Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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The fact that self defense can be proven in court doesn’t mean that it can only be decided by a judge and jury. That is a simple logical error on your part. (But at least you are no longer claiming that there is no self defense in CT.)

That is not what the evidence indicated to the police and DA who acted on their legitmate discretion.
Their discretion is questionable since the department has a very recent history of racism.

Again,
Repeating Post # 704. Clear indication that
the Sanford Police Dept created its own history of racism:

The “step aside” by the chief and prosecutor raise more questions.
This police department was buried to its throat just over a year ago
when the son of a lieutenant was let go after he (white) brutally beat
a homeless (black) man. So things would have been - except that a
video existed and proved the son’s guilt. The Sanford PD created its
own very recent history of racist behavior.
 
Since all legitimate neighborhood watch programs seem to recommend
that volunteers carry no weapons while acting as volunteers, it’s hard to fault
anyone who might be inclined to label Zimmerman as a wacko.

At the very least, his approach is NOT the recommended approach.
Of course his approach is not the recommended approach. I don’t know anyone here that says that Zimmerman SHOULD have followed Martin.

That does not mean that EVERYONE who carries concealed is “mildly wacko.” And that is what at least one person here has said.
 
And if anyone of you were following me for some distance down a dark street, and I wasn’t sure who you were, and you were possibly armed, and I feared for my safety…I might turn around and attempt to defend myself.
Wasn’t sure who the person was? Must everyone who uses the same street that you do identify himself to you?

Possibly armed? Possibly?

Feared for your life? Because someone uses the same street that you do after dark??

Turn around and defend yourself? A little old lady coming back from church would frighten you?

Where do you live? I mean it. Where is it that is so dangerous? I’ve lived in Brooklyn, NY and have been out after dark, even after midnight, and I don’t walk one step away from wetting my pants because I heard footsteps. Sheesh! 🤷
 
Of course his approach is not the recommended approach. I don’t know anyone here that says that Zimmerman SHOULD have followed Martin.

That does not mean that EVERYONE who carries concealed is “mildly wacko.” And that is what at least one person here has said.
If someone said that, that person is still
entitled to his/her opinion on the matter.
 
So again…the police and prosecutors are always right? I have the highest respect for police officers, but I’m not about to concede to them perfection.

As I see the facts in this case, they clearly justify a trial. That’s an opinion. You see that there is not enough evidence to weigh in either way-that is also an opinion. Someone else might see that the evidence clearly exonerates Zimmerman. This is also an opinion.

But apparently my “clearly justify a trial” opinion is equivalent to a lynch mob in some people’s eyes and sinful in others, while the “Zimmerman walks” and “Nobody knows, nobody should express an opinion” opinions are the only Christian/rule of law options available.
I am saying that I am not going to get into the game of speculating until the police conclude their investigation and the attorney presents findings to the grand jury.
 
I am saying that I am not going to get into the game of speculating until the police conclude their investigation and the attorney presents findings to the grand jury.
My attitude exactly. We have too many Sherlock Holmeses on this Forum; let’s leave it to the authorities.
 
Of course his approach is not the recommended approach. I don’t know anyone here that says that Zimmerman SHOULD have followed Martin.

That does not mean that EVERYONE who carries concealed is “mildly wacko.” And that is what at least one person here has said.
Also perfectly clear is the fact that Zimmerman
instigated the death through his determined “following.”

No following, no confrontation, no death of a child.

So simple.
 
Wasn’t sure who the person was? Must everyone who uses the same street that you do identify himself to you?

Possibly armed? Possibly?

Feared for your life? Because someone uses the same street that you do after dark??

Turn around and defend yourself? A little old lady coming back from church would frighten you?

Where do you live? I mean it. Where is it that is so dangerous? I’ve lived in Brooklyn, NY and have been out after dark, even after midnight, and I don’t walk one step away from wetting my pants because I heard footsteps. Sheesh! 🤷
I think you misunderstand me here-I’m talking about Trayvon Martin’s position. Zimmerman by all accounts was following him in the car for some distance, then got out and approached him. He called his girlfriend and said that someone was following him in a way that made him feel uneasy.

I walk around after dark all the time and there are people behind me and I feel perfectly safe. On the other hand, I’ve never been trailed by a car for some distance (and I mean clearly trailed, to the point that I called someone to say “This person is following me!”) and had the person get out and approach me.

I’m not saying I’m always paranoid that people are behind me, I’m saying that I could be in a suburb that hasn’t had a murder in 50 years and that particular sequence of events would have me on edge.
 
Well perhaps we should see how its plays out, the facts at least what the media would like everyone to hear are out.

The attormeys are all quiet now, so we’ll see.

But to answer your question about 911 “if” I call 911, and they told me “NOT to pursue” …the suspect who "looked like he “might” be up to something, or as the Orlando Sentinal quoted Zimmerman, and also; “These a–holes always get away with this stuff” Then I would have waited for the Police.

