Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

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OrdinaryMelkite said:
Most people in the media are saying she is confident she can get a conviction on 2nd degree murder. **That she truly does not believe GZ’s story. **

Like she just said, she came to this after careful consideration.
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That’s interesting. To actually convict him beyond a reasonable doubt, it will take more than her personal belief though. Evidence, timelines, witnesses,etcetera, will be the best she can do. From what I’ve read of the incident, there is plenty of reasonable doubt. That doesn’t mean he’s innocent, but it may make it difficult for the prosecutor to get a conviction.
 
She must really think she has the evidence on this. Manslaughter would have been a much safer route.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Absolutely.

OTOH, I’m going to “go there”-----------

Would you have said the same thing had TM shot and killed GZ the neighborhood patrol guy?

And HE was on trial for his life?

I’m speaking more in the sense of “authority figure” vs. “young guy who happens to be a minority,” to be clear.
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Many years ago, I was part of a sequestered jury for a capital case. The young woman was charged with the murder of two children. She had been tried in the local media. I lived there, but worked in another state so I had very little knowledge of the case. The media found the young woman guilty. The jury found her not guilty.

For a long time after the trial, the jury was tried in the media. We were stupid, we didn’t listen to the evidence, we were soft, we were anything but an impaneled jury. Before that trial, I was part of the “lynch mob.” If you were arrested or accused, chances are, you were guilty. Now, I give EVERYONE the presumption of innocence.

So, yes, if Martin had shot Zimmerman, I would presume him innocent until after the trial. After being on the aforementioned case, I can’t do anything else.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Most people in the media are saying she is confident she can get a conviction on 2nd degree murder. That she truly does not believe GZ’s story.
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What prosecuter is not confident at an opening press conference on a case??? :confused:
Like she just said, she came to this after careful consideration.
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Again, that sounds familiar.

Remember in this country we have the presumption of innocence. We will have to see what the government’s case looks like.
 
maryjk said:
Many years ago, I was part of a sequestered jury for a capital case. The young woman was charged with the murder of two children. She had been tried in the local media. I lived there, but worked in another state so I had very little knowledge of the case. The media found the young woman guilty. The jury found her not guilty.

For a long time after the trial, the jury was tried in the media. We were stupid, we didn’t listen to the evidence, we were soft, we were anything but an impaneled jury. Before that trial, I was part of the “lynch mob.” If you were arrested or accused, chances are, you were guilt. Now, I give EVERYONE the presumption of innocence.

So, yes, if Martin had shot Zimmerman, I would presume him innocent until after the trial. After being on the aforementioned case, I do anything else.
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I was the jury foreman for a three strikes case in California. It only had the victim and the perpetrator as witnesses to the crimes (kidnapping, terrorist threats, and assault with a deadly weapon - his teeth). We found him guilty on all three counts, but it was difficult deliberation. Coming to a decision “beyond a reasonable doubt,” isn’t as easy as it sounds. One of the things we argued about is whether teeth are a deadly weapon.

We didn’t have the media circus you did, but the experience still informs my presumption of innocence and weariness of trial by media.
 
The tens of thousands of aborted babies in the USA alone… does not raise any brow.

Euthanasia in our hospitals…no one bats an eyelash…

Murderous crime rates in our cities…old news.

Largest illegal drug consumers of the free world…big deal.

Organized crime and corrupt politicians in bed together…so what.

Martin & Zimmerman…now that’s news! (?) That’s a tragedy; we are all over that.

Boy, are we ever bored.

Why don’t we all just go to the coliseum and throw a few christians to the lions.

What a topsy turvey ADD morality we have.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
The tens of thousands of aborted babies in the USA alone… does not raise any brow.

Euthanasia in our hospitals…no one bats an eyelash…

Murderous crime rates in our cities…old news.

Largest illegal drug consumers of the free world…big deal.

Organized crime and corrupt politicians in bed together…so what.

Martin & Zimmerman…now that’s news! (?) That’s a tragedy; we are all over that.

Boy, are we ever bored.

Why don’t we all just go to the coliseum and throw a few christians to the lions.

