zimmerman 9-1-1 japantoday.com/category/world/view/nbc-producer-fired-over-editing-of-zimmermans-call call so that Zimmerman appeared raciallyprejudice. The issue is that this tragic matter is being tried in the media to a near hysterical crowd. Inciting to riot comes to mind as a way to characterize what the media and certain opportunists have done - not journalism.

And, please, go easy on this, “We call for charges…” Let the criminal-justice system run its course. All of this emotionalism can only complicate the matter - and, should a trial be necessary, call into serious doubt just where Zimmerman could find an unbiased jury.

Now is the time (actually, it is way past time … but, we can’t go back!) for thoughful words and deeds to prevail. We have a set of laws that are being trampeled because of a tragic event. It will not serve the ends of Justice to have two tragic events develop.

God bless

Zimmerman “refused” to go to the hospital? That’s news. Again, everything you cite is unproven, it is just one unproven side by the lawyer and the family of the killer. But there is a lot of public facts that contradict this. You are the only emotionally repeating an unproven version by the defenders of the killer. You are not a supporter of vigilantism, are you?

A calm look at known, provable facts of the case point to police blunders and misdeeds, a miscarriage of justice. I will remind you that the Chief of Police retired due to his blunders.

We call for charges and, if Zimmerman pleads innocent, a trial. That’s the American way.

Why are you against this going to court?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Pnewton,

You do realize that the police tape that has been so often displayed on TV was not intended as an assessment tool for physical injuries - just there to show the comings and goings of people in the Police Department area.

By responding in this manner - minimizing Zimmerman’s wounds - without a full knowledge of what those wounds are - you are only compounding the prejudice that is snowgalling this case on its way downhill. Yours is simply another inflammatory comment based on partial facts. Note: NBC has already apologized for editing facts to distort Zimmerman’s statements. We really can not believe the media when they are now found guilty of such poor behavior.

Give it a break and just wait for the criminal-justice system to follow the established laws - and these do include the actions of the Special Prosecutor assigned to this case. We will soon know what an impartial group of professionals finds.

God bless

I have wounds on my arm from a cat scratch that are more visible than the ones on the police tape. He did not even need transport to a hospital for treatment first. Of all the evidence one way or another, the lack of serious wounds is not evidence for self defense.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kelvinf,

Let me tell you what doesn’t make sense and can not be justified - and that is all the people jumping to conclusions before the criminal-justice system have done their work and made a real decision in this case. None of us have all of the facts - and that’s a fact.

So, rather than call Zimmerman names (‘vigilante’) that show you have already made up your mind just give it a break and wait for the objective facts to come in.

God bless

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

People are reacting because such a shooting just can’t be justified.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Hi, Jerry Miah,

It has been repeated stated that none of us have all of the facts to make objective comments on. Add to this the fact that NBC fired a producer for editing the Zimmerman 9-1-1 japantoday.com/category/world/view/nbc-producer-fired-over-editing-of-zimmermans-call call so that Zimmerman appeared raciallyprejudice. The issue is that this tragic matter is being tried in the media to a near hysterical crowd. Inciting to riot comes to mind as a way to characterize what the media and certain opportunists have done - not journalism.

And, please, go easy on this, “We call for charges…” Let the criminal-justice system run its course. All of this emotionalism can only complicate the matter - and, should a trial be necessary, call into serious doubt just where Zimmerman could find an unbiased jury.

Now is the time (actually, it is way past time … but, we can’t go back!) for thoughful words and deeds to prevail. We have a set of laws that are being trampeled because of a tragic event. It will not serve the ends of Justice to have two tragic events develop.

God bless

 

[Cider]

I can see this happening, as Zimmerman had no training and apparently no skill at self-defense. I guess he thought a gun was all he needed to chase someone down.

And your basing this assumption on what exactly?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, InnocentFortune,

You bring up an excellent point - the pictures of the two men (Martin and Zimmerman) are not what they looked like on the night of the shooting. There is more than a casual suspicion of media manipulation here. Had the most recent picture of Zimmerman been shown (the smiling and thinner guy no in prison orange) with the most recent of Martin as you described - there would have been a different public response than what we have all witnessed.

Being manipulated is quite different from being informed. There are elements of both in every newspaper article written … but, what is going to have the greater strength?

God bless

I know teenagers that could beat a physically inferior adult senseless. Martin’s twitter account showed he was a pretty tough kid. His twitter tag was NO LIMIT N*****(you can fill in the stars yourself). The picture on his account wasn’t the baby faced 14 year old the media showed. The picture was a young black man with tattoos, a “wife beater” shirt, and a gold “grill” in his teeth. Looks like Martin beat a lot of adults.

theblaze.com/stories/is-this-trayvon-martins-twitter-account/

 

[SwizzleStick]

That is so true, we certainly don’t know all the facts.

