Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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maryjk said:
Me, too. But in a different way.

You post was in response to a poll that showed how many high school students break the law by smoking pot.

I hold them in the same contempt that I hold Catholics who know it is wrong but use ABC anyway.

Wrong is wrong, it doesn’t matter how many people do it.
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Actually my response was specifically to the opening lines:

"The deceased young man did not have a juvenile police record. None. That means he was gunned down in the street without ever having been arrested for a crime, and you think this is OK? Would you say the same if someone had gunned down your son after an altercation resulted because your son was chased by a beefy 28 year old with a gun who thought your son was a “real suspicious-looking guy”? "

One dead boy.
I don’t like it.
 
EasterJoy said:
This post makes me want to throw up.
Unarmed people don’t deserve to get chased or shot for walking in strange neighborhoods. I’m not saying it is impossible that Zimmerman will be found to have acted within the boundaries of existing Florida law, because the law gives a lot of latitude for “self defense”. I am saying it is not a lot to ask that people who shoot other people without witnesses be put under arrest until a judge or at least a DA decides it is safe to have them back out “on patrol”. That should not be a police decision.
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Good afternoon, EasterJoy,

Texas law requires PD to interview a shooter. Your request for summary arrest I find radical and hysterical to the extreme. The shooter is innocent until found guilty by a jury of his or her peers.

I think people who claim guns are evil, no one should have a gun, those people are more dangerous to my life, rights and liberties than any body with a gun.

Yes, it is asking too much to put under arrest until a judge or DA decides it is safe. That is best left in the hands of the PD, and let the PD submit their recommendation.

God loves you,
Don
 
57classic said:
Which is exactly why it is a month later and George Zimmerman was not and has not been arrested. The police know more about this than the MSM, bloggers, posters and protesters combined. They did not have to release all their evidence and now it will make no difference to those who are looking for a reason to hate.
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Fact 1: One man shoots another man, killing him. You know who the killer is. That alone should be an arrest on the spot. You clear up self-defense claims later.

Fact 2: Killer was armed, victim was not.

Fact 3: Killer pursued victim, victim did not pursue killer.

It might help to leave race out of this and just focus on the facts. One man, armed, pursues another man, unarmed, then shoots and kills him. That’s PLENTY for an arrest.

The fact that the victim used marijuana in the past is entirely irrelevant. Heck, it probably wouldn’t even be relevant if he was CARRYING marijuana at the time.
 
catharina said:
Actually my response was specifically to the opening lines:

"The deceased young man did not have a juvenile police record. None. That means he was gunned down in the street without ever having been arrested for a crime, and you think this is OK? Would you say the same if someone had gunned down your son after an altercation resulted because your son was chased by a beefy 28 year old with a gun who thought your son was a “real suspicious-looking guy”? "

One dead boy.
I don’t like it.
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I understand your position. I’m not really sure how the incident changes because Martin was a year short of 18. Of course it’s tragic that he was young and had a life in front of him but what if Martin was 18? This incident would still be a hot button one because of how race was interjected. You make a valid point. As well though, would you call a 17 year old who busted up your face a “child?” I don’t think I would be saying a child broke my nose. May the Lord welcome Trayvon into the Kingdom Of Heaven if it be his will.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
Fact 1: One man shoots another man, killing him. You know who the killer is. That alone should be an arrest on the spot. You clear up self-defense claims later.
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Its a “fact” someone should be handcuffed, treated as a criminal, and bilked out of thousands by lawyers and courts for defending themselves? My oh my.

The police handled this professionally and correctly under Florida’s sensible self-defense laws.
Fact 2: Killer was armed, victim was not.
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Actually, killer didn’t use gun until he was pinned and pummeled. “Victim” tried to take gun and was shot in the process. This has been proven by the full magazine being unable to cycle…because someone was grabbing the slide.
Fact 3: Killer pursued victim, victim did not pursue killer.
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Wrong again. Killer abandoned “victim” and was leaving by getting into his vehicle when “victim” attacked him while was on the phone with 911.

You might wanna check the definition of “fact”…amazingly enough its not your baseless conjecture. Who’d a thunk it?
 
johnnyjones said:
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut Don. Please keep in mind that many refuse to BELIEVE anything but their own interpretation of events in this case. This is the quandry we find ourselves in. With an outlook of that nature it will be a difficult journey for all concerned.
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Good afternoon, Johnny,

Well, you’re right. There are people who hold tenaciously to their opinions. My stand (opinion) on this is open to correction as more facts come in.

