Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[Bubba_Switzler]

State for sure. These are teenage kids. And if it gets to the point where that also seems to be an issue? Then yes the feds should step in.

So you are asserting that all deaths involving minors should be handled by the state and not the city or county where the death occured? Are chidlren drowned in swimming pools to be referred to state investigators?

And what constitutes an “issue”? When a black minor is killed by a non-black? Or will every gang slaying now become a federal case?

This is the problem with forming opinions from individual cases that the mob chooses to focus on for political reasons.

So much for subsidiarity.

 

[GaryTaylor]

So you are asserting that all deaths involving minors should be handled by the state and not the city or county where the death occured? Are chidlren drowned in swimming pools to be referred to state investigators?

And what constitutes an “issue”? When a black minor is killed by a non-black? Or will every gang slaying now become a federal case?

This is the problem with forming opinions from individual cases that the mob chooses to focus on for political reasons.

So much for subsidiarity.

Not at all Im talking about racial profiling in the town’s where a youth is shot. Slightly different spin in Fla with Zimmernan.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Not at all Im talking about racial profiling in the town’s where a youth is shot. Slightly different spin in Fla with Zimmernan.

I think you’re attempting to paint a veneer of respectability on mob rule. And what happens when the state arrives at the same conclusion and the mob is unsatisfied?

 

[GaryTaylor]

I think you’re attempting to paint a veneer of respectability on mob rule. And what happens when the state arrives at the same conclusion and the mob is unsatisfied?

Well the mob becomes part of the death. I don’t contribute to it or support it. I support peace and proper investigation. Now if proper investiagion fails? From what I see here the State automatically gets involved.

 

[pnewton]

State for sure. These are teenage kids. And if it gets to the point where that also seems to be an issue? Then yes the feds should step in.

This is one thing I do not want to see. Unfortunately, political justice is usually more injust that what it attempts to redress. When politicians send in the police, they tell them what they expect to find, so they always find it, even if they have to make it up. I have personally seen this happen. It is why I do not trust the FBI as far as I can throw an elephant.

I think it is a shame that the local police have proven so wimpy. I earlier called turning the information over to the Grand Jury a cop-out, and not just for the pun. I think this is a crisis situation for them and the leadership of this department folded like a house of cards, stepping down from responsibility even before he actually stepped down.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Well the mob becomes part of the death. I don’t contribute to it or support it. I support peace and proper investigation. Now if proper investiagion fails? From what I see here the State automatically gets involved.

Your concept of “failure” of investigation entails arriving at a result at odds with the will of the mob.

From the evidence available, there is no reason to think that the original investigation was in any way a “failure”. There is no reason to think that a jury would find Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the available evidence.

If you want trial by mob, that’s another matter.

 

[GaryTaylor]

This is one thing I do not want to see. Unfortunately, political justice is usually more injust that what it attempts to redress. When politicians send in the police, they tell them what they expect to find, so they always find it, even if they have to make it up. I have personally seen this happen. It is why I do not trust the FBI as far as I can throw an elephant.

I think it is a shame that the local police have proven so wimpy. I earlier called turning the information over to the Grand Jury a cop-out, and not just for the pun. I think this is a crisis situation for them and the leadership of this department folded like a house of cards, stepping down from responsibility even before he actually stepped down.

True, thats a total mess there.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I think it is a shame that the local police have proven so wimpy. I earlier called turning the information over to the Grand Jury a cop-out, and not just for the pun. I think this is a crisis situation for them and the leadership of this department folded like a house of cards, stepping down from responsibility even before he actually stepped down.

I don’t judge them so harshly. Who wants to be the target of a mob?

I think we have to come to terms with the fact that some victims are more equal than others.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Your concept of “failure” of investigation entails arriving at a result at odds with the will of the mob.

From the evidence available, there is no reason to think that the original investigation was in any way a “failure”. There is no reason to think that a jury would find Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the available evidence.

If you want trial by mob, that’s another matter.

Whos talking about mobs? And I never spoke about Zimmerman going to court. All I stated is he should have been arrested immediately.

 

[Lujack]

I don’t judge them so harshly. Who wants to be the target of a mob?

I think we have to come to terms with the fact that some victims are more equal than others.

Yes. Had it been Martin who shot Zimmerman, it wouldn’t be a national news story…but Martin would be in jail right now.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Whos talking about mobs? And I never spoke about Zimmerman going to court. All I stated is he should have been arrested immediately.

You don’t arrest someone unless you have reason to think a crime has been committed. Otherwise that is false arrest and opens the up to a lawsuit. At each step of the investigation the police (and later DA) had reason to believe that there was no crime.

 

[GaryTaylor]

A crime was commited a kid was shot to death with a Ice Tea and Bag of Skittles.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

A crime was commited a kid was shot to death with a Ice Tea and Bag of Skittles.

That is not the legal criteria of a crime. Althought the mob may be unconcerned with justice, the police and DA must abide by the law in choosing whether or not to arrest and prosecute. The evidence suggested that there was no crime. So they did not arrest or prosecute.