What a topsy turvey ADD morality we have.
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Hope you can accept that this is a thread re ONE topic.
Each concern you’ve mentioned has been (and is) addressed in many other threads.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
The tens of thousands of aborted babies in the USA alone… does not raise any brow.

Euthanasia in our hospitals…no one bats an eyelash…

Murderous crime rates in our cities…old news.

Largest illegal drug consumers of the free world…big deal.

Organized crime and corrupt politicians in bed together…so what.

Martin & Zimmerman…now that’s news! (?) That’s a tragedy; we are all over that.

Boy, are we ever bored.

Why don’t we all just go to the coliseum and throw a few christians to the lions.

What a topsy turvey ADD morality we have.
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All of those are grave issues, of course…

But are you saying the possibly unprovoked shooting of an unarmed teenager by a neighborhood watch guy with a gun is NOT worth the media coverage? Particularly since the police may have swept this under the carpet without the subsequent pressure??? 🤷
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
All of those are grave issues, of course…

But are you saying the possibly unprovoked shooting of an unarmed teenager by a neighborhood watch guy with a gun is NOT worth the media coverage? Particularly since the police may have swept this under the carpet without the subsequent pressure??? 🤷
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👍
 
catharina said:
Hope you can accept that this is a thread re ONE topic.
Each concern you’ve mentioned has been (and is) addressed in many other threads.
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Well, in fairness to the poster, this is what? The third thread after the others maxed out with posts? You leave one of these threads for an hour and com back to 100 new posts. The case rose to the level of a UN representative calling for an inquiry.

This case is certainly garnering an extraordinary amount of interest in comparison to the others the poster listed.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
All of those are grave issues, of course…

But are you saying the possibly unprovoked shooting of an unarmed teenager by a neighborhood watch guy with a gun is NOT worth the media coverage? Particularly since the police may have swept this under the carpet without the subsequent pressure??? 🤷
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The other grave issues are a little more certain. People love to chime in with assumptions and presumptions on these sort of cases, especially if they can cause angry division based on their presumptions,
 
gilliam said:
What prosecuter is not confident at an opening press conference on a case??? :confused:

Again, that sounds familiar.

Remember in this country we have the presumption of innocence. We will have to see what the government’s case looks like.
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Indeed.
 
Second-degree murder is typically brought in cases when there is a fight or other confrontation that results in death and but does involve a premeditated plan to kill.
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-11-18-27-48

So the case will probably hinge on whether it was self defense or fighting over the gun or Zimmerman shot Trayvon in anger.

I note a hate crime was not alleged at this time.

From what little I know of the case, and the witness(s) have said, the prosecution is going to be hard press to overcome a self defense / fighting over the gun defense.
 
rlg94086 said:
Well, in fairness to the poster, this is what? The third thread after the others maxed out with posts? Yo leave one of these threads for an hour and com back to 100 new posts. The case rose to the level of a UN representative calling for an inquiry.

This case is certainly garnering an extraordinary amount of interest in comparison to the others the poster listed.
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My own impression?

It’s shocking to many adults that anyone can shoot a young stranger
who is armed with skittles and an iced tea - and then just walk
away from it without charges.

It’s shocking to me after working with young people for 40+ yrs
and especially shocking to hear folks (Catholic posters) demean
the dead individual for his choice of clothing.

Who is safe when such thinking runs riot?

The extraordinary interest?
Due perhaps to the extraordinary facts?
Due also perhaps to the extraordinary venom expressed in some posts?

Vulgar attire? yep - annoying.
Hoodies? Cheap, practical, washable, comfortable, yep

Hoodies as a sign of DANGER???
Never heard of it until these threads.
 
rlg94086 said:
The other grave issues are a little more certain. People love to chime in with assumptions and presumptions on these sort of cases, especially if they can cause angry division based on their presumptions,
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Well, it’s up to a jury now. Apparently the state of Florida thought there is definitely “something there” to warrant a trial. So “take it up with them” if you don’t think there is a possibility of “unprovoked and unwarranted” and “sweeping under the carpet.”😛

And yes, we are speculating here. Like you are. We are not in the jury, so we can do that.
 
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