Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

[SwizzleStick]

…A member of Zimmerman’s family wrote in that George Zimmerman helped publicize this issue in the black community. Here is a link to the only full text of the lettter I could find.

I remember a reference to that incident in one of the other Martin/Zimmerman threads (or maybe it was this one, I don’t recall). I’ll do a search and see if I can locate it.

 

[catharina]

The book is great too.

The reference made (inconceivable) was funny and a nod to both book and movie, that’s all. I guess it really doesn’t fit in this thread.

Yet the reference means absolutely nothing to me -
and I can’t see that it means anything to this thread either.

I see it as a random attempt at diversion.
In that, it seems he might have had some success.

 

[St_Francis]

You make an interesting point that is not often discussed. Yes, I think if Martin had not black, we might never have heard about this case. However, you are wrong that “The injustice being claimed is that Zimmerman was ‘let off’ because he was ‘white’ and Martin black.” This would have been an injustice no matter what the races involved. But, ironically, Zimmerman might have stayed under the national news radar if race had not been involved. We don’t know why he was “let off” by the Sanford Police.

I guess I wasn’t clear: the injustice which has roused Jesse Jackson et al is that Zimmerman was let off because he was “white.” Had both been the same race, or reversed, this whole media affair would not have happened.

Which makes us ask, how often do these injustices happen and we never hear about them because they don’t become national issues? How often do police “let off” people for corrupt reasons, how often do District Attorneys not charge killers for dubious reasons?

Who knows? As it turns out, a year before in Sanford, a police officer’s son was at first “let off” (then later given what seems to me to be a very low sentence) when he beat a black homeless man. It all came out because someone videoed it.

OTOH, for African Americans who have experience with prejudicial treatment by police, who know what it is like to be pulled over for “DWB” (driving while black), to be hassled or searched for no apparent reason other than race, this case was extra alarming since it combined the possible race issue with possible issues of vigilantism, reckless manslaughter, murder, police corruption/favoritism, etc.

You know, I could possibly take that more seriously if I hadn’t lived in DC when it was the Murder Capital of the world. The trend continues: young black men are in much more danger of being killed by other young black men than they are of being killed by whites, even white police officers. And yet I do not see Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP holding press conferences and rallies about that issue.

 

[Calgar]

I quoted the case law a few days ago. Do you have any support for this opinion?

Personally, I don’t see ho 776.012 can apply here in light of the fact that Martin was unarmed and Zimmerman was not hospitalized. If it does, then like I said earlier, it is a good reason for me to avoid Florida.

Fearing for your life does not require your opponent to be armed.

I’m pretty sure there are documented cases of humans killing other humans with their bare hands.

It’s going to be VERY hard for the prosecutor to prove that Zimmerman was NOT afraid for his life or serious bodily injury (people seem to forget that part).

That is unless the prosecutor has a mind reader.

 

[Calgar]

You know, I could possibly take that more seriously if I hadn’t lived in DC when it was the Murder Capital of the world. The trend continues: young black men are in much more danger of being killed by other young black men than they are of being killed by whites, even white police officers. And yet I do not see Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP holding press conferences and rallies about that issue.

Because it doesn’t make them any MONEY.

 

[St_Francis]

Because it doesn’t make them any MONEY.

I don’t see how this is going to make them any money, either.

 

[rlg94086]

Fearing for your life does not require your opponent to be armed.

I’m pretty sure there are documented cases of humans killing other humans with their bare hands.

It’s going to be VERY hard for the prosecutor to prove that Zimmerman was NOT afraid for his life or serious bodily injury (people seem to forget that part).

That is unless the prosecutor has a mind reader.

They may try the weight/age differential argument, as some on CAF did. I’m not sure it will be effective. I know that my tall, lightweight teenager (he’s 21 now, so it’s not long ago) could have taken his older, heavier father. He was a defenseman in hockey, so I’ve seen him fight. Luckily, he loves me.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…A member of Zimmerman’s family wrote in that George Zimmerman helped publicize this issue in the black community. Here is a link to the only full text of the lettter I could find.
SwizzleStick;9172334:

I remember a reference to that incident in one of the other Martin/Zimmerman threads (or maybe it was this one, I don’t recall). I’ll do a search and see if I can locate it.

