Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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Havard said:
Can’t we all just agree that we hope that all aspects of the case are thoroughly investigated, and that we all hope for a just conclusion? 🤷
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That’s all I’ve been asking for.

Unfortunately there is so much emotion in what little knowledge people have, it’s almost impossible to even suggest it.
 
catharina said:
Of course - who hasn’t?
Yet signifying “colors” apply in very few neighborhoods.
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I live in a nice suburb and yes it happens here. It could happen in yours. Sometimes we see it and sometimes we don’t.

Young people are great imitiators of style sometimes with no intent of what that style represents.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
He beat Zimmerman to the ground, according to the witness.
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And according to his girlfriend, he was nervous because some strange guy was following him. He was being followed by a strange man with a gun down a dark street, and they started fighting. Under the Stand Your Ground laws, Martin can use whatever force he thinks is necessary to defend himself (which highlights a problem with the laws, since Zimmerman can argue the same thing, and you can make a case that they were both legally entitled to kill each other, which is far from a desirable outcome).

This assuming that the witness is accurate.
 
Namwalker said:
I live in a nice suburb and yes it happens here. It could happen in yours. Sometimes we see it and sometimes we don’t.

Young people are great imitiators of style sometimes with no intent of what that style represents.
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Young people are very aware of gang colors and what they signify.
If a problem ever arises locally, they are warned in school, often by the local police.
 
Namwalker said:
Have you never heard of gang colors? Red Blue Bloods Crips

In many of our cities this is prevalent. You don’t have to be paranoid to suspect danger.

Hoodies are non-threatening but they are also use to conceal identity. If you act like a gangster you will be treated like one. It’s your choice.
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You must have seen Geraldo’ commentary. 🙂
 
bbarrick8383 said:
That’s all I’ve been asking for.

Unfortunately there is so much emotion in what little knowledge people have, it’s almost impossible to even suggest it.
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Very odd. I don’t recall your having said that.
Will you refresh my memory, please?

Your response was to this:

***Originally Posted by Havard
Can’t we all just agree that we hope that all aspects of the case are thoroughly investigated, and that we all hope for a just conclusion? ***
 
catharina said:
Trayvon was speaking to his girlfriend on the phone.
He told her that he was being followed. Is that sufficient???
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I think you have to believe her as much as you believe the eye witness, “John.”
Lujack said:
And according to his girlfriend, he was nervous because some strange guy was following him. He was being followed by a strange man with a gun down a dark street, and they started fighting. Under the Stand Your Ground laws, Martin can use whatever force he thinks is necessary to defend himself (which highlights a problem with the laws, since Zimmerman can argue the same thing, and you can make a case that they were both legally entitled to kill each other, which is far from a desirable outcome).

This assuming that the witness is accurate.
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Did he know that Zimmerman was armed? Do we know when Zimmerman pulled his weapon?
 
Havard said:
I’m generally aware of the politics of Taiwan, but I’m not following the connection to my comment.
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This was the famous statement of agreement between Communist China and the Repuiblic of China (Taiwan). Left unsaid was who was the legitimate government of China.
 
Lujack said:
And according to his girlfriend, he was nervous because some strange guy was following him. He was being followed by a strange man with a gun down a dark street, and they started fighting. Under the Stand Your Ground laws, Martin can use whatever force he thinks is necessary to defend himself (which highlights a problem with the laws, since Zimmerman can argue the same thing, and you can make a case that they were both legally entitled to kill each other, which is far from a desirable outcome).
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I think this is a legal claim that would not find support in the law. If, say, Martin has survived and claimed that he beat Zimmerman to the ground because he was suspicious of him he would likely have been denied the claim of self defense even under the most liberal interpretaiton of Florida’s law. Even Zimmerman’s defense hinges on the claim that Martin attacked him; he could not have shot Martin merely because he was suspicious of him.
 
Havard said:
Yes, but what does that have to do with this discussion?
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You said:
Havard said:
Can’t we all just agree that we hope that all aspects of the case are thoroughly investigated, and that we all hope for a just conclusion?
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There are quite obvoiusly very different opinions as to what would constitute a just decision in this case.
 
maryjk said:
I think you have to believe her as much as you believe the eye witness, “John.”
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lol

So some girl who wasn’t even there and has no proof that she was even on the phone with her boyfriend is just as good as an eye witness?
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Martin was within his right under the Stand Your Ground law to use whatever force necessary to defend himself from Zimmerman. I think most reasonable people would fear for their life and instinctively defend it after being followed by a strange man, chased, then approached by this man brandishing a loaded gun.
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There is a 9-11 call where Zimmerman is telling the operator that martin is coming toward him.
They fought for several minutes (9-11 calls)… so doesn’t sound like he was chasing him and brandishing a gun.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
You said:

There are quite obvoiusly very different opinions as to what would constitute a just decision in this case.
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I cannot fault people for getting impressions based upon the evidence that the media has leaked. I myself certainly confess to having some negative impressions toward Mr. Zimmerman’s conduct.

That said…

No one should be drawing conclusions about what would constitute a just decision until the investigation is complete and the state and defense present their arguments. People should be convicted by a jury of their peers in a fair trial, not in the court of public opinion.

We should pray that the parties responsible do their jobs well, so that we may get to that place.
 
Calgar said:
lol

So some girl who wasn’t even there and has no proof that she was even on the phone with her boyfriend is just as good as an eye witness?
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Not only some girl that wasn’t even there, but someone that has a stake in the claim she is making.

What I meant was, that ANY witness needs to be questioned and their statements backed up by evidence.

One would think that if she was on the phone, she would have said something to someone. In addition that there should be evidence showing she was on the phone and for how long. Since Martin would have been on a cell phone.
 
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