 

[GaryTaylor]

That is not the legal criteria of a crime. Althought the mob may be unconcerned with justice, the police and DA must abide by the law in choosing whether or not to arrest and prosecute. The evidence suggested that there was no crime. So they did not arrest or prosecute.

Depends what state your in. Not so here. I understand the Fla mess. I’m of the opinion he should have been arrested. Maybe there wouldn’t be that mob you seem to be so concerned with then.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Depends what state your in. Not so here. I understand the Fla mess. I’m of the opinion he should have been arrested.

Whether or not to make an arrest is at the discretion of the police. Whether or not to prosecute is at the discretion of the DA. Their decisions are based on the evidence before them. To allege otherwise in this case is to make a baseless accusation against them.

There is no reason to think that a jury would find Zimmerman guilty. And if that is obvious to the DA he will not prosecute. And if it is obvious to the police they will not arrest.

Maybe there wouldn’t be that mob you seem to be so concerned with then.

Yeah, if the authorities would have done what the mob willed then the mob would be satisfied.

When the authorities fail to do what the mob wills, things get ugly.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

This is not intended to sound as racist as it does but the fact of the matter is if zimmerman were black this would NOT have the outcry it does. It’d just have jesse jackson shaking his head. But since it was a white man who killed a black youth, jesse’s out for blood. Zimmerman’s self defense plea will fall through since they have him on tape saying he was following Mr. Martin. Once the police told him to stop, and he continued doing so, then it became murder. Even if Mr. Martin attacked him in that scuffle the lead to the tragic shooting, it would not absolve Mr. Zimmerman of guilt. He was out for blood and he found it. But now Mr. Jackson (and presumably Al Sharpton at some point) are out rallying angry african americans everywhere to cast out this white devil. Personally I find that the most upsetting, that rainbow push coalition is taking advantage of the death of a young man for publicity and to push its own agenda. Why are they not on tv daily condemning the black on black killings in chicago that happen in the dozens every single night? Why stay relatively silent until a white man is the shooter and THEN stir up the rallies for justice? Mr. Martin did not deserve what he got, Mr. Zimmerman deserves life without parole. God will sort it all out in the end. No point dragging anyone else into it. Leave it to the courts and to God.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The specifics of the case are a homicide was committed, there is one suspect. He’s the shooter, its a known. He didn’t get arrested because of the county ordinance, which he was in violation of. The ordinance I believe was valid.

Now depending what your state your in, you would be completely wrong. Since there is no self defense in many states. So the body and circumstances would have equaled an arrest.

 

[maryjk]

This is not intended to sound as racist as it does but the fact of the matter is if zimmerman were black this would NOT have the outcry it does. It’d just have jesse jackson shaking his head. But since it was a white man who killed a black youth, jesse’s out for blood. Zimmerman’s self defense plea will fall through since they have him on tape saying he was following Mr. Martin. Once the police told him to stop, and he continued doing so, then it became murder.

You know what he was thinking when he followed Martin? You might want to let the police know.

Even if Mr. Martin attacked him in that scuffle the lead to the tragic shooting, it would not absolve Mr. Zimmerman of guilt. He was out for blood and he found it.

Again, you knew what Zimmerman was thinking? He WANTED to kill someone? He was out for blood? Or are you just guessing?

But now Mr. Jackson (and presumably Al Sharpton at some point) are out rallying angry african americans everywhere to cast out this white devil. Personally I find that the most upsetting, that rainbow push coalition is taking advantage of the death of a young man for publicity and to push its own agenda. Why are they not on tv daily condemning the black on black killings in chicago that happen in the dozens every single night? Why stay relatively silent until a white man is the shooter and THEN stir up the rallies for justice? Mr. Martin did not deserve what he got, Mr. Zimmerman deserves life without parole.

So you, in your mind, have tried, convicted and sentenced him? Does he not get a jury trial? A judge?

God will sort it all out in the end. No point dragging anyone else into it. Leave it to the courts and to God.

That is the first thing you have said that has made sense.

 

[Lujack]

I think it is in some ways ironic that Zimmerman’s defenders urge us to be patient, leave things to the professionals, let them handle it…had Mr. Zimmerman taken their advice on the night that he shot Trayvon Martin dead, had he listened to the advice of the 911 dispatchers and left things to the police instead of trying to be a vigilante…Trayvon Martin would have arrived at his girlfriend’s father’s house safe and sound.

Instead a boy is dead.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The specifics of the case are a homicide was committed, there is one suspect. He’s the shooter, its a known.

Homicide is not always a crime. The police only arrest when they have reson to believe that a crime was committed.

He didn’t get arrested because of the county ordinance, which he was in violation of. The ordinance I believe was valid.

Now depending what your state your in, you would completely wrong. Since there is no self defense in many states. So the body and cirumatsnaces would have equaled an arrest.

All states have self-defense. Even Europe still has self defense. The definitions and criteria vary.

No new evidence has come to light which would suggest that the police or DA made the wrong decision. If new evidence were to come to light that suggested Zimmerma commted a crime then the police could still make an arrest.