God loves you,
Don
 
I can’t get over this was in Washington DC today with a hearing, and Al Green speaking.😃

Then they had a Congressman from N-Hampshire on to see if maybe their laws in anyway resembled Fla. Which are tighter with justified homicide and deadly force. He said, I checked the Fla statistics since the start of the shoot first law and homicides have tripled since then:confused: However I have no idea how homicides have increased state to state.
 
Geist said:
Its a “fact” someone should be handcuffed, treated as a criminal, and bilked out of thousands by lawyers and courts for defending themselves? My oh my.

The police handled this professionally and correctly under Florida’s sensible self-defense laws.

Actually, killer didn’t use gun until he was pinned and pummeled. “Victim” tried to take gun and was shot in the process. This has been proven by the full magazine being unable to cycle…because someone was grabbing the slide.

Wrong again. Killer abandoned “victim” and was leaving by getting into his vehicle when “victim” attacked him while was on the phone with 911.

You might wanna check the definition of “fact”…amazingly enough its not your baseless conjecture. Who’d a thunk it?
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Your right.
 
I agree with Classic57, it’s been over a month now, and the Sanford police, who have more details of this case than all of us combined, still have not come up with probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman. And that in despite of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama’s recent comments on the case.
 
SamH said:
Actually “Fact 3” is not a fact and contradicts the eye witnesses that saw Martin stalk and attack Zimmerman.
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Yup, little off on that fact. What do they different facts on different web sights? I only watched the news, I haven’t read any web sights on this mess.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I can’t get over this was in Washington DC today with a hearing, and Al Green speaking.😃

Then they had a Congressman from N-Hampshire on to see if maybe their laws in anyway resembled Fla. Which are tighter with justified homicide and deadly force. He said, I checked the Fla statistics since the start of the shoot first law and homicides have tripled since then:confused: However I have no idea how homicides have increased state to state.
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Florida’s homicide rate was 5 murders per 100,000 in 2005 when the law passed and is now 5.2 murders per 100,000 people. The Stand Your Ground law passed in 2005. Apparently the congressman is mistaken.
🤷

deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state
 
Seamus_L said:
I agree with Classic57, it’s been over a month now, and the Sanford police, who have more details of this case than all of us combined, still have not come up with probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman. And that in despite of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama’s recent comments on the case.
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Do they even have a court date for the probable cause hearing? The news said “some time in the next few weeks”.
 
Geist said:
Its a “fact” someone should be handcuffed, treated as a criminal, and bilked out of thousands by lawyers and courts for defending themselves? My oh my.

The police handled this professionally and correctly under Florida’s sensible self-defense laws.
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Derrrrrr… no. Obviously not what I said.

I said he should be arrested for admitting to shooting and KILLING another human being.

Since you like to play the hyperbole game: whatever your opinions about him, this boy actually was a human being.
Actually, killer didn’t use gun until he was pinned and pummeled. “Victim” tried to take gun and was shot in the process. This has been proven by the full magazine being unable to cycle…because someone was grabbing the slide.
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Killer pursued victim after placing a call to police.

Why did the killer pursue the victim after placing that call? I guess he was really worried about what the kid might be doing with his skittles? And that was such a major threat that he couldn’t wait for the police to arrive?

In other words, killer had no reason to pursue. None.
Wrong again. Killer abandoned “victim” and was leaving by getting into his vehicle when “victim” attacked him while was on the phone with 911.
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You might wanna check the definition of “fact”…amazingly enough its not your baseless conjecture. Who’d a thunk it?
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Unbelievable.

Have you even read the transcript?. Killer was stalking the victim. By the end of the 911 call, the confrontation hadn’t even begun. (Well, beside the killer stalking him.)
 
catharina said:
I know that God loves me. I know too that I have suggested (repeatedly) all posters pray for both individuals and both families. For obvious reasona (?) I would never live in TX or FL. I won’t even visit there.

PS - I worked for the Dept of Defense during Vietnam.
I’ve worked, at times, for the Dept of Justice since then.

God bless you.
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Hi, catharina,

Well, I think we all can determine whether or not a person is a child or an adult for ourselves. If somebody contests our determination, and brings us to court, then and only then may the court decide whether our determination was lawful and accurate. That’s the beauty of our free country … no “thought police”, but allowed to act responsibly.

Nah, rape victims don’t beat a rapist’s face to all bloody nor smash the same man’s head against concrete sidewalks … that’s what the rapist, not the rape victim does, since you want to pursue this line of reasoning.
And, I think Geraldo, since he’s germane to our discussion, was wrong to apologize.

Thank you for your prayers and yes I will add all these people to my prayers.

God loves you,
Don
 
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