"Police Gave George Zimmerman Voice Stress Test

George Zimmerman’s defense team is growing, suggesting that he’s planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin’s death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?"…

Blue excerpt from: reuters.com/article/2012/04/06/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS214913966420120406

 

[kelvinf]

Hi, Kelvinf,

Let me tell you what doesn’t make sense and can not be justified - and that is all the people jumping to conclusions before the criminal-justice system have done their work and made a real decision in this case. None of us have all of the facts - and that’s a fact.

So, rather than call Zimmerman names (‘vigilante’) that show you have already made up your mind just give it a break and wait for the objective facts to come in.

God bless

Hi tqualey,

vigilante ˌvɪdʒɪˈlæntɪ]
n

1. one of an organized group of citizens who take upon themselves the protection of their district, properties, etc.
2. Also called vigilance man US a member of a vigilance committee

thefreedictionary.com/vigilante

 

[kelvinf]

I would really love to see full body pictures of both of them (28 & 17). But the fact is, some of use just can’t imagine an adult watch taking away an unarmed teenager’s life in the name of self-defense. I read somewhere that, it is recommended that, such men shouldn’t be armed but they have the right to do so if they want. I mean, I can’t imagine a society where everyone would need to be carrying and using arms to defend themselves from unarmed individuals.

On other threads, when we debate the possession of arms in the first place, one of the argument is that, if the ‘bad guys’ happen to be armed, then the ‘good guys’ also need arms to be on the same level. People are asking questions in this case because it’s clearly a disproportionate use of force.

We will probably never agree as to whether the deadly use of force exercised by George Zimmerman was appropriate. However, one thing is clear; such an act of ‘self-defense’ has and will always continue to be controversial. Civilians applying excessive use of force will be on the spotlight and should be ready to face the consequences.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kelvinf,

Thanks for the free dictionary’s definition - but, I think you will agree that it totally misses the nuiances that many words have (ah, but, you do get what you pay for… ) Anyway, Zimmerman was a designated member of a Police authorized Neighborhood Watch group. While this may seem to be hair splitting - let’s take a closer look.

The entire concept of a ‘vigilante’ - especially within the context of the thread is that Zimmerman acted by himself, without provocation, outside of the law, was a law unto himself, wrecklessly took the life of an unarmed black teenager and did so because of his self-appointed status as a vigilante.

I repeat, your use of the term is just an imflammatory name-calling activity, It provides neither knowledge or additional insight, but does continue with the public’s uninformed but continued discussion of the ‘known guilt’ of Zimmerman.

And, really, I do believe you that you can not imagine an unarmed teenager being a threat to Zimmerman. But, the fact is, we do not know at what point Martin realized that Zimmerman was armed. And that is really all we can say. Now, if you can’t imagine this such an encounter, that’s OK - but, the outcome of violent confrontations do not begin with everyone showing their weapons and deciding on what the ‘rules of engagement’ will be. And, that is a fact you can imagine.

God bless

Hi tqualey,

vigilante ˌvɪdʒɪˈlæntɪ]
n

1. one of an organized group of citizens who take upon themselves the protection of their district, properties, etc.
2. Also called vigilance man US a member of a vigilance committee

thefreedictionary.com/vigilante

 

[kelvinf]

Hi, Kelvinf,

Thanks for the free dictionary’s definition - but, I think you will agree that it totally misses the nuiances that many words have (ah, but, you do get what you pay for… ) Anyway, Zimmerman was a designated member of a Police authorized Neighborhood Watch group. While this may seem to be hair splitting - let’s take a closer look.

The entire concept of a ‘vigilante’ - especially within the context of the thread is that Zimmerman acted by himself, without provocation, outside of the law, was a law unto himself, wrecklessly took the life of an unarmed black teenager and did so because of his self-appointed status as a vigilante.

I repeat, your use of the term is just an imflammatory name-calling activity, It provides neither knowledge or additional insight, but does continue with the public’s uninformed but continued discussion of the ‘known guilt’ of Zimmerman.

And, really, I do believe you that you can not imagine an unarmed teenager being a threat to Zimmerman. But, the fact is, we do not know at what point Martin realized that Zimmerman was armed. And that is really all we can say. Now, if you can’t imagine this such an encounter, that’s OK - but, the outcome of violent confrontations do not begin with everyone showing their weapons and deciding on what the ‘rules of engagement’ will be. And, that is a fact you can imagine.

God bless

Hello tqualey,

actually my use of the word “vigilante” has got nothing to do with this thread per se. Personally, I simply see certain kinds of civilian law enforcement groups as vigilante groups.

Ok, it is on wikipedia that:

Neighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_watch

Hmmm, so when members intervene, wouldn’t that make them vigilantes?

Anyways, I will stop using the term on this thread because it doesn’t change anything.

 

[SamH]

The entire concept of a ‘vigilante’ - especially within the context of the thread is that Zimmerman acted by himself, without provocation, outside of the law, was a law unto himself, wrecklessly took the life of an unarmed black teenager and did so because of his self-appointed status as a vigilante.

Source?

