Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

[vz71]

…a crime may have been committed.

It is improper to utilize that as the only reason to bring someone to trial.

The first investigation determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge anyone with a crime.
On what basis is it determined that the investigation was improper?

 

[iamrefreshed]

What we need is a clear law criminalizing any and all actions taken against people, based solely on physical features which are common to whole groups of people. One would have thought the protections enshrined in the Constitution would be enough, but obviously, it needs to be broken down into bite-size chunks…

This is interesting. Tell me how will it be enforced?

 

[vz71]

I was once in a restaurant near a guy about who I had a strong feeling that he was probably in the mob (for various reasons I won’t explain here). I didn’t get a gun and shoot him.

If this man started beating you, and you believed your life in danger, I would not fault you for shooting him.

 

[seekerz]

I wouldn’t.
I would want to be as far away from media as possible.

It is too bad he would not be eligible for the witness protection program.
The race peddlers have made him a hated man, I believe his life is now in danger.

As a parent, I believe in teaching kids to take responsibility for their actions. No, Zimmerman isn’t responsible for every bone-headed response to his actions, but I’m amazed how he is being portrayed as not responsible for any part of his predicament. He can blame the haters all he wants, his decisions that night started the whole ball rolling and the police/DA’s failures just added the kick.

 

[iamrefreshed]

As a parent, I believe in teaching kids to take responsibility for their actions. No, Zimmerman isn’t responsible for every bone-headed response to his actions, but I’m amazed how he is being portrayed as not responsible for any part of his predicament. He can blame the haters all he wants, his decisions that night started the whole ball rolling and the police/DA’s failures just added the kick.

What police/DA failures?

Their failure to come to your conclusions?

You once stated you could not be on a jury for this case. At least you have the honesty to admit your bias. But with that comes the fact that anything you utter on the subject is automatically suspect.

 

[pnewton]

If I walk down the street dressed like an army general people will think I am inn the army.
If I walk down the street dressed like a buisiness man people will think I am in business.
If I walk down the street dressed like a clown people will think I am a clown.

And if I walk down the street dressed like gangsta hoodlum people will think I am a gangsta hoodlum, and if one of those people is carrying a gun, and if I attack the person carrying a gun and I get shot, werll guess what : ITS MY FAULT

If someone is dressed like a business man, he could also be going to a funeral. If someone wears a hoodie, it may be the only clean jacket he has. When people respond with prejudice, they often make wrong assumptions.

 

[hosemonkey]

So you shouldn’t wear hoodies because somebody might be a paranoid vigilante and shoot you dead? Maybe people shouldn’t be paranoid vigilantes and shoot people dead because they are in hoodies?

I was once in a restaurant near a guy about who I had a strong feeling that he was probably in the mob (for various reasons I won’t explain here). I didn’t get a gun and shoot him.

You know exactly what I am saying, you are arguing for the sake of argument. That or you are very naive or that you live in an ideal world of your own construction.

 

[Dawnia]

So you shouldn’t wear hoodies because somebody might be a paranoid vigilante and shoot you dead? Maybe people shouldn’t be paranoid vigilantes and shoot people dead because they are in hoodies?

I was once in a restaurant near a guy about who I had a strong feeling that he was probably in the mob (for various reasons I won’t explain here). I didn’t get a gun and shoot him.

That’s probably a good thing, because if he was, the police would have been the least of your worries. You wouldn’t have gotten the luxury of due process. You would just disappear.

 

[rlg94086]

This is true and unfortunate, but at the same time, Zimmerman is still alive, which means that there are things possible for him that are impossible for Martin. Also, Zimmerman made the choices that created the situation; Martin didn’t have that luxury.

Yes, Martin is not alive, and I pray for his soul and his family. That said, Martin may also have made choices that brought about his death. None of us know. Saying Zimmerman created the situation is too simplistic.

All we do know for certain is that Zimmerman saw something in Martin’s actions that looked suspicious (justified or not…that part is irrelevant) and called 911. There is nothing wrong with reporting suspicious activity in your neighborhood. The exact details after that are what are in question, and we don’t know enough based on the information available.