I found it. It follows. Link to actual post: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9145131&postcount=927

In 2010 race-related beating case, George Zimmerman pushed to discipline same officers who investigated Trayvon Martin shooting

After Justin Collison surrendered himself to authorities, the Sanford Police Department struggled to hold its officials accountable. A lengthy investigation conducted by the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office concluded that the police officials involved did not offer Justin Collison “preferential treatment.”

Still, according to members of the Zimmerman family, George printed and distributed copies of fliers on bright fluorescent-colored paper demanding that the community “hold accountable” officers responsible for any misconduct. TheDC has obtained a copy of one of those fliers.

“Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would?” the Zimmerman family member asked in the letter to the NAACP’s Clayton.

“Do you know who spent tireless hours putting fliers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church‐goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8th, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??”

“That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN,” the letter insisted. “Ironic isn’t it?”

Every Sunday, according to his family, Zimmerman would stroll through Sanford’s black neighborhoods handing out the fliers demanding justice for Sherman Ware, and calling for the police to hold their own officials accountable. Zimmerman would also place the fliers on people’s cars outside churches.

“I challenge you to stand together and to have our voices heard, and to hold accountable all of those officers, and officials whom let this atrocious attack pass unpunished until the media revealed it,” one of the fliers reads in part. “This animal could have attacked anyone of us, our children or loved ones in his alcohol fueled rage.”

The officers whom Zimmerman targeted for accountability in the Sherman Ware incident were all cleared by the Seminole County Sheriff’s investigation, despite Zimmerman’s repeated accusations that police gave kid-glove treatment to a white officer’s son who beat a defenseless, homeless black man.

But 14 months later, at least two of the same officers investigated the shooting death of Trayvon Martin — and cleared Zimmerman — even though his voice was the loudest calling for their punishment in the Ware case.

One of those officers was Timothy Smith. According to a police incident report from the scene of the Feb. 26 shooting, Officer Smith handcuffed Zimmerman and transported him to the police station. Another was Sergeant Anthony Raimondo, who was on scene with Smith and other local officers.

dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/

 

[St_Francis]

I quoted the case law a few days ago. Do you have any support for this opinion?

According to a lawyer I linked to a couple or few pages ago, a person who is charged in FL who says they were acting in self-defense then gets an evidentiary hearing in which the person must show by a preponderance of the evidence (not “beyond a reasonable doubt”) that it was self-defense. If the defendant is ruled to have shown that, the charges are dismissed. Otherwise it goes to trial.

Personally, I don’t see ho 776.012 can apply here in light of the fact that Martin was unarmed and Zimmerman was not hospitalized.

It seems that Martin was banging Zimmerman’s head against the sidewalk. This is a very dangerous thing to do and can cause major harm and possibly death. I don’t think someone has to wait until they are in need of hospitalization to shoot in self-defense, even when the person banging his head against the sidewalk doesn’t have a weapon.

If it does, then like I said earlier, it is a good reason for me to avoid Florida.

I think if you refrain from banging people’s heads against hard surfaces and similar activities, you will probably be all right. And several other states have laws similar to Florida’s…

 

[Calgar]

I don’t see how this is going to make them any money, either.

It’s publicity. It keeps the donations rolling in.

 

[Calgar]

They may try the weight/age differential argument, as some on CAF did. I’m not sure it will be effective. I know that my tall, lightweight teenager (he’s 21 now, so it’s not long ago) could have taken his older, heavier father. He was a defenseman in hockey, so I’ve seen him fight. Luckily, he loves me.

They’ve got no way to know if he was actually afraid for his well being or not. Not much of a case really.

 

[seekerz]

Knowing all of the irrelevent things that have come up concerning Trayvon, if any of my children turn out like that I would not have allowed him to do anything unsupervised.

He would likely find himself enrolled and shipped off to the most hard core military or religious boarding school I could find with orders that he not see the light of day until whatever senselessness he has within him ceases to be.

If any of your children turn out like what? Did you know even know Trayvon?