 

[gilliam]

MIAMI (CBS4) – Florida State Attorney Angela Corey decided Monday to not use a Grand Jury in the Trayvon Martin shooting death.

The grand jury was expected to release their report on Tuesday as to whether Zimmerman should be charged in the Feb. 26th shooting. The case is now in the hands of special prosecutor Angela Corey.

Ms. Corey said from the beginning that she may not need a grand jury.
According to the state attorney’s office, the decision “should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case.”

Former U.S. Attorney Kendall Coffey told CBS4′s Gio Benitez that by not using a grand jury, prosecutors will probably not charge Zimmerman with a capital offense.
Additionally, lawyer Janet Johnson, who works in Corey’s jurisdiction, said grand jury are used on “all First Degree Murder cases.”

miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/09/grand-jury-will-not-hear-trayvon-martin-case/

 

[SwizzleStick]

This is worrisome, especially considering today’s news.

"New Black Panthers: Race War For Trayvon April 9th ‘Day of Action’

On the organizing phone call for their Trayvon Martin April 9th National Day of action protest The New Black Panther Party engaged in violent, racist, hate filled speech. "

Source link and video: breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action

 

[kelvinf]

The entire concept of a ‘vigilante’ - especially within the context of the thread is that Zimmerman acted by himself, without provocation, outside of the law, was a law unto himself, wrecklessly took the life of an unarmed black teenager and did so because of his self-appointed status as a vigilante.

Source?

I think he was trying to tell me that, my use of the term seems to imply the above.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I would really love to see full body pictures of both of them (28 & 17). But the fact is, some of use just can’t imagine an adult watch taking away an unarmed teenager’s life in the name of self-defense. I read somewhere that, it is recommended that, such men shouldn’t be armed but they have the right to do so if they want. I mean, I can’t imagine a society where everyone would need to be carrying and using arms to defend themselves from unarmed individuals.

On other threads, when we debate the possession of arms in the first place, one of the argument is that, if the ‘bad guys’ happen to be armed, then the ‘good guys’ also need arms to be on the same level. People are asking questions in this case because it’s clearly a disproportionate use of force.

We will probably never agree as to whether the deadly use of force exercised by George Zimmerman was appropriate. However, one thing is clear; such an act of ‘self-defense’ has and will always continue to be controversial. Civilians applying excessive use of force will be on the spotlight and should be ready to face the consequences.

let me share an experience i had. in the early morning hours - around 2am - about 5 years ago, i woke up to hear the police helicopter circling above my house. it didn’t leave.
i decided to go out to my back porch (unarmed) to see what was going on. the light was shining across the canal and i figured a home had an attempted breakin or something like that. i heard the voices of the policemen on the canal bank. my porch light was off as i did not want to draw attention and i was still in my night clothes. as i slowly made my way across my screened in back porch, i became aware of somehing on the ground in front of me. i thought it was a pile of clothes or a blanket. all of a sudden, a black young man about my height jumped up right in front of me. another step, i would have stepped on him. i realized he was hiding from the police on my back porch. luckily, he wasn’t armed either. i probably wouldn’t be here today. if i would have been armed with a gun or knife, i would certainly have done whatever i could have to preserve my life. it was a frightening night and i was lucky to be able to run fast and escape, but i kept thinking i saw this person (who had been armed before he and his friend dropped their weapons while being pursued by the police for a drive by shooting) everywhere. all it takes is one bad experience, to make you suspicious of anyone who looks like the person who tried to harm you.

 

[mary_bobo]

No, he was not. Being in a gated community does not equate to trespassing. A gated community is not a closed commune where no one is allowed visitors. Furthermore, if he went out in public, to buy some snacks, no where he walked would be considered criminal trespassing unless it was properly posted as private property (including the streets and sidewalks), and usually fenced off. No one has said anything about this, or about him jumping some gate or fence.

If it is a gated community, visitors usually have to call into the house where they are to visit to get admittance. Or there would be a guard house at the main gate. Seems to indicate to me that one should not just wander thru if that is the case. But here again, we are all stating opinions because we do not have facts. And it would be more prudential if we did not state our opinions as facts.

 

[ringil]

This is worrisome, especially considering today’s news.

"New Black Panthers: Race War For Trayvon April 9th ‘Day of Action’

On the organizing phone call for their Trayvon Martin April 9th National Day of action protest The New Black Panther Party engaged in violent, racist, hate filled speech. "

Source link and video: breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action

It’s not worrisome unless one wants to feel it is worrisome. THis source is certainly known for seeking out the sensational and profiting of the fear of difference.

This is race baiting by those who acuse others of race-baiting.

I believe that many seem to be HOPING for a violent response as it would fit their concept of the minority community.

 

[scipio337]

It’s not worrisome unless one wants to feel it is worrisome. THis source is certainly known for seeking out the sensational and profiting of the fear of difference.

This is race baiting by those who acuse others of race-baiting.

I believe that many seem to be HOPING for a violent response as it would fit their concept of the minority community.

Source of this amazing insight into others’ hopes?