Second of all “IF” I had a firearm on me, I wouldn’t be out playing pretend cop. I avoid all violence and suggest HIGHLY the same to everyone around me. Its a tool of the ignorant.

Finally “if” I did find myself in that situation, I doubt it would have came out anything like that horror show. First of all as the man turned and approached me IMHO I would have already been informing him of the shot about to come with certaintly in my voice. Now if he was so foolish to continue? Well he would caught a bullet in the leg for sure. And that 911 dispatched would then have been in need of a ambulance. But you see he would be alive, and the self-defense would then really be justified. But hey if “IF” was a fifth we’d all have a toast 👍

How a man “so called nieghborhood watch man with a “record” and handgun” allows someone to walk up on him and wind up with a broken nose, after following him and knowing your looking for trouble? Well the first sign you found what you were looking for is the 17-yo rounding and was heading for you. 🤷

Point being, I would say, if you didn’t know what in the world you were doing? Well you know what, perhaps you should try fishing.

Let alone the 911 dispatcher had what 25 previous calls from this guy which were “false alarms” Seems to me crying wolf is not healthy.

And as the story unfolds the senerio just gets more bleak daily. District Attorney resigned, IMHO how in the world this guy is in this situations to begin with is astounding. A record and a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Wheres that legal? :confused: And out playing cop? Well, thats a bit extrodinary of rme. but hey we’ll work with it. Then, then, knowing all this, when push finally comes to shove after 25 previous 911 call and of course you still don’t listen to them, what the heck right? Self Defense:thumbsup: Then Superman panics gets his rear end whupped while trying to get out his firearm, probly had the safty on without a bullet in the chamber. Still squeeze’s off a couple, huffing and puffing and beat up, while taking that beaten in a postion he should have IMHO never been in. 🤷

Oh I could see it all now. A Class A Horror Show.

I’ll tell you what, you don’t have to look for trouble in this world. Rest assure it will find you. And “if” by some chance you do not want to participate? Well I would stay out of the kitchen least it should get Hot.

And if you insist? Well I suggest you actually have a clue what you are doing, sounds like the most healthy path to me? But hey what do I know?
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmm … first I heard that from you.
Did I miss an earlier statement when you stated that?
I’m too lazy to find where but I’ve certainly made that point before. I don’t know of anyone who defends Zimmerman’s choice to disregard the 911 advice and confront Martin.
Also perfectly clear is the fact that Zimmerman instigated the death through his determined “following.” No following, no confrontation, no death of a child.
So simple.
The mere fact that you have identified a mistake by Zimmerman that was a necessary cause of the outcome does not place the legal burden on him.
 
If the claims by defense attorney Craig Sonner, that Zimmerman’s nose was broken and that he required stitches to the back of his head can be proven, I think it casts this case in a whole new light.
 
I’m too lazy to find where but I’ve certainly made that point before. I don’t know of anyone who defends Zimmerman’s choice to disregard the 911 advice and confront Martin.

The mere fact that you have identified a mistake by Zimmerman that was a necessary cause of the outcome does not place the legal burden on him.
However who would or could trust an “investigation” by police
who were SO recently mired in their own racist behaviors?
I wouldn’t trust them in this circumstance.

Come what may, Zimmerman intiated this horror, not the child he killed.
 
If the claims by defense attorney Craig Sonner, that Zimmerman’s nose was broken and that he required stitches to the back of his head can be proven, I think it casts this case in a whole new light.
The new light can not erase Zimmerman’s intial actions and decisions,
such as ignoring the words of 911-staff, “We don’t need you to follow him.”

A child was killed.
If the child inflicted some injuries on the rogue-follower,
still the rogue-follower is alive to stalk another child on another day.
 


The mere fact that you have identified a mistake by Zimmerman that was a necessary cause of the outcome does not place the legal burden on him.
Did the innocent child cause the outcome, his own death?
He too probably wished to live another day, even many more years.

No stalking (done against police advice) no encounter, no shooting, no dead child.
 
If the claims are true, what should Zimmerman have done ? Allow Martin to continue beating him ? How many punches should he be required to take from the child, who by some accounts was 6-3.
 
If the claims are true, what should Zimmerman have done ? Allow Martin to continue beating him ? How many punches should he be required to take from the child, who by some accounts was 6-3.
What Zimmerman SHOULD have done was NOT BE THERE.
Zimmerman should have listened to the 911 staff and NOT followed the boy.
Zimmerman had all the “wisdom” a gun gave him and none of the good sense to LISTEN.
 
Did the innocent child cause the outcome, his own death?
He too probably wished to live another day, even many more years.

No stalking (done against police advice) no encounter, no shooting, no dead child.
Would 911 have told Trayvon to attack a man that he suspected of following him?
 
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