As a child I wasn’t perfect, but I was taught not to speak ill of the dead - obviously, they’re not there to defend themselves. People didn’t ship kids off anywhere either; all the nurturing and training we needed was right there within the home and community. Sad that not everybody has that today…

 

[seekerz]

They’ve got no way to know if he was actually afraid for his well being or not. Not much of a case really.

I would imagine this would not be the first murder in Florida with no eyewitnesses. Surely they all aren’t getting off by pleading self defense, so the justice system must still retain some capability to protect innocent people.

 

[catharina]

If any of your children turn out like what? Did you know even know Trayvon?

As a child I wasn’t perfect, but I was taught not to speak ill of the dead - obviously, they’re not there to defend themselves. People didn’t ship kids off anywhere either; all the nurturing and training we needed was right there within the home and community. Sad that not everybody has that today…

Wonderful post.
Thank you so much.

 

[Lujack]

What I know is that I care much more about him being charged, then I do about him being convicted. What always rankled about this case wasn’t that Zimmerman might not see a jail cell (that’s what judges and juries determine) but that law enforcement had done everything to foreclose that possibility. We may find that they still have. I imagine a lot was lost in bungling. But at the very least this says, “We take the loss of life seriously.”

That’s Ta-Nehisi Coates’s brief piece on this; I tend to agree with him, especially the first and last sentence.

 

[seekerz]

According to a lawyer I linked to a couple or few pages ago, a person who is charged in FL who says they were acting in self-defense then gets an evidentiary hearing in which the person must show by a preponderance of the evidence (not “beyond a reasonable doubt”) that it was self-defense. If the defendant is ruled to have shown that, the charges are dismissed. Otherwise it goes to trial.

It seems that Martin was banging Zimmerman’s head against the sidewalk. This is a very dangerous thing to do and can cause major harm and possibly death. I don’t think someone has to wait until they are in need of hospitalization to shoot in self-defense, even when the person banging his head against the sidewalk doesn’t have a weapon.

I think if you refrain from banging people’s heads against hard surfaces and similar activities, you will probably be all right. And several other states have laws similar to Florida’s…

Does nobody find it totally ridiculous that a gun-toting vigilante supposedly ended up a victim? So what’s the real reason guys walk around toting loaded weapons if they’re going to end up losing schoolyard fights?

 

[SwizzleStick]

Here’s another source that supports the idea that Zimmerman is not racist and the media got that way wrong.

If only Zimmerman hadn’t gotten out of his truck at all the evening of February 26. If only. So much loss for so many people…

"Zimmerman’s family: George handed out fliers, protesting police coddling of white suspect

George Zimmerman handed out fliers at black Sanford churches a year ago, outraged that a white police lieutenant’s son, captured on video sucker-punching a homeless black man, was not arrested on the spot, family members said.

The fliers urged people to attend a Sanford City Commission meeting and demand that the police chief be held accountable."…

Blue excerpt from: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-05/news/os-george-zimmerman-fliers-20120405_1_sherman-ware-justin-collison-robert-zimmerman

 

[seekerz]

Wonderful post.
Thank you so much.

YW.

 

[seekerz]

Here’s another source that supports the idea that Zimmerman is not racist and the media got that way wrong.

If only Zimmerman hadn’t gotten out of his truck at all the evening of February 26. If only.

"Zimmerman’s family: George handed out fliers, protesting police coddling of white suspect

George Zimmerman handed out fliers at black Sanford churches a year ago, outraged that a white police lieutenant’s son, captured on video sucker-punching a homeless black man, was not arrested on the spot, family members said.

The fliers urged people to attend a Sanford City Commission meeting and demand that the police chief be held accountable."…

Blue excerpt from: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-05/news/os-george-zimmerman-fliers-20120405_1_sherman-ware-justin-collison-robert-zimmerman

He may not be racist; I’ve always thought that was neither here nor there, because you don’t have to be racist to profile - which I believe, based on the 911 call, is what he did.

 

[Dawnia]

Does nobody find it totally ridiculous that a gun-toting vigilante supposedly ended up a victim? So what’s the real reason guys walk around toting loaded weapons if they’re going to end up losing schoolyard fights?

What you claim is a schoolyard fight is assault in the real world.

There goes that superpower theory again. Guns don’t give anyone superpowers to fend off attacks…I think you have to have tights or something to accomplish that.