Hopefully, the investigations will clear some of it up and bring some closure to the situation. I hope that people on both sides will accept the results of our justice system, whether enough evidence brings a trial or not. If he is not found guilty, Zimmerman will probably have to move and change his name. This would be unjust, but, as you said, it is an option Martin doesn’t have.

 

[Dawnia]

If someone is dressed like a business man, he could also be going to a funeral. If someone wears a hoodie, it may be the only clean jacket he has. When people respond with prejudice, they often make wrong assumptions.

So my aunt who walked around town swinging a baseball bat at anyone who got near her wasn’t really crazy…she was just misunderstood?

 

[rlg94086]

The hoodie comments are irrelevant to the case. The reasons Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious have nothing to do with what transpired.

 

[pnewton]

Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have repeatedly said, “charge him” and “try him”.

This is a re-occuring strawman, both here and in the media. For all the complaints about the bias of the media, I have seen quite a bit that is slanted both ways. It may well be that in Florida, this man is protected from being charged because of a poorly written law. If that is the case, then that decision needs to be made. Right now, of course there is a clamor for charges. No one is hearing this case in the legal system. The local proseuctors are still kibitzing on what to do. This does not mean that anyone wants this man lynched or tried in the media.

As lenient as Texas is on self-defense, this man would have already been charged and forced to defend his actions in a court of law. I will never understand what is happening in Florida.

 

[pnewton]

So my aunt who walked around town swinging a baseball bat at anyone who got near her wasn’t really crazy…she was just misunderstood?

A baseball bat is not an article of clothing. Swinging a bat at another person is a more threatening action than walking while carrying candy.

 

[vz71]

A baseball bat is not an article of clothing. Swinging a bat at another person is a more threatening action than walking while carrying candy.

Assuming that is all that was going on.
There seems to be evidence to say otherwise though.

 

[seekerz]

This is interesting. Tell me how will it be enforced?

Simple: why did you arrest, detain or initiate a confrontation with this person? If you can’t give a specific reason based on a unique attribute or combination of attributes e.g. a tall, elderly black man in a green and white t-shirt, a shirtless, young blonde man with the tattoo of a ship on his upper arm…etc, then you have profiled. No more stopping of random young men only because a man of their skin color committed a crime in the vicinity.

It could be enforced by the men who have been detained or stopped, filing charges when they are so targeted.

 

[pnewton]

Assuming that is all that was going on.
There seems to be evidence to say otherwise though.

Initially, when Martin was targeted for being followed, there is no evidence that he was doing anything else. That is the part of this event that was being discussed, not what happened subsequent.

 

[hosemonkey]

If someone is dressed like a business man, he could also be going to a funeral. If someone wears a hoodie, it may be the only clean jacket he has. When people respond with prejudice, they often make wrong assumptions.

Thank you for making my exact point. People DO make incorrect assumptions and based on that fact, why reenforce those incorrect assumptions by conforming to a stereotype? If everyone is dressed like the hoodlum stereotype, how do you sort out the bad guys from the good guys? If I wear a Hell’s Angels patch on my jacket, does that make me a Hell’s Angel? Possibly. I may just be terminally stupid, because I am either a genuine Hell’s Angel or I simply love the attention that it gets me from Law Enforcement or I risk the wrath of real Hell’s Angels for the unauthorized wearing of their sacred patch. I have got to be willing to take the risks involved in presenting a certain appearance. I don’t care if that is right or wrong, that is simply the way it is.

 

[CatholicGOPer]

That’s it I’m reporting your rude arse I don’t care what party you are with…

You would have made a great Hitler Youth:
Tattling on people you do not like

Personally, I don’t rat on people no matter how much I dislike their posts.
Go get a life

 

[CatholicGOPer]

Zimmerman doesn’t have to pay for his own lawyer. He could take a public defender. He could also ask the police for protective custody…

So he has to ask for protective custody because people like you, and Spike Lee, and Al Sharpton, and all the other racist race baitors are threatening his life. Is that how it goes nowadays in America?

You disgust me

 

[Dawnia]

A baseball bat is not an article of clothing. Swinging a bat at another person is a more threatening action than walking while carrying candy.

But that doesn’t negate the fact that people formed opinions that she was crazy based on her actions regardless if she was crazy or not. How you project yourself, effects how others see you.